Carbon Wheels & Rim Brake
07-21-23, 05:48 AM
#26
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I have the same super team wheels and have had no issues. 1500 miles on those, and so far just use the supplied pads.
Plan on getting another set but with aluminum braking surface for my other crit bike.
Plan on getting another set but with aluminum braking surface for my other crit bike.
07-22-23, 06:56 PM
#27
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The replies so far seem to lack some crucial info.
For a start, what about tubulars? I'd argue the option is somewhat more relevant when you're considering carbon wheels... You probably already have some pretty reasonable aluminium wheels you can fall back on for more general use, and you're probably looking at something nice and deep for aero, so why not go the whole hog and make them lighter as well? My 50mm wheels are under 1.1kg... Well worth the occasional hassle if only used for riding in nice conditions (lower risk of flats in the dry).
This choice is further supported by consideration of carbon's unsuitability for clinchers. A couple of decades worth of development has made them pretty good, but you're still fighting the characteristics of the material, which is perfectly suited to tubulars.
I realise the OP already has some wheels, but I think the above is worth mentioning in the discussion because tubulars tend to be overlooked as a bit obscure and difficult, but these days you have tape instead of glue if you like, and you can pop some sealant in them if you're really scared of a flat...
Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that not all carbon is created equal, with some manufacturers doing a lot of work not just on epoxy formulations and other aspects of brake track design, but also on the most complementary pad composition for that particular resin. A lot of folks may be inclined to dismiss manufacturer's claims about this stuff as marketing bumf, but as a science and tech fan from way back, I can tell you that the science of surfaces is way deeper than you might guess, and that if the manufacturer of your rims specifies a particular pad, you're fairly unlikely to find one that works better.
I was a bike mechanic up until a few years ago, and the variety in properties of carbon rim braking I experienced was surprising, even when I exclude the textured surfaces.
For a start, what about tubulars? I'd argue the option is somewhat more relevant when you're considering carbon wheels... You probably already have some pretty reasonable aluminium wheels you can fall back on for more general use, and you're probably looking at something nice and deep for aero, so why not go the whole hog and make them lighter as well? My 50mm wheels are under 1.1kg... Well worth the occasional hassle if only used for riding in nice conditions (lower risk of flats in the dry).
This choice is further supported by consideration of carbon's unsuitability for clinchers. A couple of decades worth of development has made them pretty good, but you're still fighting the characteristics of the material, which is perfectly suited to tubulars.
I realise the OP already has some wheels, but I think the above is worth mentioning in the discussion because tubulars tend to be overlooked as a bit obscure and difficult, but these days you have tape instead of glue if you like, and you can pop some sealant in them if you're really scared of a flat...
Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that not all carbon is created equal, with some manufacturers doing a lot of work not just on epoxy formulations and other aspects of brake track design, but also on the most complementary pad composition for that particular resin. A lot of folks may be inclined to dismiss manufacturer's claims about this stuff as marketing bumf, but as a science and tech fan from way back, I can tell you that the science of surfaces is way deeper than you might guess, and that if the manufacturer of your rims specifies a particular pad, you're fairly unlikely to find one that works better.
I was a bike mechanic up until a few years ago, and the variety in properties of carbon rim braking I experienced was surprising, even when I exclude the textured surfaces.
07-22-23, 07:35 PM
#28
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My thoughts - use these CF wheels as race only. Buy a pair of brake calipers for them similar to what you have already with the good CF brake pads. (If you can, get a mechanic to solder the ends of a pair of brake cables cut to run your housings to the brake with a nice inch+ to spare.)
Now, ride your aluminum rims with your bike as is al the time but race day (and maybe the day before to get used to the CF setup again). Then swap both wheels and calipers. Race and swap back. With the soldered cables, the swaps will take 5 minutes and the soldered cables will be able to handle many swaps.
Now, your delicate (rim wear wise) CF wheels will get very limited miles, no wet, gritty or long downhill braking time and will always have the right pads that never see aluminum. Those wheels should last years. The rest of the time you will be on good old aluminum with the right pads and ready for anything, hill-wise and weather-wise. And you won't have to mess with changing pads. (Swapping calipers takes zero skill. Just make sure you snug the front nuts up tight!)
