mattdd60

How do I go about finding a place to xray my carbon fiber frame?

It looks OK, but I just want to be sure.

Barrettscv 

When in doubt, throw it out.

An xray might cost more than a replacement frame.

FBinNY 

I don't believe that an X-ray will give you any useful information. The airline industry had a similar problem with the tails of Airbus A-300s after the crash involving a damaged rudder. At the time it was determined that there was no conclusive, non-destructive way to test the structural integrity of the tails on the remaining fleet. The technology has improved since then, so you can search for materials testing labs in your area, but odds are a replacement frame may be cheaper.

My advice is to do an honest risk assessment based on the information you have. You definitely want to be more conservative with forks, and the head of the frame, but can afford a higher risk at the Bottom bracket, or rear triangle since the consequences of failures there aren't likely to be as serious.

fietsbob

Are you any where near Area 51? and do you have the security clearance
to get in the front Gate?


OR , can you find a University materials science Lab with a Scanning Electron Microscope ?

unterhausen

scanning electron microscope might be a good idea because you have to cut the frame up into little bitty pieces to use it

kamtsa

Do a google search. For example, these people say they can x-ray it

https://www.carbonframerepair.com/ind...on-fiber-bike/

rydabent

fbinny

This is a little of subject here, but what you say about Airbus's is correct. Many pilots wont let their families fly on them. Give me a titanium frame any day if you want a premium frame.

Cinqovitto

With the advent of film-less digital x-ray imaging, the actual cost of imaging is greatly reduced because there are no actual consumables (film, processing fluid etc.) One of the doctors at the hospital where I work as an x-ray technologist drove into his garage with his carbon fiber bike attached to his roof rack (attached by front forks). It broke the rack and bent the overhead door. There is no visible damage to the bike. Paint is not cracked anywhere so we decided to xray it. The images are reduced quality due to exporting/conversion to jpg but show no evidence of fracture or delamination. The steer tube images are taken at 0 , 45 and 90 degrees of rotation, repeated twice using different technical factors (kV and mAs because I was unsure what settings would work best). I took multiple images on each cassette because it is easier than flipping through images when viewing. My next plan is to do some destructive testing to the point of failure and then xray it to see what it looks like.

Andrew R Stewart 

I've always wanted a borescope for checking out the insides of a frame. problem is the ones with a tiny camera end diameter (with light too) are the real $ ones. Andy.

Earl Grey

What FB said about the difficulty of inspection may be true, but avoiding the composite aircraft in current Western passenger service has no basis in reality. Certainly, anyone who considers flying in a composite transport-category aircraft unacceptably risky would be horrified by the thought of riding a bicycle.

rydabent

In the case of the Airbus, it was a combination of a weak tail, and poor programming of the flight computer. But they blamed the pilot in the cover up.

So I guess if a CF bike shatters, we will just blame the cyclist.

02Giant 

Fixed...

Looigi

A limitation of x-rays is that the image is generated by the total x-ray intensity lost due to absorbance along a line from the x-ray source to the film or digital sensor. The decrease in intensity is the same for a solid layer or several layers of the same total thickness and material, so something like delamination wont' show.

Earl Grey

In AA587 the NTSB said that the design of the rudder systems was contributory, and recommended that the FAA look at modifications to both the airplane and the certification standards. There's no question that the co-pilot performed a maneuver the airplane was never certified to withstand (unless you think that the FDR data was fake). If that was a 'cover up' they did a terrible job.

Almost every type has had accidents. My point stands that avoiding currently-flying airplanes because they are composite has no basis in the safety record.

Wileyone 

What about an MRI?

snotrockets

Airplanes frames are different, due to stress factors and carbon layouts, so while an X-ray may not work for finding a court-held evidence for airplane fault, it may be enough for verifying if a bike is OK. I know Canyon published they put used frames through CT scans (which is x-ray).

The tip I got once, that unless you have access to a hospital facility (most don't), the trick is finding a cyclists-friendly vet, and ask to use their X-ray with the same parameters as for the collarbone of great Dane dog.

MRI won't work, because you can't have any ferromagnetic material in an MRI scanner. So it'd break the frames if it's not 100% non-ferrous (so embedded metal sleeves or races are a no-no in MRI). Also, it works by exciting hydrogen atoms in the water inside the body: won't work for carbon…

unterhausen

there are some pretty good usb ones on ebay for not too much money. I want a right angle one, haven't seen that. But I've used mine for looking at plug dropouts from the inside of a fork blade. I tried the ones at work, and none were long enough, but my $15 ebay camera worked fine. I think mine is 10mm, as they get smaller they go up in price. Saw one that was under 4mm, but it had the hand-held display and cost over $100. I would rather skip the display and pay less. Would let you look at a lot of stuff inside frames though.

cyclehaus

We use xray everyday to inspect carbon bike frames, we shot over 11,000 xrays last year and about 20k total. Cracks are visible and other then visual inspection this is the only economical way to inspect for crack like damage. We also do infrared, acoustic, and ultrasonic but not for bikes. The material is to finite for those types of inspection techniques and the set up time and calibration is time/cost prohibitive. If anybody is telling you different is because they don't have the experience or the resources. Period!

rekmeyata

THIS!

Sure they can find the cracks but of course will charge you to find them, then you have to have the frame repaired which means even more money, yeah, it's quite possible you could exceed the value of the frame with the scans and repairs.

Then look into some other material for your next bike like titanium or steel and not be bothered with not knowing about the condition of the frame...except the fork will remain a problem since most forks today are CF.

Andrew R Stewart 

cyclehaus- Please elaborate. Do you have postable shots which you can show good VS damages structure? Who (no names needed but some idea as to privet riders, manufacturers or lawyers...) are your customers. Do you combine various methods to assess frames besides xrays and if so how do the different methods compare or support each other. Andy.

gsa103

I would imagine the average dental x-ray machine would be ideal for bike inspection of problematic areas. You can even scan 360 around a tube, which would show delamination.

dedhed

Try NDT services in our area.

Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) Services in Utah (UT) on ThomasNet.com

AnkleWork

Please don't confuse ride-an-agenda with facts. He knows better than the NTSB -- just ask him. Leave him to riding airplanes with titanium frames (HAW!).

well biked

This goes along with what I've heard from some bike manufacturers that our shop deals with. With carbon frames that are possibly cracked, we've sent the frame to warranty, and I've been told it is x-rayed to determine if there's actually a crack.

rekmeyata

Canyon only sells used racing frames, and every frame is CT scan before being allowed to be sold.