PeteHski

An illusion for you maybe, but for me there are a few features that make a real difference. There is a whole spectrum of road bikes from aero race right through to gravel. There is plenty of overlap between them too. Race bikes have adopted some of the features of earlier endurance bikes such as disc brakes and wider tyres, but now endurance bikes have evolved further in that direction, overlapping more and more with gravel bikes. The Look 765 for example.

So what are you proposing here exactly? I still don’t get it.

mstateglfr 

The comments you bolded are on topic. You have been dismissive and insultong in this thread, misinterpreted comments by multiple posters, and moved so many goalposts, that me pointing all of it out is on topic.
You opened the door, don't be bitter if someone else walks thru.
If you actually wanted to know why people like their endurance bikes, you wouldn't have started with the biased and fully formed views you made in the first post, and you wouldn't belittle features and differences that some people find beneficial.

mstateglfr 

But what if someone doesn't fit the race bike and does fit the endurance bike? Is the endurance bike still BS marketing to you?

I would not fit well on a Specialized Tarmac. The sl8 in 61 has 612mm stack and 408mm reach. Between that low stack and 52mm of trail, that bike straight up would not fit me well as I would be too hunched over with too much weight in the front end to enjoy the steering.
It would be OK for 10 miles and be a stupid fit for the rest of every ride.

Meanwhile, the Roubaix sl8 geometry in size 61would fit much better. 665mm stack and 403mm reach would mean I am not nearly as over the front end and the 54mm of trail would likely be really fun for steering input.


The same thing goes for the Allez Sprint vs the regular Allez. The 61 Allez would be something I could fit while the 61 Allez Sprint does not have geometry that would fit me.



But hey, you are the frame fitter so you know best. It's all a marketing scam and I should ride just quietly accept ill fitting bikes.
Absurd.

tomato coupe

So, it took 5 pages to establish that the OP doesn't like the term "endurance bike." Awesome.

Kontact 

Nope. That you don't need a bunch of specialty features to sit up on a road bike ride.

tomato coupe

I think this falls under the category of "tilting at windmills." Good luck with your quest.

SoSmellyAir

I think Kontact may also be against Trek Isospeed and Specialized FutureShock.

mstateglfr 

Cannondale Synapse. 73.4deg hta and 56mm trail. https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bik...napse-carbon-4

Canyon Endurace. 73.25deg hta. https://www.canyon.com/en-us/road-bi...nfarbe=BK%2FBU

Giant Defy. 73deg hta and 58.6mm trail. https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/defy-advanced-1-2024

What are the specialty features in these bikes that you hate so much?

It seems like the actual issue is you have an irrational hate for the comfort suspension/absorption features from Trek and Specialized.
There are a ton of endurance bikes that don't have 'speciality features'.

Kontact 

That kind of technology goes really well with 23c tires and frames made of metal rather than highly malleable composites.

Kontact 

Apparently it wasn't clear to you: We're done. Bye.

scott967

What I remember is they marketed the RS as "endurance" then they got rid of the RS and announced the new R as geometry for both race and endurance. I think this was more in line with BMC and maybe Scott. Compare to Spesh Roubaix which went to the extreme end of stack/reach.

SoSmellyAir

No worries, I was against them too; that was why I bought a Cannondale Synapse.

Eric F 

In my experience actually riding a Trek with an Isospeed joint at the seat tube-top tube intersection, I have found that it goes really well with a hardtail MTB. I know some folks that appreciate it with their gravel bikes, too.

genejockey 

What are we, like 5 pages into this nonsense?

"Mom! Tell him I'm not talking to him!!"

genejockey 

I wonder - all those people who post on here about wanting a more upright position, or thicker gloves or bar tape, or a cushier saddle - are they just imagining their discomfort? Has Big Bike poisoned their minds so that they believe they want something that nobody really wants.

Kontact 

Those also sound like excellent uses.

Kontact 

This post is at least on topic, but when has anyone suggested that people shouldn't be comfortable?

And what does that have to do with long wheelbase composite bikes with 32mm tires?

Eric F 

Why would it be less excellent on a road bike intended/marketed for long rides?

Kontact 

As I mentioned several times, because the bike already has a composite frame and large, low pressure tires, and is being ridden on the road. But they do add weight, require service, makes noises and cause problems.

Not an MTB. Not an aluminum frame. Not a gravel bike. Not a skinny tire bike.

Eric F 

In my experience, not all paved roads are smooth all the time. Lots of bike parts require service and cause problems. If a bike has larger tires, it’s probably likely that the rider isn’t so concerned with having the lightest possible bike, and comfort is a bit more important to that person.

What I’ve learned in this thread is that an “endurance” road bike isn’t the right choice for you. I understand. It isn’t for me, either. However, I know some very good and very experienced riders who appreciate the modified fit for the way they prefer to ride. These are folks who understand the subtleties, and know what they are doing.

tomato coupe

More specifically, Big Head Tube.

t2p

Big Head Tube related to Head Shok ?

Kontact 

That may well be. But none of those folks you mention have showed up here and been able to articulate why they need or prefer a long wheelbase to do the riding they are doing.

PeteHski

I can see the point that with wider tyres, those suspension features become less desirable on a road bike and actually very few modern endurance road bikes include them anyway. The Roubaix is pretty unique and still relevant for those few riding on cobbles or any really rough roads.

I almost bought a Roubaix, but decided in the end that I didn’t really need a front shock and the Canyon Endurace was much cheaper. But I still have no doubt that the Roubaix would have made an excellent fast endurance bike for mixed UK roads. All the compliance in my carbon seatpost and bars is equivalent to about 5 mm of suspension travel. Add in a few more mm from 30c tyres and it’s still far from the 20 mm Futureshock travel. Do I need 20 mm travel? No. Would it be nice to have at times? Yes.

PeteHski

I prefer a longer wheelbase for high speed stability. One of my two endurance bikes (Defy) is about an inch longer than the other (Endurace) and it is more stable on high speed descents. There is no obvious downside to the longer wheelbase either for the riding I do. The longer wheelbase is a preference rather than a necessity, but that applies to most bike related features.