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Rear Wheel / Wheel Set for 250 Pound Rider

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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

Rear Wheel / Wheel Set for 250 Pound Rider

Old 05-21-20, 07:23 AM
  #26  
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I found a used set of ksyrium elite for $200 with tires and tubes and it's been completely bomb proof. I haven't had any issues at all. I ended up switching to them because I kept popping spokes on my old wheel set
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Old 05-28-20, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Oneder
The rim material, rim width and tire width and pressure matter too but more spokes will be more sturdy, though I did use only 26 spokes at over 300 and none broke until recently one broke. I'd like to get 36 spoke replacements. I may go with the ones someonw posted in another thread here that are less than 200 for a set.

https://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/BW...eore-Disc.html
Rim material, rim width and tire width have very little to do with the strength of a wheel. Carbon may be stronger than aluminum but there is a high premium to be paid and I doubt that many people have that much experience with them. There are are few but most of us are going to go with aluminum which means that the “rim material” is the same.

Rim width has little to do with the strength and durability of a wheel as well. The metal used to make a wider rim is the same thickness as the metal used to make a narrower rim. The width might resist bending a little but not that much nor is bending of the rim while riding that much of a problem.

Tire width doesn’t do much either. Impacts aren’t sent up the spokes because the spokes are floating on the rim.

The real key is to solve the problem that kills wheels. If you break a rim, it can be easily replaced and the wheel will be just as strong as it was when originally built. You can even break multiple rims (or wear them out) and new rim can be laced into place and put back into service.

The “problem” is broken spokes and the solution lies in those very same spokes. If you break several spokes, a wheel is done. So fix the problem. Add more strength and durability to the spokes. Using a spoke with a 2.3mm head will add about 50% more strength to the wheel where it is needed...at the place where spokes break. A number of companies make triple butted spokes (2.3/1.8/2.0mm). DT Alpine III are good ones and readily available from Quality Bicycle Products which is the wholesaler for most (if not all) bike shops. Sapim, Wheelsmith and Pillar make them as well.

Going to triple butted spokes can add as much strength as going up 4 to 10 spoke on the wheel. Unfortunately triple butted spokes aren’t widely used. QBP will build a wheel with them. I build wheels with them for my use because I couldn’t get them elsewhere. I actually discovered something interesting when I built a replacement wheel set for my fast road bike. It had Veulta Corsa wheels which were 20/24. I built a new wheel set with Velocity A23 rims (not a super light rim), Pillar triple butted spokes and White Industry T11 hubs in 32 hole drilling. My bike weighed 2 pounds less with the new wheel set over the Veultas. Yes, the T11 hubs have a titanium freehub but that’s only a small difference.

The Veultas have to be over built to carry more stress between the fewer spokes which adds weight. I now have stronger, more durable wheels and they are lighter as a bonus.
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Old 05-28-20, 06:57 PM
  #28  
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You can go to prowheelbuilder.com and have them build wheels around a Velocity rim with 36 spokes. They don't have triple-butted spokes but they have double-butted and they have Sapim Strong single-butted thick-elbow spokes.
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Old 05-29-20, 12:14 PM
  #29  
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for Clydes (I'm a baby Clyde ar 90 kg)

32 or 36 hole, double wall rim. 3 cross non-butted ss spokes, brass nipples, 2.35 or larger tires (as long as they fit). Never have a problem again... just make sure spokes ate prestressed and retensioned and check them....
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Old 05-29-20, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Rim material, rim width and tire width have very little to do with the strength of a wheel. Carbon may be stronger than aluminum but there is a high premium to be paid and I doubt that many people have that much experience with them. There are are few but most of us are going to go with aluminum which means that the “rim material” is the same.

Rim width has little to do with the strength and durability of a wheel as well. The metal used to make a wider rim is the same thickness as the metal used to make a narrower rim. The width might resist bending a little but not that much nor is bending of the rim while riding that much of a problem.

Tire width doesn’t do much either. Impacts aren’t sent up the spokes because the spokes are floating on the rim.

The real key is to solve the problem that kills wheels. If you break a rim, it can be easily replaced and the wheel will be just as strong as it was when originally built. You can even break multiple rims (or wear them out) and new rim can be laced into place and put back into service.

