GeogreHudetz

Fair enough - I'll agree that I overstated things a bit in my original post. But I do find that my road instincts - in terms of trusting the quality of the surface - don't serve me well on gravel. But then perhaps I've always been overly trusting of pavement quality.

FiftySix

Those tires* sure mean you can't lean hard or touch the brakes wrong in loose dirt and ball bearing sized rocks. I mentioned wet steel plate in another thread, well that there piece of road is the rural equivalent with those near slick tires.

Suspension would have helped your tires follow the pot-hole like situation, but that's a different machine. Tires with a deep tread pattern would have helped bite through the loose dirt. Even so, if you stop pedaling and your weight shifts to your seat, now the bike feels your weight high instead of low. Keeping weight on the pedals, or even standing on them, would help your bike feel your weight low and allow your legs to act as suspension.

IMO, off-road riding time would help in understanding some of this. Back in my motorcycle days I started on road bikes, but I really learned how to ride when I rode off-road.

*Whats the tread depth on those things, 0.5mm?

Dirt Farmer

Gravel, wet leaves, and wet wooden planks/boardwalks. It'll happen to most everyone once, regardless of tire.

smashndash

I second specialized tires - I felt a massive difference going from new Pirelli P Zeros to 3 year old, cracked up, Specialized Turbo Pros. I shaved a 40 seconds off my best time on a 13 minute descent (5 attempts).

I think most people run their pressures too high, though. At 145lbs, I run 40-55psi front, 50-65psi rear in 25mm tires. Any more and I start feeling slower. In a wet crit, I would go as low as 35 front. This obviously increases your chance of pinching or breaking a rim if you seriously screw up, but if that's not a valid reason to pump your tires up rock hard if you want to go fast imo - otherwise we'd all be running solid rubber tires. Feel free to call me a kook for running these pressures, but the amount of cornering confidence at 40psi is huge compared to even 60. I can't even imagine running 80 anymore - forget 100.

Poor surface conditions, sure. Front brake, not necessarily. My front tire suddenly slid out while cornering in a glass-smooth parking lot. I was barely pushing it. I'm surprised that most people say the rear slides first or they get a progressive one or two wheel slide when overcooking a corner - I've experienced neither. I think I was running a fatter rear tire at the time so maybe that had something to do with it.

canklecat

That's some of the most treacherous stuff many of us will encounter on bicycle or motorcycle rides, precisely because it doesn't look particularly dangerous. It's not quite pavement, not quite gravel. I've fallen and nearly fallen on stuff like that many times on motorcycles and bicycles when I was younger and more reckless. Fortunately I bounced back then with only scrapes and embedded grit to show for my utter lack of skill.

Taking the inside of the camber can help. