babie_lato

Dear Bike Community,

I'm planning to buy a used mixte and restore it: replace components for best ones I can afford and maybe paint the frame. I'm going to use the bike daily to commute through hilly Zürich. My priorities are:
- possibly good quality frame and components
- simple and elegant look
- as light as possible (I know lightness and mixte are contradictory words but as I understand there are different frames and some are extremely heavy and some are just heavy...)

I'm 179cm (5'10") so from what I understand I would need a frame around 57cm (which is a bit challenging to find since most of them are smaller...).

For now I'm searching on eBay etc. for brands such as Koga Miyata, Univega, Bianchi, Hercules and Motobecane... I stopped looking for Peugeots since I read on this forum that they are usually (although very pretty) rather low quality. Am I missing anything? And my main question to you: How do I recognise from pictures / description whether a frame is a good quality and light?

I'm prepared to spend on the whole thing up to EUR 800.

I would appreciate any thoughts!

Warm greetings from Switzerland,
Maja

squirtdad

Welcome,

this thread may of interest https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-throughs.html

there are a number of European based members who will probably comment and provide more eurocentric input

You are pretty correct in that high end (light) mixtes are rare and mixtes in your size are rare.

For a start, higher quality frames have forged drop outs, derailler hangers. Look for labels that indicate the tubes are chorme moly and double butted. tube brands like reynolds 531, Tange, Columbus. the frame will look neat and clean anyplace you see a joint.

Rocket-Sauce 

Paging Bianchigirll
BianchiGirl, one of our more knowlegeable members, knows first hand what you are looking for...

non-fixie 

Welcome, Maja!

To start with the question that needs the most elaborate answer, how to recognize quality, have a look here: My Ten Speeds - Bicycle Quality. We'll be happy to answer any questions you may still have after you have finished reading that.

WRT size, two brands that I'm familiar with and made nice mixtes in larger sizes (catering to an audience of tall Dutch women) were Koga-Miyata (various models, up to 58cm) and Gazelle, who made a mixte version of their Champion Mondial semi-race model in sizes up to 60cm. Expect both the Gazelle and the Koga to weigh close to 13kg.

If it doesn't have to be a mixte per se, than you might also want to look at Méral. They made a version of their Modèle Déposé frame in Columbus SL and in 58cm:

repechage

Large mixties of great quality do exist. They are few and far between.
Bertin made them, so did Hetchins. As did some others but they will blow up your price target.
So might the Hetchins, save that what you are looking for is a low demand item in style and size.
A brand out of Belgium, The Dura, also made nice examples.
As you mentioned Euros- check the various European classified sites.
Unless you have winning Lotto luck, it will take a while but they are out there.

merziac

Classic mixtes can be very challenging to find, especially upper end models.

Motobecane is my recommendation for a focused search, they seem to come up more often and they are very nice.

Here is my wife's example and it wasn't cheap but didn't break the bank either.


1978 Grand Touring and while not a pure "mixte" it is a fine example.

Raleigh's show up as well but less often, for more money and IMO not the same quality in general.

I would encourage you to be on the lookout for Centurion, Panasonic and any other solid Japanese marque from the same era, many brands were made by the same supplier's and are excellent quality, especially for the money.

Velognome 

Hetchins...find a Hetchins

WGB 

Assuming you're in Europe?
Raleigh Superbe might be nice and should be lots over there.
Oops! Just saw Zurich and might need more than a 3 speed.

dedhed

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ppy-place.html

Wildwood 

Puch made 23" (58cm) mixte for the USA market..
The model Michelle, for AustroDaimler branded frames, was an early 80's HiTensile steel bike.
In that large a size the frame and fork weight is likely around 9-10 pounds (4 - 4.5kg).

I do not know if they were widely available in Europe, but include Puch in a search.
There was a mixte version of the AD Vent Noir in 531 tubing.
This image from '76 catalogue.

Wildwood 

Soma make a mixte in 58cm. Model is Buena Vista. In USA the price is $550 for frame and fork, disc version extra.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/cat...ames-mixte-842

JaccoW

Every manufacturer that made higher quality frames usually also made lower-quality frames so excluding a manufacturer based on that is tricky.

There should be enough higher quality mixtes in or around Zurich but the best way to find out if it's a high-quality frame is to look what kind of tubing it uses.
Reynolds 531, Colombus and Hardtlite FM tubing are all higher-quality Chromoly steel tubes but they came in different levels of quality and lightness.

Over here in the Netherlands I can suggest some models by Gazelle (like the Gazelle Lausanne that I built up for my girlfriend last year) but the most iconic one is the Gazelle Champion Mondial.

If I check our local eBay I can see the following:

• Koga-Miyata RoadMixed - 57cm, double butted aluminum frame
• Koga-Miyata Country Tourer Lady - 56cm but drum brakes are probably not ideal in the mountains. This would require a bit more technical know-how to turn into something that would work for you though.
• Gazelle Champion Mondial - 58cm, classic bike

babie_lato

Thank you very much everyone for such informative responses! I will read through the My Ten Speeds guide and extend my search for the brands you mentioned. Hopefully soon I can share my finds with you.

Hetchins doesn't seem to exist in Switzerland, Bertin is also very rare... After your recommendations I'm leaning now towards Motobecane (merziac, your wife's bike is so beautiful!) and Koga Miyata and definitely add Puch and Panasonic to my search.

