American Euchre

Opinions =/= facts. You can't dismiss facts as a "technical argument" and rely on subjective opinions without any evidence to support them.

American Euchre

Controlling for rider weight, hydraulics do not stop any sooner than rim brakes on alu rims, in dry conditions.

They stop a bit sooner in wet conditions.

A heavier rider will take longer to stop compared to a lighter rider.

However, a heavy rider will not stop any sooner by switching from rim brakes to hydraulics on dry roads.

American Euchre

Your points are spot on. I don't think you need to use the qualifier however. Rim brakes with alu rims stop as well as hydraulics in dry weather, FOR EVERYONE, not just for you.

Also, there is plenty of evidence showing clipless are less efficient than standard platforms. I use both. I use clipless on longer rides. I use platforms for shorter rides with a lot of traffic where I would have to clip/unclip a lot otherwise with clipless.

I don't pretend that clipless are functionally superior in any way, or that they make me faster. It's just a road cycling convention that I follow.

Biker395 

Hey ... I'm the one agreeing with you!

Well, except for the notion that discs stop a bit sooner in wet conditions. I'd say the improvement is more than just a bit ... it's substantial.

American Euchre

I wish we had a comparison test. GCN attempted it, but with carbon rims for rim brakes. This obviously will skew the results heavily in favor of discs.

Siu Blue Wind

Why can't we just let people be happy with what they feel best with? It's their opinion just as you have yours.

eastbay71

When vintage frames start coming with discs I'll get a set. So maybe like in 25 years I'm thinking.

FirstSarnt

For me clipless works. My feet are always in the right place on the pedal for power application, I can bunny hop the bike over obstacles, I can apply power through all 360 degrees of my pedal stroke or at least completely unload the rising pedal, and I can stand up when needed without thinking about if my foot is securely on the pedal. My mountain and touring pedals are dual purpose (platform one side/SPD the other) for when the terrain gets dicey and I may need to dab or even bail in a hurry, but when hustling down a bumpy trail I like knowing that the bike will go where I do and vice versa. My road bike has Look Keo for most of those reasons.

My road bike has calipers for lightness. My mountain and touring bikes have wider wheels and tires and carry much heavier loads through all kinds of weather and riding conditions and are stopped by hydraulic discs. I have also read several accounts of rims that needed replacement during cross country rides because the cantilever brakes - the other brake of choice for heavily loaded bikes with big tires - caused failure or near failure of the rim and/or tire because of the heat generated by braking at high speed under load and the wear on the braking surface.

My 2000 model hardtail aluminum mountain bike with v-brakes weighed 28 pounds. That was replaced by a 2007 model with dual suspension and hydraulic discs that weighs 29.5 pounds. I weigh 215, so the 1.5 pound difference is inconsequential. I'm not dismissing anything, merely stating what works for me. If there was nothing subjective in selecting equipment we would all be riding the exact same thing.

Kindaslow

Any chance you could keep a close eye on this thread and tell me who wins?

big john

There have been a number of disc brake threads on the road forum. They are always full of anti-disc emotion, dogma, and expert commentary.
I've not owned a disc braked road bike but there have been many times when rim brakes seemed inadequate. I'm over 200 pounds and there are some steep, twisty descents (Westlake Blvd, Balcom Cyn, Deer Creek) where I would like a little more.
Also, I've done mountain riding in the rain when my rim brakes were so bad I had to drag them constantly to try and keep some stopping power. Of course, the thick, black aluminum slurry gets all over everything, including the rider.

Let's not forget that road discs are still in early developement, they may get lighter, stronger, better as time goes on.
We should try to keep an open mind, remember how funky early mtb suspension systems were?
Remember how awful some early Campagnolo rim brakes were?

American Euchre

Why can't we just be happy with the facts and let the facts speak for themselves?

Why is it necessary to hyperbole, fear-mongering and exaggerated unfounded claims without any evidence to back it up?

Why can't we just stick with facts? The facts are the same, regardless of opinion.

Siu Blue Wind

I think you are perhaps the fear mongering one. So I suggest you leave this thread please so everyone can post their opinion freely without un necessary backlash. Thank you.