I don't do this. Never owned CF wheels and haven't raced for about a million years. But - that bike of my avatar photo has two "cockpits" (bars, stem, brake levers and calipers. The pair in the photo - my climbing setup. Wide and deep pista bars, huge hooded V-brake levers and powerful dual-pivots. My "road" setup has normal drop bars, regular levers and nice sidepulls. The front brake stays cabled and I just pull it off the fork. For the rear I need to pull the housing out so that caliper gets disconnected every time like I am suggesting for you. With that ancient technology quill stem, the whole swap takes 5 minutes. Turns the bike into a completely different one! Fun! And yes, those soldered cables are a joy.
Now, ride your aluminum rims with your bike as is al the time but race day (and maybe the day before to get used to the CF setup again). Then swap both wheels and calipers. Race and swap back. With the soldered cables, the swaps will take 5 minutes and the soldered cables will be able to handle many swaps.
Now, your delicate (rim wear wise) CF wheels will get very limited miles, no wet, gritty or long downhill braking time and will always have the right pads that never see aluminum. Those wheels should last years. The rest of the time you will be on good old aluminum with the right pads and ready for anything, hill-wise and weather-wise. And you won't have to mess with changing pads. (Swapping calipers takes zero skill. Just make sure you snug the front nuts up tight!)
I don't do this. Never owned CF wheels and haven't raced for about a million years. But - that bike of my avatar photo has two "cockpits" (bars, stem, brake levers and calipers. The pair in the photo - my climbing setup. Wide and deep pista bars, huge hooded V-brake levers and powerful dual-pivots. My "road" setup has normal drop bars, regular levers and nice sidepulls. The front brake stays cabled and I just pull it off the fork. For the rear I need to pull the housing out so that caliper gets disconnected every time like I am suggesting for you. With that ancient technology quill stem, the whole swap takes 5 minutes. Turns the bike into a completely different one! Fun! And yes, those soldered cables are a joy.
07-22-23, 07:47 PM
#29
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The replies so far seem to lack some crucial info.
For a start, what about tubulars? I'd argue the option is somewhat more relevant when you're considering carbon wheels... You probably already have some pretty reasonable aluminium wheels you can fall back on for more general use, and you're probably looking at something nice and deep for aero, so why not go the whole hog and make them lighter as well? My 50mm wheels are under 1.1kg... Well worth the occasional hassle if only used for riding in nice conditions (lower risk of flats in the dry).
This choice is further supported by consideration of carbon's unsuitability for clinchers. A couple of decades worth of development has made them pretty good, but you're still fighting the characteristics of the material, which is perfectly suited to tubulars.
I realise the OP already has some wheels, but I think the above is worth mentioning in the discussion because tubulars tend to be overlooked as a bit obscure and difficult, but these days you have tape instead of glue if you like, and you can pop some sealant in them if you're really scared of a flat...
Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that not all carbon is created equal, with some manufacturers doing a lot of work not just on epoxy formulations and other aspects of brake track design, but also on the most complementary pad composition for that particular resin. A lot of folks may be inclined to dismiss manufacturer's claims about this stuff as marketing bumf, but as a science and tech fan from way back, I can tell you that the science of surfaces is way deeper than you might guess, and that if the manufacturer of your rims specifies a particular pad, you're fairly unlikely to find one that works better.
I was a bike mechanic up until a few years ago, and the variety in properties of carbon rim braking I experienced was surprising, even when I exclude the textured surfaces.
For a start, what about tubulars? I'd argue the option is somewhat more relevant when you're considering carbon wheels... You probably already have some pretty reasonable aluminium wheels you can fall back on for more general use, and you're probably looking at something nice and deep for aero, so why not go the whole hog and make them lighter as well? My 50mm wheels are under 1.1kg... Well worth the occasional hassle if only used for riding in nice conditions (lower risk of flats in the dry).
This choice is further supported by consideration of carbon's unsuitability for clinchers. A couple of decades worth of development has made them pretty good, but you're still fighting the characteristics of the material, which is perfectly suited to tubulars.
I realise the OP already has some wheels, but I think the above is worth mentioning in the discussion because tubulars tend to be overlooked as a bit obscure and difficult, but these days you have tape instead of glue if you like, and you can pop some sealant in them if you're really scared of a flat...
Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that not all carbon is created equal, with some manufacturers doing a lot of work not just on epoxy formulations and other aspects of brake track design, but also on the most complementary pad composition for that particular resin. A lot of folks may be inclined to dismiss manufacturer's claims about this stuff as marketing bumf, but as a science and tech fan from way back, I can tell you that the science of surfaces is way deeper than you might guess, and that if the manufacturer of your rims specifies a particular pad, you're fairly unlikely to find one that works better.