I will keep checking for Reynolds 531, Colombus and Hardtlite FM tubes, but on most bikes it doesn't say . I think with all the shipping and custom duties costs importing Soma Buena Vista to Switzerland isn't really worth it... Other new chromoly mixte I saw is the Creme Cycles Echo. Not even sure if they sell frames separately. But was curious if any of you had experiences or an opinion about this one?

non-fixie 

The Echo Mixte is a nice bike and light too (11 kg), and even though their biggest is a 55cm, that's easily solved with a long enough seatpost. I guess the important question here would be: do you want a new bike?

Classtime 

I had a heavy Motobecane Grand Touring and assume the Grand Jubile with the 531 is lighter.
https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/b...075335606.html

Earlier ones had the Grand Jubile derailleur s.

mechanicmatt

You should be able to maybe get some Italian options there. Most of all look for tubing stickers, Reynolds 531, Columbus tubing are the two most likely near you, and don't forget sizing that fits you!

Mercian and Bob Jackson in GB likely have some neat designs. Koga Miyata is likely more common in Swiss, also maybe Centurion could still be a popular brand.

jeirvine 

Besides tubing stickers, keep an eye out for a forged dropout with integral derailleur hanger, rather than a stamped dropout without. Randy's My Ten Speeds page gets into it, but simply put:

This:


Not this:

non-fixie 

There are some interesting aspects to international forums, and this is one of them.

Totally different local markets.

I have had a quick look at velomarkt.ch today and I am beginning to understand why a mixte would be cool to a Swiss national. I could not find a single one for sale! OTOH, I did find lots of nice Swiss bikes many Americans would probably love to find in their CL listings.

This pretty Mondia, for instance:



Or this P. Del Po:



Or - my personal favorite - this Villiger "San Bernardino". Made from Vitus 888 tubing. Not cheap at $384 (by my standards anyway) but with the right parts it could be a very nice if-you-could-have-only-one-bike kinda bike:

Wildwood 

Soma bikes = no distributors in EU??? That's a mistake for them.

Clearly, they are not made in USA. Their bikes (maybe other gear) were primarily made in Taiwan in the past. Not sure now.

Vintage should be less expensive (and much more emotionally appealing), but if you want 58cm + disc brakes - i would email Soma.

babie_lato

Actually not, because I love the idea of putting the bike together on my own (well, with some skilled help ) and having exactly the components I like. And I would most likely be painting the frame, because I want a very specific colour and would also prefer to have no logos or writings on it. So it somehow logically makes sense to buy a frame that requires renovation anyway. But the 11kg of the Creme Cycles Echo is so appealing, seems like the lightest mixte ever! But probably other components of the Creme are not so great (especially for the price)? I just thought of buying a used Creme for the frame and replacing the components, or is it completely stupid? Is it possible achieve similar lightness using one of the old chromoly frames you all mentioned?

babie_lato

I think I would still rather go for rim brakes. Although I understand all advantages of disc, rim brakes have always worked fine for me (I don't drive too fast, especially downhill) and I like how simple they look and they are also bit lighter. And I don't mind the limited tire width, since I want to use thin tires anyway. But thank you for the suggestion! If I don't find any vintage chromoly in my size I will definitely e-mail Soma, they also have a version of the frame for rim brakes.

Phil_gretz

I wouldn't discourage you from writing down all of your goals for this bike project, because that's how you begin to differentiate between what's "desired" and what "must be", as well as between what's possible within your constraints, and what's simply not.

You have some difficult goals to meet all-in-one, unless you find a complete bike:
- total cost no more than $800
- larger and lighter mixte frame
- custom paint
- modern selected components

I'm not convinced that all four above can be met. So, where are you willing to back away to a lesser goal? You cannot accept a bike that doesn't fit properly, so the frame size is non-negotiable. The bike must fit.

The modern components may be an area where you can compromise by accepting the bike's existing components if they are in good working order. Or, at least, you can defer this expense to some future date. The brakes must be able to stop you on hilly descents. The range of gearing must allow you to go up the steepest hills and must shift and work comfortably. Tires must be of good quality and in good repair. Saddle comfortable for your distances or time on the bike. Handlebars and controls suit how you want them and can use them easily. Will you be paying someone else to do the mechanical work? That's a cost that must be budgeted also.

Frame color? That's where you may also compromise. Quality paint jobs are expensive, up to 25% of your overall budget. I would not recommend spending that unless all other goals are met and you have cost margin remaining for other sundry items needed to get rolling, like lights, bags, etc.

Anyway, many of us have started out with a project exactly as you are. Just be realistic about things going forward. Good luck and have fun.

babie_lato

Yes, you are right, probably thinking up to $800 for the whole project was not realistic looking at my wishes! I think good way is to initially prioritise getting the large light frame and accept the components as they are. With time, I may gradually exchange them for better ones. I already own a Brooks Cambium saddle which I love and Knog USB-chargeable lights (I found dynamo causing too much lug especially when cycling uphills...) so at least these two components I don't need new. I painted my current frame with a car spray and it costed me $15 but of course after one year it's not looking great. So I'm aware, that to do it properly I will need to invest in powder coating or something like this (still need more research)...


But my questions here are mostly about recognising good frames as this is the base for everything that comes after. And so far I'm really amazed how many informative responses I've received!

After three more posts I will be allowed to include links so I will be happy to share some of my finds (we all love to look at pictures of pretty bikes, don't we? ).

mechanicmatt

...a Basso Womanracer. Which I think is only available in Europe.

babie_lato

Such a beauty ♡! Do you know what the frame of this Basso is made of?
I will definitely add it to my search!


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