Slial

New member here and hoping to get some assistance. Little background, I’m interested in acquiring a classic Italian bike and have been doing considerable research. I actually tried the private message route to those that seem to be in the know on a few of these makers, but the forum doesn’t allow it for new members without 10 posts.

Specifically, I’m looking for some guidance on qualifying the accuracy and authenticity of some vintage bikes, and whether the gear is period appropriate. One in particular is a restored Galmozzi and I would like thoughts on whether everything appears correct and well done.

Not sure what rules are in terms of sharing photos for items that are for sale online, but am glad to do so discreetly if need be.

Scott

noobinsf 

The 10-post requirement is to filter out spam bots. Spend a little time to say hi and comment on other threads and you’ll reach 10 posts quickly. Then, you can start a new thread with plenty of pictures. Starting a public thread with pics is the best way to get exposure for your post and get the many experts here to see it.

merziac

Welcome aboard, glad you found us, sounds like you are in the right place.

Go around, say "Hi" AND comment on 5 posts X 2 days to get there.

You can upload pics that go to your gallery where they can be retrieved after that.

You already have our attention just by saying Galmozzi.

Slial

Thanks for the quick replies. Sounds like a fair and simple enough process. I look forward to learning more and gaining insight.

merziac

Luck of the draw, make it so.

Slial

As for the Galmozzi attention grabber, I have a propensity to research until my ears are bleeding and find myself looking at higher end brands, but always of the vintage variety. I have a complete affinity for the quality of everything vintage, and bikes appear to be no exception. Having spent time in Italy I’m definitely attracted to the beauty and craftsmanship of the Italian bikes...

merziac

Well, you're going to fit right in, many of us seem to have an even greater if not equal appreciation for so called lesser marque's, Galmozzi, Olmo, Grandis and many, many more.

Wildwood 

GALMOZZI

/\ /\ /\ The logical first start, if you haven't started. /\ /\ /\

but there are so many Italian builders, why limit the target to one?

finding vintage Nirvana is a path, not a dart in the dark for a single quiver solution.
Research only jumbles the puzzle.
Your 'backside' will instruct you.
N+1 is your path to pursue enlightenment.
Ride On!

Slial

Totally agree and not honing in on one maker whatsoever. Galmozzi, Cinelli, Pogliahi, Masi, DeRosa, and other smaller and lesser known brands also on the radar. Lots of factors in choosing one also, including choosing fully restored versus preserved and tuned up original, locating correct size, And the difficulty in choosing just ONE with all these great choices!!

Andy_K 

Choosing just ONE? I don't understand what you mean.

It's not clear from your posts if you're new to cycling, just new to vintage bikes, just new to Italian vintage, or not new to any of it and just want some advice. I have a few general recommendations that may or may not be relevant to you.

1. Start with size. Unless you just want wall art, the most important factor in how happy you will be with a bike is whether or not it fits. Don't spend a lot of money on any bike if you aren't certain that you know what size you need (and let me tell you, I spent years thinking I knew but was wrong), If you shop wisely, you can resell a vintage bike for what you paid for it. Avoid bikes that are marked up because they are in exceptional condition, and avoid bikes that need work before you can ride them. Otherwise, you can essentially "borrow" bikes while you figure out your size by buying and selling.

2. Figure out your geometry preferences. By choosing a vintage Italian racing bike, you're more or less locking yourself in to a particular geometry philosophy. That might be want you want, or it might not be. Again, don't overspend to discover the answer to this question. A $400 mid-level Bianchi is likely to have substantially similar handling characteristics to a $3000 Galmozzi. You'll need to talk to people who own the bikes to verify this, but that's doable. One of the reasons I buy a lot of bikes is to see how they ride and to explore my personal preferences. Top-of-the-line bikes are harder to find, harder to establish value for, and harder to find a buyer for, so they aren't good for this kind of experimentation.