I was a bike mechanic up until a few years ago, and the variety in properties of carbon rim braking I experienced was surprising, even when I exclude the textured surfaces.
07-23-23, 09:41 AM
#30
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have a set of cheap "SuperTeam" carbon wheels on it. Not too light for carbon, but surprisingly stiff. I used the bike to just speed around the neighborhood. But I'm advised that using rim brake on direct carbon wheels is a no-no. The wheels are total carbon, so the brakes apply directly to a carbon surface. I saw a video from a carbon frame expert wherein he opines that the rim brake will wear at the carbon quickly and make it unsafe at some point, maybe when I'm not expecting a failure.
Disc-only rims have no brake track and are specially designed for the extra tension applied to the spoke bed by the torque induced at the hub by brake operation. They also tend to have a different rim edge shape design as there isn't any heat induced tire/tube retention issues and aerodynamic design considerations are prioritized. The absence of heat/abrasion resistant material will mean that applying rim brakes to a non-rim brake rim will very quickly abrade through the comparatively thin material near the rim edge.
07-24-23, 08:54 AM
#31
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For a purpose built crit-only bike I'd go with tubulars as well, and why would anyone care about the wear rate on carbon rims for a purpose built race-day only crit bike?
The typical downsides of carbon rim-brake setups are that they get hot on long descents, and suck in the rain. These attributes might make someone think twice about riding carbon rim brakes on road rides with unpredictable weather and long descents, but no one is going to be heating up carbon wheels during a crit race to the point where tires are blowing off. Wet weather performance is still an issue - I'd probably run alloy wheels for a rainy crit race (ok, I wouldn't race a crit in the rain for any reason becuase I'm just doing this for fun and getting crashed in a corner by a bunch of idiots who've never ridden in the rain seems like a terrible idea, but that's just me).
The typical downsides of carbon rim-brake setups are that they get hot on long descents, and suck in the rain. These attributes might make someone think twice about riding carbon rim brakes on road rides with unpredictable weather and long descents, but no one is going to be heating up carbon wheels during a crit race to the point where tires are blowing off. Wet weather performance is still an issue - I'd probably run alloy wheels for a rainy crit race (ok, I wouldn't race a crit in the rain for any reason becuase I'm just doing this for fun and getting crashed in a corner by a bunch of idiots who've never ridden in the rain seems like a terrible idea, but that's just me).
07-26-23, 06:41 PM
#32
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I’ve raced with cf wheels and rim brakes for the last 15 years and have lived to tell the tale. I’ve yet to wear out a set of rims,
As for performance, overheating, on a single bike, just hasn’t been an issue, including descending in the the French Alps. California Sierra Nevadas, Colorado Rockies, and the shorter but steeper Appalachian mountains.
Today I climbed and descended Mt Mitchell, highest point in the eastern US, with zero issue.
learn good braking technique and overheating isn’t an issue, particularly with newer better cf rims.
I will grant that wet weather brake performance is typically a slight bit worse than most aluminum rims/ pad combinations and noticeably below discs. However, it’s totally manageable with some anticipation and squeeqing the rims.
It all comes down with knowing your equipment and using it appropriately.
As for performance, overheating, on a single bike, just hasn’t been an issue, including descending in the the French Alps. California Sierra Nevadas, Colorado Rockies, and the shorter but steeper Appalachian mountains.
Today I climbed and descended Mt Mitchell, highest point in the eastern US, with zero issue.
learn good braking technique and overheating isn’t an issue, particularly with newer better cf rims.
I will grant that wet weather brake performance is typically a slight bit worse than most aluminum rims/ pad combinations and noticeably below discs. However, it’s totally manageable with some anticipation and squeeqing the rims.
It all comes down with knowing your equipment and using it appropriately.
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You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
07-27-23, 10:25 AM
#33
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I think one issue that isn't be addressed is the issue in buying used carbon wheels. It's hard enough to gauge the true level of wear on anything carbon to begin with but then with carbon rim brake wheels I think most people just don't have the knowledge to fully disclose "how worn" their rim brake surface actually is compared to used disc brakes this isn't even an issue since rotors can easily be replaced
07-27-23, 08:48 PM
#34
Junior Member
I am new to carbon wheels. My recent bike acquisition has carbon wheels with rim brakes. I cycle on flat ground in SW Florida, so no hills (except for overpasses). The brakes work superbly well. I switched out the SwissStop Black Prince brake pads for SwissStop Yellow King and noticed they are much quieter.
Last edited by Biker Pete; 07-27-23 at 09:07 PM.