The “problem” is broken spokes and the solution lies in those very same spokes. If you break several spokes, a wheel is done. So fix the problem. Add more strength and durability to the spokes. Using a spoke with a 2.3mm head will add about 50% more strength to the wheel where it is needed...at the place where spokes break. A number of companies make triple butted spokes (2.3/1.8/2.0mm). DT Alpine III are good ones and readily available from Quality Bicycle Products which is the wholesaler for most (if not all) bike shops. Sapim, Wheelsmith and Pillar make them as well.

Going to triple butted spokes can add as much strength as going up 4 to 10 spoke on the wheel. Unfortunately triple butted spokes aren’t widely used. QBP will build a wheel with them. I build wheels with them for my use because I couldn’t get them elsewhere. I actually discovered something interesting when I built a replacement wheel set for my fast road bike. It had Veulta Corsa wheels which were 20/24. I built a new wheel set with Velocity A23 rims (not a super light rim), Pillar triple butted spokes and White Industry T11 hubs in 32 hole drilling. My bike weighed 2 pounds less with the new wheel set over the Veultas. Yes, the T11 hubs have a titanium freehub but that’s only a small difference.

The Veultas have to be over built to carry more stress between the fewer spokes which adds weight. I now have stronger, more durable wheels and they are lighter as a bonus.
Of course they do take a basic physics or engineering course.
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Old 06-15-20, 03:18 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Rim material, rim width and tire width have very little to do with the strength of a wheel. Carbon may be stronger than aluminum but there is a high premium to be paid and I doubt that many people have that much experience with them. There are are few but most of us are going to go with aluminum which means that the “rim material” is the same.

Rim width has little to do with the strength and durability of a wheel as well. The metal used to make a wider rim is the same thickness as the metal used to make a narrower rim. The width might resist bending a little but not that much nor is bending of the rim while riding that much of a problem.

Tire width doesn’t do much either. Impacts aren’t sent up the spokes because the spokes are floating on the rim.

The real key is to solve the problem that kills wheels. If you break a rim, it can be easily replaced and the wheel will be just as strong as it was when originally built. You can even break multiple rims (or wear them out) and new rim can be laced into place and put back into service.

The “problem” is broken spokes and the solution lies in those very same spokes. If you break several spokes, a wheel is done. So fix the problem. Add more strength and durability to the spokes. Using a spoke with a 2.3mm head will add about 50% more strength to the wheel where it is needed...at the place where spokes break. A number of companies make triple butted spokes (2.3/1.8/2.0mm). DT Alpine III are good ones and readily available from Quality Bicycle Products which is the wholesaler for most (if not all) bike shops. Sapim, Wheelsmith and Pillar make them as well.

Going to triple butted spokes can add as much strength as going up 4 to 10 spoke on the wheel. Unfortunately triple butted spokes aren’t widely used. QBP will build a wheel with them. I build wheels with them for my use because I couldn’t get them elsewhere. I actually discovered something interesting when I built a replacement wheel set for my fast road bike. It had Veulta Corsa wheels which were 20/24. I built a new wheel set with Velocity A23 rims (not a super light rim), Pillar triple butted spokes and White Industry T11 hubs in 32 hole drilling. My bike weighed 2 pounds less with the new wheel set over the Veultas. Yes, the T11 hubs have a titanium freehub but that’s only a small difference.

The Veultas have to be over built to carry more stress between the fewer spokes which adds weight. I now have stronger, more durable wheels and they are lighter as a bonus.
Just trying to make sense of all this before I fork out more cash...
I had a Fastroad with sr2 17mm rim and currently on wtb 19mm. Both in 28mm tire with tube.

The sr2 tooksome serious pebble path, rim stayed true. But my current bike's rim started to go uneven and eventually needed to be trued, is that because tension and preload wasn't done right from LBS? Or the current bike's rear triangle is much stiffer(cx bike) that the wheel takes more beating? This was my first new bike purchase... Learning as we speak.