3. Decide what your priorities are. You mentioned period correct components. Do you want something just in the ballpark, or something that holds up to minute scrutiny. You're talking to a group here that includes people who care about things like whether the quick release on their Campagnolo brake calipers is flat or domed. Do you want to go for that level of correctness? Also, do you want a bike that's as original as possible or one that looks as good as possible? Most collectors highly value original paint. Repainted bikes have significantly less collector value than even the same bike with original paint and a lot of scuffs and scratches. I, personally, really like bikes that look like new and don't mind if they've been repainted to get in that shape. That sometimes opens the door to bikes that I consider a bargain.

4. Think about what features you like. Different manufacturers did different things. Do you want beautifully filed lugs that highlight the craftsmanship of the builder? What about pantographing that highlights the brand? Maybe a lot of shiny chrome? These choices will help you decide on a builder to pursue.

5. How do you feel about the history and mystique of the builder? Most of the bigger name brands eventually became factory produced. Pinarello, Bianchi, Colnago, Masi, and De Rosa all claim some history that lets you imagine a lone craftsman working in a small shop somewhere in Italy. All of them by the mid-80's were making their bikes in an entirely different way. Those later bikes from these manufacturers are still exceptional bikes (some entry level Bianchis not withstanding), but they aren't what many people imagine them to be. Does that matter to you?

Now, since I've rambled like this let me share pictures of some of my Italians with brief commentary to give my post some appeal.


1984 Pinarello Gran Turismo -- my first Itailian bike. I bought this for $400. It was way too small for me. Columbus SL tubing, SunTour Superbe components (anathema to Italian bike fans, but excellent and a period correct choice). I traded most of the SunTour parts for Campy Super Record components which we'll see below and sold the frame to someone it fit. This was a mid-to-entry-level Pinarello, but I liked it better than my top-of-line Montello.


1989 Bianchi Giro/Mondial/Superleggera -- I bought this as a frame and fork and built it with more modern Campagnolo Daytona components. Columbus SLX tubing. This was a top-of-the-line Bianchi when it was made. It was originally Celeste, but some previous owner painted over that. The finish isn't nearly as good as it looks in the picture. I love this bike and ride it when the weather looks like it may turn foul. The fork crown has the Bianchi logo pressed in. Otherwise, this bike doesn't have nearly as much pantographing as most top-tier Bianchis. This is well into the mass-produced era and after the company had been sold to Piaggio. Not really a collectible even if it was pristine.


1997 Colnago C97 -- I bought this one as a frame and fork as well and built it with 6700-series Shimano Ultegra components. By 1997 even Colnago-sponsored race teams were using Shimano, so I think there's a certain sense to this build. Columbus Thron tubing. This was an entry-level Colnago, but Colnago has never really made bikes that would be entry-level by any other manufacturer's standards. This model wouldn't be sought after by collectors, but it has the same basic geometry and build quality. I love the chrome lugs and the straight fork. This is well into the Colnago factory era. This is a wonderful bike to ride, and it looks great too. Something like this is a good way to test the waters if you're Colnago-curious.


1973 De Rosa -- Now we're starting to get serious. I stumbled into this for a song -- this a late 80's Cinelli frameset, a late 80's Casati complete bike, and a carload of extra parts and tools for $2400. That kind of thing usually only happens in other people's stories. The picture here is as I bought it. The brake levers are Universal CX. The calipers are post-1978 Campagnolo Nuovo Record (the domed lever I mentioned earlier). The wheels have Gipiemme hubs. The seat post and saddle are from a later period. The shift levers are much later Campagnolo Triomphe. Most significantly, the frame was repainted. It has a decal indicating the repaint was done by CyclArt. I don't think anyone would complain about this bike. It's from a period when Ugo De Rosa was employing apprentices, so he probably didn't build it himself, but he likely did at least see it being done. However, the other factors combine to keep this in the second tier of collectibles, at best.


