Unknown Vintage Dawes
#27
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At the risk of one additional wedgebolt note.
Mentioning this only because you state this is your first cottered chainset.
In this image of the cycle as found it is clear that the chainset's arms are out of registration by > five degrees. This may be due to the wedgebolts being fitted asymmetrically. The convention (to the extent there is one ) is to fit them such that the head leads in the pedaling rotation. Fitting them the other way round can be ok as well if they are pressed in firmly enough. Another possible cause for this symptom is if they have unequal cuts. (one often hears the terms "light cut", "medium cut", & "heavy cut" in relation to wedgebolts.)
The bolts/pins come in three standard diameters. Britain an Japan employ a size termed 9.5mm or 3/8". This is the size to request when you purchase replacements. You want both pins to have not only the same diameter but the same cut so that the arms will come out in registration (180 degree opposition) when everything is mounted.
The new bolts/pins need to be pressed in. It is not necessary to have a costly purpose-built tool for this. A beefy bench vise or large hefty C-clamp can work just fine. Something such as a socket from a socket tool set must be placed over the backside of the cotter hole in the crank arm protect the threaded portion of the pin during the process. The nuts on the pins are there only in a retainer/keeper capacity. They are not intended as installation aids.
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At the risk of one additional wedgebolt note.
Mentioning this only because you state this is your first cottered chainset.
In this image of the cycle as found it is clear that the chainset's arms are out of registration by > five degrees. This may be due to the wedgebolts being fitted asymmetrically. The convention (to the extent there is one ) is to fit them such that the head leads in the pedaling rotation. Fitting them the other way round can be ok as well if they are pressed in firmly enough. Another possible cause for this symptom is if they have unequal cuts. (one often hears the terms "light cut", "medium cut", & "heavy cut" in relation to wedgebolts.)
The bolts/pins come in three standard diameters. Britain an Japan employ a size termed 9.5mm or 3/8". This is the size to request when you purchase replacements. You want both pins to have not only the same diameter but the same cut so that the arms will come out in registration (180 degree opposition) when everything is mounted.
The new bolts/pins need to be pressed in. It is not necessary to have a costly purpose-built tool for this. A beefy bench vise or large hefty C-clamp can work just fine. Something such as a socket from a socket tool set must be placed over the backside of the cotter hole in the crank arm protect the threaded portion of the pin during the process. The nuts on the pins are there only in a retainer/keeper capacity. They are not intended as installation aids.
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Last edited by juvela; 07-23-17 at 09:20 PM. Reason: addition
#28
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At the risk of one additional wedgebolt note.
Mentioning this only because you state this is your first cottered chainset.
In this image of the cycle as found it is clear that the chainset's arms are out of registration by > five degrees. This may be due to the wedgebolts being fitted asymmetrically. The convention (to the extent there is one ) is to fit them such that the head leads in the pedaling rotation. Fitting them the other way round can be ok as well if they are pressed in firmly enough. Another possible cause for this symptom is if they have unequal cuts. (one often hears the terms "light cut", "medium cut", & "heavy cut" in relation to wedgebolts.)
The bolts/pins come in three standard diameters. Britain an Japan employ a size termed 9.5mm or 3/8". This is the size to request when you purchase replacements. You want both pins to have not only the same diameter but the same cut so that the arms will come out in registration (180 degree opposition) when everything is mounted.
The new bolts/pins need to be pressed in. It is not necessary to have a costly purpose-built tool for this. A beefy bench vise or large hefty C-clamp can work just fine. Something such as a socket from a socket tool set must be placed over the backside of the cotter hole in the crank arm protect the threaded portion of the pin during the process. The nuts on the pins are there only in a retainer/keeper capacity. They are not intended as installation aids.
-----
At the risk of one additional wedgebolt note.
Mentioning this only because you state this is your first cottered chainset.
In this image of the cycle as found it is clear that the chainset's arms are out of registration by > five degrees. This may be due to the wedgebolts being fitted asymmetrically. The convention (to the extent there is one ) is to fit them such that the head leads in the pedaling rotation. Fitting them the other way round can be ok as well if they are pressed in firmly enough. Another possible cause for this symptom is if they have unequal cuts. (one often hears the terms "light cut", "medium cut", & "heavy cut" in relation to wedgebolts.)