You mentioned width doesn't do much more But it's more material isnt it? More is more torsional rigidity right?
Or, the focus should be by having tire absorb most of the shock spike. And hence bigger tire volume usually equal wider rim, its just conveniently that way?
So the focus is really on tight spokes and preloaded rim and supple tire setup for heavier rider? I got a Dt r500 rear wheel on the way, hoping thats better than wtb..

Also a Clydes rider here.
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Old 06-15-20, 06:50 PM
  #32  
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jma1st3r if you're talking torsional stiffness that has everything to do with the spoke count and spokes and more or less nothing to do with the rim, though you can't truly say nothing because the spokes that are under heavy load due to high torsion have to be able to resist the spokes trying to pull themselves through the rim.

When you talk about "tension and preload" I'm curious what you're talking about. I'm not aware of any preload that exists that is different than spoke tension, unless you're talking about bearing preload in the case of angular contact bearing preload, which is an issue with eg: Shimano hubs. Most hubs these days use radial contact bearings. So what exactly are you asking?

A higher spoke count is going to distribute the forces over more spokes, which is going to mean a smaller gap in the min/max spoke tension due to all forces involved, whether it be just bearing the weight of the rider + bike, hitting potholes or cracks (or stones), or torsional loads due to acceleration or brake with disc breaks. The periodic cycling of spoke tension between min and max values as the wheel rotates and the aperiodic change in spoke tension due to the other reasons is going to have an effect if the min tension is low enough that the spoke nipples can loosen over time. I think, based on just what I've read over the years combined with my limited first hand observations that spoke count is more important in building strong wheels for a clyde than rim width or rim stiffness. Not saying that's not important, I just believe personally that spoke count and what spokes are used are more important.
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Old 06-15-20, 08:14 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SethAZ
jma1st3r if you're talking torsional stiffness that has everything to do with the spoke count and spokes and more or less nothing to do with the rim, though you can't truly say nothing because the spokes that are under heavy load due to high torsion have to be able to resist the spokes trying to pull themselves through the rim.

When you talk about "tension and preload" I'm curious what you're talking about. I'm not aware of any preload that exists that is different than spoke tension, unless you're talking about bearing preload in the case of angular contact bearing preload, which is an issue with eg: Shimano hubs. Most hubs these days use radial contact bearings. So what exactly are you asking?

A higher spoke count is going to distribute the forces over more spokes, which is going to mean a smaller gap in the min/max spoke tension due to all forces involved, whether it be just bearing the weight of the rider + bike, hitting potholes or cracks (or stones), or torsional loads due to acceleration or brake with disc breaks. The periodic cycling of spoke tension between min and max values as the wheel rotates and the aperiodic change in spoke tension due to the other reasons is going to have an effect if the min tension is low enough that the spoke nipples can loosen over time. I think, based on just what I've read over the years combined with my limited first hand observations that spoke count is more important in building strong wheels for a clyde than rim width or rim stiffness. Not saying that's not important, I just believe personally that spoke count and what spokes are used are more important.
I am with you on spokes, i believe that as well. I had thought simply getting wider rims would help. But now it seem how the spokes are tuned is very very important. Maybe my LBS didnt double check when I got my bike...or a simple fact I didnt as a new bike owner. I'm with you on spoke tension, I've watched the Parktools video on spokes and how its measured and that gives me somewhat of a introduction to this.

As to preload.. I saw someone stepping on their spoke in one of the wheel building video on youtube before completing the truing process.
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Old 06-16-20, 09:56 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r
I am with you on spokes, i believe that as well. I had thought simply getting wider rims would help. But now it seem how the spokes are tuned is very very important. Maybe my LBS didnt double check when I got my bike...or a simple fact I didnt as a new bike owner. I'm with you on spoke tension, I've watched the Parktools video on spokes and how its measured and that gives me somewhat of a introduction to this.

As to preload.. I saw someone stepping on their spoke in one of the wheel building video on youtube before completing the truing process.
Ah, you're talking about the stress relief. I've seen people stepping on their wheels on the side and whatnot as part of their stress relief. I have't built that many wheels yet (five so far), I did the spoke squeezing method, the pushing down on the rim lying on its side method, and pushed the spoke J bends over at the hub flange method, and had minimal to no spoke popping on first riding. Yeah, I can see how that's important because when a spoke pops it's loosening up, and if it loosens up enough that in the min/max cycling it gets low enough tension to loosen further there's going to be problems.
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Old 06-16-20, 03:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r

Just trying to make sense of all this before I fork out more cash...
I had a Fastroad with sr2 17mm rim and currently on wtb 19mm. Both in 28mm tire with tube.