1974 Masi Gran Criterium -- My most recent Italian acquisition. This has a lot in common with the De Rosa, but it highlights a different aspect of the search for Italian bikes -- it was build in California. If you don't know about the California Masis, you might think that's a huge deal. It's actually part of what makes this bike special. Faliero Masi moved to California in 1973 and brought his apprentice Mario Confente with him. Together they trained a handful of Americans to build bikes, several of whom also went on to become well regarded builders. This went downhill quickly, but in 1974 it was still a golden city on a hill. There's no way to know who built my bike. It's serial number 119, which establishes it in the early part of 1974, before things started coming apart. On the other hand, the bike has been repainted and a few braze-ons added. Both of these things increase its value to me, but decrease its collectible value. The components were all Campagnolo Nuovo Record, but many of them slightly later. On close inspection, the brake levers don't even match -- one is period-correct and the other isn't. So it goes. There are many nice details in the craftsmanship of this bike that uniquely identify it as a Masi from this period.


1983 Gios Professional -- From a collectors purity perspective, this is the pinnacle of my collection. I bought this from another Bike Forums member as a frame and fork. The paint is original and has a significant amount of genuine patina -- you can see the yellowing of the panel decals; there's also a fairly thick blackish build-up on most of the blue paint. I built it with the Campy Super Record components I mentioned above having gotten in a trade for the components that were on the Pinarello. These are "correct" for this particular bike.The hubs are Campy Nuovo Record, but I built them with modern H Plus Son TB14 clincher rims. These rims have a vintage-style mirror finish, but a dark anodized rim like a Mavic MA40 probably would have been more correct for this bike.

So, that's an example of the road you're about to start walking. Take it as a guide or a warning. If you get into this hobby, the possibilities are endless. As you seen from the bikes I showed, there are endless treasures out there to be discovered, and I haven't even really dipped a toe into the waters you're talking about using as you're stepping off point with a bike like a Galmozzi. That's some truly rarefied air.

BenPink

Thanks Andy K, what an amazing collection
thanks for the tour.

Slial

Andy,

Thanks for the amazing breakdown and photos. Lots of points and questions that merit reply, but would say yes I am keenly aware of the vast extent of the details and the potential for diving into the rabbit hole head first. I tends to fit my personality and I approach all hobbies that way.

I’m new to cycling with road bikes. I love details and minutia like domed vs flat and as I mentioned before, have a great affinity for all things Italian after living there as a student. My hope for this first bike is obviously classic/vintage (hence the posting in this forum), original with period correct parts of the highest caliber available at the time, etc. I’m not diametrically opposed to a restored bike if done very well and accurately, but I’d prefer a vintage bike that is ready to ride or close. My leaning is early 80s at the latest, but love 60s and 70s as well. I get that these dates directly affect the availability of certain high end components based on the fact that they were yet to be introduced.

I’ve got my eye on both small shop and larger production stuff but nothing is set in stone. Looking forward to this process and learning more and more importantly, riding more!

Andy_K 

Sounds like you're in the right place!

Here's something else to fill your free time: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...i-talians.html It's an old thread, so some of the pictures on the early pages are missing, but it's still active (the most recent addition was last Friday) and has a lot of great eye candy.

3alarmer 

...your best bet is to keep an open mind with regard to maker, and your best deals are usually on the local Craigslist. So you might consider listing your location on your user page data. For example, I live in Northern California, not that far from San Francisco, so my local CL is absolutely chock full of bikes that would fit your desires. If you live somewhere in a small town in the Midwest, it gets harder, but is still not impossible.

Personally, I admire the people who have the courage to buy a used, high end bike on the internet without inspecting it in person. I would never consider that..too many things that you can't see in photos.

This is all by way of saying there is one forum in particular where you probably want to post your inquiries, the C+V Appraisals forum.


Here is a very nice Italian bike:



Here is a very nice British bike (since then repainted, and now sporting different wheels):



Here is a swell bike with an Italian name, that was made right here in California:



Lastly, here is a very nicely built bicycle that was made by an American builder that few people have heard of, Michael Johnson. Check out the lug work.







All of these were bought off the NorCal CL, although I had to drive to Lake Tahoe to buy the last one, It's a complex topic, and you probably won't get the bike of your dreams on your first try. That's what makes it interesting.

Slial

No doubt I’m prowling the local CL...I’m in New England by the way. Mixed bag it seems...certainly plenty of junk on there, especially with the bike shortage being felt nationwide during these crazy times. I will continue looking for sure! Patience is hardly a virtue though!