The bolts/pins come in three standard diameters. Britain an Japan employ a size termed 9.5mm or 3/8". This is the size to request when you purchase replacements. You want both pins to have not only the same diameter but the same cut so that the arms will come out in registration (180 degree opposition) when everything is mounted.
The new bolts/pins need to be pressed in. It is not necessary to have a costly purpose-built tool for this. A beefy bench vise or large hefty C-clamp can work just fine. Something such as a socket from a socket tool set must be placed over the backside of the cotter hole in the crank arm protect the threaded portion of the pin during the process. The nuts on the pins are there only in a retainer/keeper capacity. They are not intended as installation aids.
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#29
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Replaced the headset with new bearing and grease. It went very smoothly, pun intended.
Also I took out the BB spindle to re-clean it and check for straightness. Rolled straight. Here are a few pics because I said I would.
Still covered in grease. The bike really is a gentleman's ride; even the spindle is handsome.
Also I took out the BB spindle to re-clean it and check for straightness. Rolled straight. Here are a few pics because I said I would.
Still covered in grease. The bike really is a gentleman's ride; even the spindle is handsome.
#30
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Thanks very much for the update.
Great to read things coming along so well!
Happy to hear cotter pin information was of help.
Have been meaning to ask - what is the marking on the pedal dustcaps? Cannot quite make it out in the photos. I doubt these pedals are original to the bicycle. Would have expected something like an Atom model 440 or similar. Perhaps a previous owner had very wide feet or wished to ride in work boots so they fitted this pedal. Wacky as it sounds, shop mechanics sometimes got requests from riders who wanted to pedal their tenspeeds barefoot and so asked for rubber pedals. If this had happened and the bicycle changed hands the new owner may have had the present set installed.
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Thanks very much for the update.
Great to read things coming along so well!
Happy to hear cotter pin information was of help.
Have been meaning to ask - what is the marking on the pedal dustcaps? Cannot quite make it out in the photos. I doubt these pedals are original to the bicycle. Would have expected something like an Atom model 440 or similar. Perhaps a previous owner had very wide feet or wished to ride in work boots so they fitted this pedal. Wacky as it sounds, shop mechanics sometimes got requests from riders who wanted to pedal their tenspeeds barefoot and so asked for rubber pedals. If this had happened and the bicycle changed hands the new owner may have had the present set installed.
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#31
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Thanks very much for the update.
Great to read things coming along so well!
Happy to hear cotter pin information was of help.
Have been meaning to ask - what is the marking on the pedal dustcaps? Cannot quite make it out in the photos. I doubt these pedals are original to the bicycle. Would have expected something like an Atom model 440 or similar. Perhaps a previous owner had very wide feet or wished to ride in work boots so they fitted this pedal. Wacky as it sounds, shop mechanics sometimes got requests from riders who wanted to pedal their tenspeeds barefoot and so asked for rubber pedals. If this had happened and the bicycle changed hands the new owner may have had the present set installed.
-----
Thanks very much for the update.
Great to read things coming along so well!
Happy to hear cotter pin information was of help.
Have been meaning to ask - what is the marking on the pedal dustcaps? Cannot quite make it out in the photos. I doubt these pedals are original to the bicycle. Would have expected something like an Atom model 440 or similar. Perhaps a previous owner had very wide feet or wished to ride in work boots so they fitted this pedal. Wacky as it sounds, shop mechanics sometimes got requests from riders who wanted to pedal their tenspeeds barefoot and so asked for rubber pedals. If this had happened and the bicycle changed hands the new owner may have had the present set installed.
-----
#32
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I let the BB parts soak in solvent over night and cleaned out the shell with a brass brush. It is great now! I put the crank back on. It took me a couple tries because I didn't not know the pins had to face in opposite directions. I could not get them to line up. A quick read on Sheldon Brown straightened it all out (pun intended).
