Tubeless is Immune to Punctures
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Tubeless is Immune to Punctures
A little weary of hearing this.
It is stated often on the forums. Wheel manufacturers even say it.
From https://icancycling.com/collections/...ro-45-wheelset...
Fact check: Tubeless tires get punctures. They are not immune.
The only thing tubeless does is seal the tire after the puncture so it doesn't go flat, maybe.
Semantics?
-Tim-
It is stated often on the forums. Wheel manufacturers even say it.
From https://icancycling.com/collections/...ro-45-wheelset...
Unlike inflatable tires, tubeless options are immune to punctures.
Fact check: Tubeless tires get punctures. They are not immune.
The only thing tubeless does is seal the tire after the puncture so it doesn't go flat, maybe.
Semantics?
-Tim-
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They forgot the "auto" before the immune then the word "deflating" after immune.
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They also contradict themselves on the same page:
"Tubeless tires can provide lower rolling resistance and better protection from punctures."
Just as bad "immune to punctures" is describing a 17.5 ID rim like this - "Wide rim technology offers more stability and rolling resistance."
"Tubeless tires can provide lower rolling resistance and better protection from punctures."
Just as bad "immune to punctures" is describing a 17.5 ID rim like this - "Wide rim technology offers more stability and rolling resistance."
External: 27.25mm
Internal: 17.5mm
Internal: 17.5mm
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that fact that plug kits are selling pretty well seems to indicate that tubeless is not immune to punctures. OTOH, they are a lot better than tubes in this regard.
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100+ hours tubles on mtb 27.5+ no flats (Stans) All in goat head country. Sort it out and do what is best for you.
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Slime and liners. Nothing is forever.
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All of my bikes are tubeless and I would never go back to tubes, but they are far from immune to punctures(flats). That reminds me that I need to order more plugs.
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A little weary of hearing this.
It is stated often on the forums. Wheel manufacturers even say it.
From https://icancycling.com/collections/...ro-45-wheelset...
Fact check: Tubeless tires get punctures. They are not immune.
The only thing tubeless does is seal the tire after the puncture so it doesn't go flat, maybe.
Semantics?
-Tim-
It is stated often on the forums. Wheel manufacturers even say it.
From https://icancycling.com/collections/...ro-45-wheelset...
Fact check: Tubeless tires get punctures. They are not immune.
The only thing tubeless does is seal the tire after the puncture so it doesn't go flat, maybe.
Semantics?
-Tim-
It is a fact that most humans have eight toes. It is also a fact that most humans have ten toes.
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Tubeless tires are immune to neither flats nor punctures.
-Tim-
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I'm sure I got a couple of punctures during the MTB race yesterday. I didn't notice, since I was running tubeless.
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I was told tubeless doesn't get flats. My experience mountain biking in arizona disproved that.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
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I was told tubeless doesn't get flats. My experience mountain biking in arizona disproved that.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
I have never used Slime, but have used Stan's and Orange Seal for the last 6 years on 4 of my bikes. The only flat I have had with tubeless was a 2 cm cut in a sidewall. That is mostly mountain biking and gravel rides. I have had a number of flats on my road bike which I still run with tubes.
Tubes are a pretty dependable, relatively easy to use system, and I still need to carry them in case of a big cut that will flat any system But for me personally, I spend more time riding and less time fixing flats with tubeless.
Last edited by bikeaddiction1; 01-28-19 at 01:25 PM. Reason: fis a typo
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I was told tubeless doesn't get flats. My experience mountain biking in arizona disproved that.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
I was told slime inside the tire would seal punctures. My experience disproved that as well.
The purpose of the green slime was apparently to highlight the puncture point by squirting green goo out of the tire at that point. In that way it worked I guess, but since it was tubeless and there was green slime, the fix was to put a tube into the tire.
If people like tubeless that's fine, but I'm not dropping a few thousand to switch from tubes to tubless.
It costs nowhere near a few thousand to make one bicycle Tubeless. I only have tubeless on about half my bikes, since I have a few non-tubeless rims. I did setup tubeless on one bike with non-tubeless rims. Might do my plus bike also, even though it has non-tubeless rims.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 01-28-19 at 03:01 PM.
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My tubeless experiment got set aside when I slammed one of my Schwalbe One Pro tires on a rock, and ripped the cover and tore a few cords. Not enough to totally compromise the tire, but enough that I could get it to seal sitting still, but it would leak as soon as I started rolling again. And, of course, I waited a couple of hours, but coudn't take a couple of days off of the bike in the middle of a ride.
I'll try Pirelli tires this coming summer.
I'll try Pirelli tires this coming summer.
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As for Stan's, Orange Seal and Slime tubeless sealants, their formulation my be different but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have problems. You have to ask yourself why do you need to "refresh" the sealant? Where does it go? How can a tire that is sealed to air lose a liquid? And, finally, why go through the mounting hassle of tubeless? Why not just use the sealant in a tube? Life would be much easier the way.
Perhaps PaulRivers is overestimating the cost but by how much would depend on what you have and what you want to do. If you have old rims, that's a new set of wheels. That gets pricey quickly. Or, as in my case, you have multiple bikes and converting all of them would be prohibitively expensive. Or, again as in my case, you don't have a compressor. Yes, I know that some people can seat tubeless with a hand pump but it doesn't sound as easy as a compressor.
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This guy, Stuart Black, seems to think he knows: "After a lot of head scratching and MSDS reading (Oh joy!) and a lot of chemical and material hand waving, I came to the conclusion that the sealant, which has a glycol base, is passing through the rubber and out of the tire."
And that gets us nowhere towards an explanation.
First, I've been involved in some mounting of tubeless tires. I wouldn't say it isn't a hassle for most folks. It seems to take a lot of time, effort, and a considerable amount of mess at my local co-op.
But one thing that the people who fear pinch flats seem to forget is that pinch flats are a symptom of a far worse problem. If the tire bottoms out so as to pinch the tube between the rim and whatever surface you are on, the rim is going to hit that same surface. I'm far less concerned about pinch flats than I am about rim damage. One costs a few pennies to fix and just a little bit of time while the other can cost 10,000 or more pennies and a whole lot more time to fix.
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Last edited by cyccommute; 01-29-19 at 09:00 AM.
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A few thousand dollars? Maybe if you are going to buy new high end tubeless rims to do it. Most better quality bikes come with tubeless ready rims, and often tubeless ready tires. My last mountain bike came set up tubless from the factory. Tubless set up kits for two wheels typically are under $75 (and that's Canadian dollars, less in the US).
Whether it's a few thousand for a new bike or a few hundred for new wheels, the exact cost wasn't my point, I don't see the motivation personally to spend any money on it. My experience has not shown it to be an improvement.
I have never used Slime, but have used Stan's and Orange Seal for the last 6 years on 4 of my bikes. The only flat I have had with tubeless was a 2 cm cut in a sidewall. That is mostly mountain biking and gravel rides. I have had a number of flats on my road bike which I still run with tubes. Tubes are a pretty dependable, relatively easy to use system, and I still need to carry them in case of a big cut that will flat any system But for me personally, I spend more time riding and less time fixing flats with tubeless.
Sometimes new marketing hype comes with improvements...sometimes it's just empty hype. My experience leaves me leaning towards that tubeless is mostly hype. I mean tubeless works "fine" I'm not saying anyone "shouldn't" use it but it is extra work and a little messier and in my (limited) experience it's flat prevention is no better than a decent flat resistant tire with a tube in it.
Last edited by PaulRivers; 01-29-19 at 11:41 AM.