ArgoMan

Hi all. You may have seen in other posts that I've been working on my new "concept" or "franken" bike. I switched it over to a 1x and was considering mounting a 105 11-speed rear. But after taking it for a spin yesterday, I decided to stick with the 9-speed setup that I already have. It works well on my roads. I have already ordered a Shimano bar end shifter (9-speed), which I know is pretty quirky, but I'm excited about it. I got to thinking, maybe I should change out the rear derailleur that I have mounted now (Sora 3550) and upgrade to a better 9-speed derailleur. Maybe an older Dura Ace will perform better than what I have? Something along those lines. So, to that end, what are some of the best 9-speed derailleurs I can get? Thanks!

Kimmo

RD-7800 is probably the latest and greatest that will work, if I remember right... I think they changed the cable pull when 11s came along? I know they changed it at 10s for MTB. But before that, you could mix and match as much as you like, except I think 7s and 8s Dura-Ace was different.

I'm only 50% on this though; my knowledge is rusty.

...Yeah, I think that's right: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

curbtender

Deore XT is a great derailleur. Just don't use the shadow.

delbiker1 

If you want, or don't mind, using the bar end in friction mode, which I believe is an option on most Shimano 9 speed bar ends, you can run a 12 speed 1X. I have a Poprad with 6500 ss rear derailleur and brakes, shimano rs-510 crank with just 44t narrow wide chain, 6400 bar end lever using friction, 12 speed 11-34 7100 cassette and 12 speed chain, cane creek cross brake levers. Once I got use to the short lever travel for a gear change, got the limit screws set right, It all works great. I live in a flat, but windy, coastal area. This 1 X set up works great for me. Other than doing a check on it, I believe I have used the 34 tooth cog 1 time, really did not have to. I can easily change the ring and cassette if want, or feel a need, to do that.

calamarichris

If anyone asks if 7700 brifters work spectacularly well with a long-cage MTB Deore XT derailleur and 9-speed cassette, tell 'em yes.

ArgoMan

Thanks for all the replies. I'm looking over the instructions for the bar end shifter (Shimano Dura Ace SL-BS77.) It's specifically for 9 sprockets. The instructions specifically state, "This shifting lever cannot be used with any rear derailleur other than Dura-Ace." What!!?? I don't understand that. I have a more modern Sora derailleur. If the lever pulls the cable, would it not properly activate the derailleur? Is there something I'm missing or is the instruction inaccurate? From delbikers1's reply, it would seem that one can use many different derailleurs with this shifter. Maybe I have to send it back?

Arrowana

At the time Dura-Ace 9-speed was released, it was Shimano's first 9 speed road groupset. They design their parts to function together as a group, and they want to make more money by selling more parts, so from their point of view, it made sense to say that it is only compatible with Dura-Ace because Dura-Ace was the only 9-speed road groupset they offered at the time the manual was being written. But it is a lie. The SL-BS77 will work fine with most Shimano 7 to 9 speed rear derailleurs as long as you use a 9-speed chain and cassette.

Upgrading your derailleur won't have a noticeable impact on shifting performance unless it is worn out. A nicer derailleur would get you a derailleur that is a tiny bit lighter weight, a tiny bit more durable, and maybe a bit more shiny. More noticeable would be a nice quality chain, shift cables, and housing. If you want to use a wider range cassette than what the derailleur is designed for, then you might have a good reason to swap a 9-speed MTB derailleur.

ArgoMan

Thanks, Arrowana. I did some research online after my last post and my inquiry had been earlier addressed on this and other forums. So, I guess I'm okay. You also advised a 9-speed MTB derailleur if I want to use a wider range cassette than what my present derailleur is designed for. I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate? Thanks again!

Arrowana

By converting your bike to 1x, you reduced the range of gearing of your drivetrain. Either your lowest gear isn't as low, your highest gear isn't as high, or both. Depends on the size of chainring you used. If you find yourself wanting a lower gear than the lowest you currently have, you could swap to a smaller chainring, but then your highest gear wouldn't be quite as high. Or you could swap to a wider range cassette where the largest cog is a larger size, and get a lower gear while keeping your higher gear as it currently is. The trade off is there will be a larger gap between each gear, you have a higher chance of one gear feeling too low and the next one feels too high, rather than having a gear that feels just right for the situation.

If you have a Sora 3500 rear derailleur, the largest cog it is designed to handle is 32t. Chances are the largest cog on your cassette is between 28t and 32t. Installing a cassette with a larger cog will give you a lower gear. It might be possible to make the derailleur work with a cassette that has a 34t cog, by turning in the b-tension screw on the derailleur all the way in. If you add something like a Wolf-Tooth RoadLink to the derailleur, it could handle a cassette with a 36t cog. Or you could swap to a MTB derailleur that is actually designed to work with a 36t cog. An example would be a Shimano RD-M593. Or if you want to go with as wide of a range as possible while still being compatible with your new shifters, the RD-M593 with a RoadLink added can potentially work with a cog as large as 42t.

rsbob 

I was going with Ferrari Testarosa, but since you limited it to bikes…..

rsbob 

It’s like going back to 1980s gearing. Retro-cool?

t2p

what’s wrong with shadow ?