Put the wheels back on for a few pics.
Put the wheels back on for a few pics.
#33
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Fine job with the spanners and with the camera!
Wellgo is a pedal brand not oft encountered. It hails from Formosa so would not have been OEM on your machine.
Great to read you got the cranks well sorted. Next time you need to work on a set it will go much faster & easier. The Stronglight set on the Dawes is model nr. 52:
"You probably know this already" - having the bottom bracket fittings out of the shell is a golden opportunity to work some rust inhibiting stuff such as FrameSaver into the interior of the tubing:
The Galaxy's GB bar is a bend termed the Ventoux, a fave of mine & numerous other readers:
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Fine job with the spanners and with the camera!
Wellgo is a pedal brand not oft encountered. It hails from Formosa so would not have been OEM on your machine.
Great to read you got the cranks well sorted. Next time you need to work on a set it will go much faster & easier. The Stronglight set on the Dawes is model nr. 52:
"You probably know this already" - having the bottom bracket fittings out of the shell is a golden opportunity to work some rust inhibiting stuff such as FrameSaver into the interior of the tubing:
The Galaxy's GB bar is a bend termed the Ventoux, a fave of mine & numerous other readers:
-----
#35
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"You probably know this already" - having the bottom bracket fittings out of the shell is a golden opportunity to work some rust inhibiting stuff such as FrameSaver into the interior of the tubing:
The Galaxy's GB bar is a bend termed the Ventoux, a fave of mine & numerous other readers:
-----
"You probably know this already" - having the bottom bracket fittings out of the shell is a golden opportunity to work some rust inhibiting stuff such as FrameSaver into the interior of the tubing:
The Galaxy's GB bar is a bend termed the Ventoux, a fave of mine & numerous other readers:
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I am a fan of the these bars too. I really like the artwork.
#37
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Not hardly "done" - not with a couple of ruined cotter pins on a cottered crank he's not. And good luck finding a shop that knows how to fit a cotter in a cottered crank and has the press to do it. They are still out there, but you can't count on every shop having retained the knowledge and expertise. (I had a reputable shop that has hundreds of classic & vintages bikes listed for sale on its web site mess up my DL-1 trying to remove & replace the cotter pins.)
#38
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Not hardly "done" - not with a couple of ruined cotter pins on a cottered crank he's not. And good luck finding a shop that knows how to fit a cotter in a cottered crank and has the press to do it. They are still out there, but you can't count on every shop having retained the knowledge and expertise. (I had a reputable shop that has hundreds of classic & vintages bikes listed for sale on its web site mess up my DL-1 trying to remove & replace the cotter pins.)
#39
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Coming along nicely, @Lovenutz! Those cranks look gorgeous. You'll find that they are nicer than their reputation suggests. They are heavier than their aluminum counterparts, but that weight adds a certain smoothness to the pedaling action that is actually quite pleasant when touring all day.
#40
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I really don't understand the 'cotter angst' on these forums. I live in a country with 17 million inhabitants and 20 million bicycles, and until not so long ago they all had cottered cranks. And before I joined BF I'd never heard of such a thing as a cotter press. I asked a very experienced bike mechanic (Theo, 60 years old) about cotter presses, and he said: "interesting concept. If you find one, I'd like to see it."
I brought my DL-1 in to have the bottom bracket serviced. When I got it back, if I set the cranks horizontal with the right crank forward and then stood on both pedals they gave a few degrees and then "hit bottom." Instead of being horizontal, the cranks formed a shallow ^. Flip them over so left crank forward and they made a shallow V. Stand on the pedals once more, and again the feeling of "giving" and now instead of a V they formed a ^. Not totally unrideable, but damned annoying.
Until "not so long ago" -- actually, that should be written "until around 45 years ago" they all had cottered cranks. And then cottered cranks became obsolete, and mechanics and shops that entered the business since the bike boom look at a cottered crank blankly and ask you "What the **** is that????" and haven't got the faintest idea how to fit a cotter so that it actually holds the crank firmly in place.