The sr2 tooksome serious pebble path, rim stayed true. But my current bike's rim started to go uneven and eventually needed to be trued, is that because tension and preload wasn't done right from LBS? Or the current bike's rear triangle is much stiffer(cx bike) that the wheel takes more beating? This was my first new bike purchase... Learning as we speak..
Why a wheel goes out of true can be caused by any number of factors. Physical damage to the rim can happen but it is way down on the list. Most often the reason is because of uneven spoke tension. But even that is the result of a number of different issues. If the spokes aren’t set (bent to conform) to the hub during lacing, they will eventually conform while you ride but they will lengthen unevenly as they do so. The wheel goes out of true.

If spoke prep hasn’t been used to lock the threads in place, the nipples can unscrew with vibration and the tensioning/detensioning process the spokes naturally go through as you ride. This makes for uneven tension and the rim goes out of true.

Mounting a tire on the bike and pressurizing it causes the overall tension to decrease. Some tire/wheel combinations can cause reduction in tension more than others which can lead to changes in tension on the spoke and, again, it goes out of true.

Even something as simple as spoke windup...i.e. the spoke twists while the wheel is being tensioned...can cause differences in spoke tension. If you’ve ever put a new set of wheels on the bike, started to ride, and noticed a pinging from the spokes, that’s the spoke untwisting and the wheel going out of true.

There’s a whole lot more that can result in changes of spoke tension and damage from simply riding, while on the list, is way down at the bottom. If you are a jumper, it might be higher up but it’s still lower down than all of the above.

Originally Posted by jma1st3r
You mentioned width doesn't do much more But it's more material isnt it? More is more torsional rigidity right?
Or, the focus should be by having tire absorb most of the shock spike. And hence bigger tire volume usually equal wider rim, its just conveniently that way?
So the focus is really on tight spokes and preloaded rim and supple tire setup for heavier rider? I got a Dt r500 rear wheel on the way, hoping thats better than wtb..

Also a Clydes rider here.
It’s more material but bikes rims don’t need all that much in the way of torsional rigidity. Bike wheels simple don’t bend out of plane all that easily. The more spokes you have, the less likely the wheel is to bend out of plane. Again, the part of the wheel that does the work is the spoke, not the rim. 20 or even 16 spokes is probably enough to resist torsional bending but that few spokes have more stress put on the head of the spoke where the real work is done. When you corner, the rim doesn’t bend so much as the spokes.

More air volume doesn’t make that much difference either. The rim floats on the spokes. The portion of the rim directly above the contact patch is deflected upward, reducing the tension on the spokes. Putting more air cushion below the spoke won’t decrease the deflection because there is nothing pressing on the bottom of the spoke. The spoke is just floating in midair. This illustrates what is happening. Ignore that the hub isn’t oriented properly, it’s the action of the spoke that is important.

The rim has hit the bottom of the cycle





The rim deflects upward (highly exaggerated). This illustrates how the rim just floats on the spokes and isn’t attached to them. The tension on the spoke decreases and is taken up by the other spokes. Making the rim wider doesn’t stop the deflection. A deeper rim will deflect less but it won’t make that much difference.

The other thing to consider is what kills a wheel? It’s not a damaged rim. Those are relatively easy to replace. Damage one, wear out the brake track, crack the eyelets, etc. and you can replace the rim if you have either the same rim or one with the same ERD. Break spokes and the wheel is done. That’s why I never worry about the strength of the rim. I’m squarely in the Clyde class but I ride very lightweight rims. I don’t worry about broke rims. I worry about broken spokes.
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Old 06-16-20, 03:26 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jma1st3r

As to preload.. I saw someone stepping on their spoke in one of the wheel building video on youtube before completing the truing process.