( RD-M772 shadow above - shifting is outstanding )

Kimmo

​​​​​​
Nothing, if you have a compatible shifter. Not the same actuation ratio as earlier derailers though, so not backwards compatible. Your bike isn't 9s.

t2p

I’m confused - or possibly you are confused ?

are you confusing shadow with rapid-rise (or something else) ?

the 772 shadow RD pull is 1.7 I believe - ? - same as other Shimano 9 speed

the bike pictured with the 772 RD is a 9 speed

Koyote

I'm running that very RD on my Shimano 9sp bike. Works like a charm, even though it's a ten speed derailleur. Limit screws ftw.

curbtender

I had issues trying to get it dialed in and changed out to an older model. I do see it says its compatible with all nine speed drives. Guess you can try it for yourself.

Kimmo

Okay, like I said, I'm rusty - I remembered wrong; Shadow came out before 10s. Can't imagine why you shouldn't get a Shadow RD in that case.

By the way, if you want more reliable mechanical advice, ask in the Mechanics forum. I haven't been one since the Before Times.

Camilo

False. I used my Shimano 9 speed indexed Dura Ace bar end shifters for many years with both 8 and 9 speed Deore (XT and plain) rear derailleurs.

ArgoMan

Thanks for all the help! I installed my new Shimano Dura Ace SL-BS77 bar end shifter today. I've never done gear work before, but it went really well! The instructions weren't great and without this forum and some YouTube videos, it would have been much harder. But I have it all set up in indexed mode and it shifts really well. The only hiccup is that when I'm shifting up the smallest rear sprocket, it tends to want to skip the next sprocket and move directly to the next highest sprocket. The shifter will "click", but the chain won't move sufficiently. I can see that it wants to move, and does slightly, but wants me to continue shifting so that it jumps a sprocket. I can finesse the lever to prevent this. Otherwise, shifting from the largest to the smaller cog goes smoothly. I think I may try it in friction mode. I like how I speed around and can just slide my right hand down the drop bar and shift with my palm and little finger. Very unique and "old school" feel. Are there any suggestions that you may have regarding the skipping issue or operating in friction mode? Thanks for everyone's advice!

delbiker1 

It sounds like some tuning needs to be done with the barrel adjuster, if the derailleur has one, or getting the limit screws set right. Friction shifting is very forgiving with shifting settings. It does take some time and practice to get the lever throw to become consistently accurate for crisp shifting. If you do not race, occasionally having to tweak the lever a bit to get the gear right, is not a problem. If you are riding and climbing aggressively, it might be an issue. For me, the friction shifting allowing a relatively low cost switch to a very capable 1 X, 12 drive train is a real plus. To me, with a 1 X, 9 gears does not allow for a wide enough spread without big jumps in the gears. Even 11 to 12 makes a difference. With friction shifting, If some one wanted to sometimes switch between 9 to 12 gears, easily accomplished by changing just the cassette and chain.

BTinNYC 

What delbiker1 said; the final adjustment for index shiftering is done with the barrel adjuster.
Park Tool video

ArgoMan

Thanks all! I've been reading up on friction shifting, and I'll tell you what....I'm going with friction shifting! Old school, like on my 1981 Kia 3 speed! It actually seems like the best option. Very forgiving, evidently. Not hard to master. And I typically only use 3 rear gears, if that. In fact, it wasn't until I installed the bar end shifter that I noticed for the first time that my derailleur wasn't shifting into the smallest cog. And, am I right that with friction shifting I can just slap an 11 or 12 speed cassette on and continue to use my 9-speed Derailleur? Is that true or some kind of fantasy that I'm reading about?

calamarichris

I don't know if it's the best, but the sexiest, and coincidentally most expensive 9 speed group I've ever seen is the Shimano 25th Anniversary Dura Ace 7700 group.
It comes in a nuclear-football-style briefcase and with a watch. I nearly bought one about a decade ago when I was making too much money, but realized I'd never be able to install it on a bike and actually ride it. It's just too pretty.






You can still find them on Ebay for just under $5000. Ridiculous, but you did ask which is the best 9 speed of all time, and I figured this deserved a shout-out.

ArgoMan

Holy....look at that thing! That has to be the best ever.

calamarichris

I've seen a few Ebay sellers trying to get a couple hundred bucks for that empty case, and each time, all I could think was, "You never should've mounted those jewels on a mere bicycle."

That 25th groupset came out in the 90s. I wonder if Shimano is introducing (or has introduced?) a 50th Anniversary 19-sp group made out of black plastic?