American Euchre

No one's receiving any "unnecessary backlash." I'm simply pointing out that fraudulent, fear mongering statements such as "rim brakes cause death" or that they are "vastly superior" are without any basis in fact.

If we want to talk facts (many disc supporters don't apparently), then let us discuss the hazards of discs:

SRAM Recalls Hydraulic Bicycle Brakes Due to Crash and Injury Hazards | CPSC.gov

Siu Blue Wind

So you're not leaving this thread?

PaulH

Rim brake pads wear out and have to be changed. When I used rim brakes, a set was good for a month during the winter. Snow got in and inhibited braking. Once the rims wear out, it's $500 to build my dynohub into a new wheel. Fail. Drums, in contrast, go a year or more (3,000 miles) between service intervals. For me, the bike has to meet or exceed my car in convenience, dispatch reliability, and service intervals or no point in riding.

Biker395 

My buddy got some video of the brake failure/crash, so I thought I'd share it with everyone for the pucker effect.

This descent is STEEP, and the very steepest, most difficult section is a hairpin turn. I did this ride back in 2009, and I still remember that turn. The wide angle perspective of the GoPro doesn't do it justice. He knew of the turn, and was being very careful descending into it ... then his brakes failed ... and at the worst possible time.

The sound track masks the comments he and his stoker made near the end ... but you can imagine what was said.

Start the video at about 4:00 and behold the meaning of true terror. lol

Kindaslow

Has anybody won yet? You are supposed to let me know. Then, I will know which bikes to sell and which bikes I should keep!

rydabent

It would seem that anyone buying a new bike or frame would make sure it is fitted with caliper mounts. Like it or not disc brakes are the thing of the future.

Loose Chain

No more like the new CF that in time will be just another fad. Maybe.

I prefer rim brakes though I can see the appeal in the MTB/ATB world. Road, uh, no.

But, everyone can do as they wish and will, matter not to me as long as I can buy rim brake bicycles. You know, LPs disappeared over night and the new CD took over. Now, people are buying LPs again. Some things can be improved, some cannot.

It is my opinion, they are ugly, heavy, complicated and in most uses offer no advantage sufficient to outweigh the negatives not to mention they do outweigh rim brakes. I guess if I strap a JATO bottle to my axx and launch myself down a mountain incline I might want for something more than a rim brake that can already exceed the g load needed to endo a bike.

BlazingPedals

All the velomobile drivers I know prefer drum brakes. I would want a drum drag brake on a tandem. I'm happy with disc brakes on the front of my lowracers and rim brakes on the rear. I like the light weight of rim brakes on my highracer (but I know I have to be REALLY careful in the rain.) There's a moral somewhere in this post.

Siu Blue Wind

I think we all win.

Kindaslow

Agreed, given we get to buy our bikes with the brakes we want, the color we want, etc....



And, we have life sooooo good that we get to argue over something like this!!!

jfarwell

[QUOTE Am I missing something? And have disc brakes become a lot better than five, six years ago? Does it make sense to get the disc brake model of a given bike like the Sirrus or the Trek 7.x series or the Giant Eclipse for normal riding conditions?[/QUOTE]

Great question. We have two tandems. One has newer ultegra calliper brakes. These are absolutely great, and the rear one actually works better than the disk that came on the brake. My only reservation is that 700 *28 mm tires just fit. Our other bike has tpr spyre disk brakes. I don't think they actually stop us quicker, but they work with our 650b * 42 mm tires. Overall, if not for the tire clearance matter, I would stick with rim brakes.

GeneO 

They stop a lot faster than rim for me in dry weather. Modern disc aren't that heavy when you consider you don't need that thick braking rim (at least for alloy wheels). And the weight is concentrated at the axis of the wheel where it doesn't matter as opposed to the braking rim at the edge of the tire, where weight matters more.

GeneO 

A rider on a downhill in the TDF this year had the rim brake heat up the rim so much that the glue holding the tire on melted, the tired rolled off going around a corner, and the rider went down. A teammate grabbed the tire and burned his hand