Don’t do that. It doesn’t do what people think it does and can result in damage to the wheel. Don’t push down on the wheel on the ground either. That can bend the rim and it’s difficult to remove the bend once set. Long ago, I stopped doing that. I use a method suggested by Ric Hjertberg of Wheel Fanatyk that he wrote about in 1986.

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

The stepping on the wheel or bending it against the ground is to do the same thing. This works better without stressing the wheel.
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Old 06-16-20, 03:53 PM
  #37  
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I am 6 foot 250, and ordered these wheel components from Universal Cycles. They have worked fine for 5 years, not one broken spoke, not one flat.
Item #: 4811-128443
Description: Continental Gatorskin Tire 2016 - 700 x 28c (Folding)
Quantity: 2 @ $44.00

Item #: 21310-48496
Description: Q Tubes Standard Cyclecross Presta Tubes - 700 x 28-32c (32mm PV)
Quantity: 1 @ $6.00

Item #: 21310-48497
Description: Q Tubes Standard Cyclecross Presta Tubes - 700 x 28-32c (48mm PV)
Quantity: 3 @ $6.00

Item #: 62853-148600
Description: Shimano HB-6800 Ultegra Front Hub - 100mm x 36 Hole (Gray)
Quantity: 1 @ Kit

Item #: 2162-5409
Description: Required Owners Manuals - Front and Rear Wheelset - 2 Wheels
Quantity: 1 @ Kit

Item #: 38684-88958
Description: DT Swiss Brass Nipples - Black 12mm
Quantity: 2 @ Kit

Item #: 1306-2966
Description: DT Swiss Champion Spokes - 2.0mm (Black)
Quantity: 2 @ Kit

Item #: 44761-103887
Description: Mavic A 319 Rims 2016 - 700c x 36 Hole (Black)
Quantity: 1 @ Kit

Item #: 62854-148602
Description: Shimano FH-6800 Ultegra Rear Hub - 130mm x 36 Hole (Gray)
Quantity: 1 @ Kit

Item #: 44759-103881
Description: Mavic A 719 Rim 2016 - 700c x 36 Hole (Black)
Quantity: 1 @ Kit
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Old 06-16-20, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

The stepping on the wheel or bending it against the ground is to do the same thing. This works better without stressing the wheel.
What do you think of the technique of tapping the j-bend of the spoke down with a mallet? I read of this technique on another site and tried it on the last set of wheels that I built. I used a length of wooden dowel or something like that maybe 1/2" in diameter as a sort of punch, then tapped down by the J-Bend with a mallet, and it did in fact deform the spoke downward to align that area of the spoke to where it would point under tension. I think that's meant to accomplish the same thing you're showing, which I've also read. My one worry was tapping so hard that it could fracture the flange, but I kept it fairly light and the bends happened. I thought it was a reasonable technique. I'd be curious what your thoughts are on it.
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Old 06-17-20, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SethAZ
What do you think of the technique of tapping the j-bend of the spoke down with a mallet? I read of this technique on another site and tried it on the last set of wheels that I built. I used a length of wooden dowel or something like that maybe 1/2" in diameter as a sort of punch, then tapped down by the J-Bend with a mallet, and it did in fact deform the spoke downward to align that area of the spoke to where it would point under tension. I think that's meant to accomplish the same thing you're showing, which I've also read. My one worry was tapping so hard that it could fracture the flange, but I kept it fairly light and the bends happened. I thought it was a reasonable technique. I'd be curious what your thoughts are on it.
I haven’t tried the mallet but I know about it. I like the crank arm because it conforms the spokes on both sides of the hub. I’m not sure that it’s needed as much on the underneath side, but it does get the job done.
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Old 06-17-20, 11:20 PM
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while we're on Clydes and spokes and rims...

um.. just came back from riding... since I mostly ride roads and bike path(eventually connect trails, that's the goal), there were some curb "lips" that I just cant avoid.. Now the front wheel looks a little more wiggly, rideable, not serious enough to be trued...
Should I up the tire size to 32c? There were no loose spokes.. i checked before I went. Spoke gauge will be here next week, so i'm waiting on that.

Last edited by jma1st3r; 06-18-20 at 11:22 AM.
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