Your experience may vary. You may have access to a shop and a mechanic that knows what he's doing. Don't take that for granted.
#41
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You really don't understand? Well then let me explain it to you.
I brought my DL-1 in to have the bottom bracket serviced. When I got it back, if I set the cranks horizontal with the right crank forward and then stood on both pedals they gave a few degrees and then "hit bottom." Instead of being horizontal, the cranks formed a shallow ^. Flip them over so left crank forward and they made a shallow V. Stand on the pedals once more, and again the feeling of "giving" and now instead of a V they formed a ^. Not totally unrideable, but damned annoying.
Until "not so long ago" -- actually, that should be written "until around 45 years ago" they all had cottered cranks. And then cottered cranks became obsolete, and mechanics and shops that entered the business since the bike boom look at a cottered crank blankly and ask you "What the **** is that????" and haven't got the faintest idea how to fit a cotter so that it actually holds the crank firmly in place.
Your experience may vary. You may have access to a shop and a mechanic that knows what he's doing. Don't take that for granted.
I brought my DL-1 in to have the bottom bracket serviced. When I got it back, if I set the cranks horizontal with the right crank forward and then stood on both pedals they gave a few degrees and then "hit bottom." Instead of being horizontal, the cranks formed a shallow ^. Flip them over so left crank forward and they made a shallow V. Stand on the pedals once more, and again the feeling of "giving" and now instead of a V they formed a ^. Not totally unrideable, but damned annoying.
Until "not so long ago" -- actually, that should be written "until around 45 years ago" they all had cottered cranks. And then cottered cranks became obsolete, and mechanics and shops that entered the business since the bike boom look at a cottered crank blankly and ask you "What the **** is that????" and haven't got the faintest idea how to fit a cotter so that it actually holds the crank firmly in place.
Your experience may vary. You may have access to a shop and a mechanic that knows what he's doing. Don't take that for granted.
Cottered cranks were still used on the majority of bikes manufactured here well into the eighties - even expensive ones, and millions of those are still in everyday use:
#42
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What exactly would I need to convert it to down tube shifting?
Also, I'm thinking about getting rid of the seat tube and chain stay decals. Opinions?
Also, I'm thinking about getting rid of the seat tube and chain stay decals. Opinions?
Last edited by Lovenutz; 07-28-17 at 12:52 AM.
#43
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#44
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+1 on keeping the decals.
WRT the DT clamp: I'd expect your shifters to fit the standard clamp.
I just mounted a set of the shorter version on mrs non-fixie's Mercier, as part of an Allvit set-up, but they are otherwise the same:
WRT the DT clamp: I'd expect your shifters to fit the standard clamp.
I just mounted a set of the shorter version on mrs non-fixie's Mercier, as part of an Allvit set-up, but they are otherwise the same:
Last edited by non-fixie; 07-29-17 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Allvit, of course.
#45
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I have a brown '71 Dawes Galaxy. It has yellow gold transfers on the seat tube and the prior owner took up that theme with yellow bar tape. My paint and decals show a harder life than yours, OP, but I like them showing their age a bit. The chrome bits are flawless. It has a Lycee L'Avenir leather saddle, and the gorgeous scrolled bars (which limits how far you can wrap tape but, it's the price of bling. I call this my L'Eroica bike.
#47
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Had been a-wonderin' iffin' you had completed the build on ye olde Randolphian Mercier...
Very fine indeed.
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#48
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BTW, it took me quite some time time to get the transmission working properly, as the old TA chain rings require a 1/8th chain, whereas most modern 1/8th chains are too wide and stiff to play nice with the derailleurs.
#50
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I really don't understand the 'cotter angst' on these forums. I live in a country with 17 million inhabitants and 20 million bicycles, and until not so long ago they all had cottered cranks. And before I joined BF I'd never heard of such a thing as a cotter press. I asked a very experienced bike mechanic (Theo, 60 years old) about cotter presses, and he said: "interesting concept. If you find one, I'd like to see it."
Of course there's a dearth of quality cotters and nut's out there. I value my stash
Last edited by clubman; 07-29-17 at 07:21 PM.