RiddleOfSteel

Man that lug work is seductive. Especially that seat cluster.

3alarmer 

...the people buying bikes that are causing the bike "shortage" are not looking much at CL ads for something that might need some work and still costs $500-1000 bucks. So at least here in my area, there are some nice bikes getting dragged out of dusty corners that are worth that much money, and listed for sale. Because the owners have been sitting on them with prices for old bikes depressed over the past few years.

There's and absolutely gorgeous Lygie in my size on the local CL right now, which I would buy in a heartbeat if I did not already have too many nice bicycles.

But yeah, in New England, with a shorter riding season, you might have fewer choices than me. Nonetheless, there are some top notch builders who have worked in that area of the country over the years. Discover their names (the American builders who have produced custom frames near you). They often show up on CL at relatively reasonable asking prices, because the names fly under the radar with the general public. A Colnago or a Cinelli, (Or even a Galmozzi) is always gonna be listed pretty high unless it needs to be painted. American builders not so much. American builders are an underappreciated national treasure.

3alarmer 

Lascauxcaveman 

@3alarmer, damn, that big Johnson of yours is sexy!

jdawginsc 

As a reinforcement/counterpoint to that above...I took risks on buying vintage Italian frames from Italy’s eBay and have been pretty successful.

Basso Gap, Rossin Record, Rossin Performance EL, Van Tuyl from the Netherlands, Faggin (not so successful), Losa...

id put Rossin and Basso against any of the more established brands...but there are other fun Italian brands which are pretty quaint! Denti, Somec, Galmozzi, Grandis, Viner, Bevilaqua...

3alarmer 

...now you're just sweet talking. For the OP, here's a list of custom frame builders someone pretty knowledgeable compiled in 2012.
Besides a breakdown by state (in the US), It also has an extensive list of Italian and British bespoke frame producers...It has links to websites as well, but some of them are broken now.

These are names you can put into a local CL as part of your search terms. You can also use "Reynolds" and "Columbus" as general terms that will give more general results.

Wileyone 

I think some of us focus too much on the Country of origin rather than the bike itself.

Back in the early eighties I was lucky enough to have a 1978 Trek TX900 and a 1978 colnago master. The Trek would run circles around the colnago there was absolutely no comparison. Given that to this day I would never even consider owning a colnago. Or understand the prices they go for. The OP mentioned Galmozzi I have a 1969 that is very special. But I also have a 1967 Holdsworth that is equally special. Both very well made with great attention to detail.

So my suggestion is for the OP is to get educated and evaluate bikes on their own merits not the country of origin.

Slial

I agree with this logic. I’m not completely limiting myself to Italian only and have actually been looking at bikes from other producing countries as well. There’s an amazing handmade Trek 730 from 1979 locally available that I looked at and loved, loaded with Campy gear, Brooks saddle, etc, but alas it was far too big for me.

Slial

There are some great bikes available overseas and I’m not uncomfortable with that type of transaction. I assume most of these shops are capable when it comes to packing and shipping. The real challenge is committing to a bike without having ever saddled up on it. I feel fairly confident I “know” my size, but fully appreciate that one doesn’t really know if a bike is a good fit without trying it first.

Danmozy66

Slial
Hi Scott, I am in the exact same place as you in terms of starting out around here and beginning my head-first journey down the rabbit hole of classic Italian bikes. It's nice to such find like-minded folk!

I too am in the process of looking for my first bike and am trying to absorb as much information as possible along the way. Here's my secret trick - when I find see something that catches my eye on my local CL or FB Marketplace, I search the bike on google, immediately followed by the word 'bikeforums' and I am almost always able to glean the info I need from here. It is actually remarkable the breadth of knowledge that is around these parts (thank you everyone).

Re: posting pictures, a few days ago I finally decided to create my an account (after admittedly using the forums for years) and I wanted to post an ad in the marketplace section here seeking a pre 1987 italian made bike with high end columbus tubing. Although it looks like you're at about 8 posts already, but what I did was a paid member subscription (it was super cheap!) and it allowed me to post pictures straight away.

Best of luck!
Dan