mstateglfr 

I haven't been talking about deep v rims, I started off referencing a 28mm deep rim. The discussion then turned to aero so I responded about aero.
A 23mm wide 28mm deep rim simply isn't too heavy when compared to typical Araya and Mavic rims from the 80s. The 80s rims I've weighed have been 420 and 500 grams. Super hard anodized Araya, red label Araya, Mavic something or other- they are all box and low profile and basically the same weight as a modern double walled aluminum rim with a bit of a deeper profile.

If you get dropped with a modern rim that is 23mm wide and 28mm deep then you would get dropped on vintage Arays rims too.
Reality and whatnot.

Salamandrine 

Yes, that's right, the deeper section allows them to be stiffer. Sorry I overreacted a bit. I get tired of people talking about modern alloys, as if they've changed in the last couple decades. You clearly didn't say that.

As long as we're on this topic, I recently had the revelation that now old school low profile rim shapes may have once been seen as super modern. Wooden rims had to be deep to be strong enough. When they went to aluminum, this was no longer required. I wonder if then low profile cross sections had partly just been fashion, because deep section rims being stronger really should have been figured out a long time ago.

Oh I know it's just perspective. That's what makes it hilarious. When I was a teenager 28H would have been only for some crazy light aero wheel for the state time trial championships or something. Even for that it would have been a bit extreme and unusual. You'd never use a 28h wheel on a regular ride.

noglider 

I don't get your point. Are there any other choices?

robertorolfo

Finished in the top 10 of a crit last year riding decidely 80's tre-tubi framed bike. The next race I used something more modern and aluminum, and it didn't make a difference. The bike had virtually nothing to do with my performance, it was all down to me, for better or for worse. Point being, with a good rider (not me) an 80's race bike is still more than capable of hanging with anyone aside from the top level pros. Now, try and race a car from the 80's against the same make/model from the past 5 years, and tell me how it goes. You could be Giancarlo Fisichella and it won't matter...

mstateglfr 

yeah- for most of us, the advances in road bikes over the last 40 years have been incremental as it pertains to average speed.

veganbikes

Clearly you haven't ridden on Iron rims! No tires needed.



You probably won't get lighter but if you want a really nice wheelset I have been quite happy with the wheelset I got built up for my Phil Wood frame. Phil Wood Freewheel hubs (126mm pink anodized) laced to Velocity A23 rims with Phil Wood DB spokes and nipples. All MUSA, works and looks like a dream.

cyclic_eric

As opposed to tubeless, I prefer clinchers with tubes, or sew-ups on tubular rims.

Imho, for this bike from the 80's, I'll try to keep most of the componentry close to that time period. Obviously, everyone on this forum agrees with me that bikes from the 80's and 90's are the best.


The aero debates, while entertaining, are likely off topic for this '84 Gitane I'm working on. For newer bikes, the aero bikes in the $4-5K range I've ridden may be faster, but they sure weren't very enjoyable. Noisy, and harsh, I'm glad we have other choices.

noglider 

Oh OK you don't categorize tubeless within clincher. Thanks for clarifying.

tricky 

Those MUSA wheels are such a cool idea. What do you think they weigh?

robertorolfo

Well, you claimed that 40 year old bikes were "very much c&v," drawing comparisons to "old" and vintage products that only have value as non-functioning nostalgia. I can't agree. A 40 year old race bike can still race, and race very well. Compared to some other products and technologies, I'd say that bikes are almost exceptional in their consistency. Not trying to argue, just my opinion.

Back to the original point, put me in the camp that thinks tire choice is going to matter more than the small differences in wheels. There are some really good tires out there that will work well with older wheels/rims.

70sSanO

I can only run 126mm wide, aluminum frame and elected not to just shove the wheel in.

A nice compromise for me was to swap the Dura Ace freehub with a 7 speed UG/HG freehub. I wanted to go with a lower gearing and I can run a 14-34 7 speed cassette (with a UG 14t).

I like the new wheels/gearing better.

The old wheels were no slouch... MA40, Superbe Pro, DB spokes, Sachs Aris freewheel.

Derailleurs are 900 XTR with Dura Ace DT shifters...

... non-aero Dura Ace brakes.

For me it gives a good C&V look and function with just enough upgrades.

John

Edit added: I should clarify that by new, I mean newer. A hub with a 7 speed UG/HG cassette lets you keep your 126mm and run a 14t. 14t UG 1st position cassette cogs are still available. I was fortunate to pick up my components when they were now wanted.

But early 90’s Ultegra is great stuff with a nice polished finish. Have the wheels built to what you want. Run 32h with DB spokes. You have to weigh your wheels and freewheel and see what a build will give you.

cyclic_eric

You are right. My original post about opting for clincher or tubular wheels was my error.

veganbikes

I honestly don't know and haven't weighed them. Maybe when I am back at the shop tomorrow I might do that or at least weigh the bike. I don't really care that exceptionally much not because I like heavy bikes but it is a Phil Wood bike it should have Phil Wood hubs, spokes and nipples and MUSA rims, anything else would be wrong. I can say the Phil wheels are a touch heavier than the Dura Ace/TB14 wheels they replaced.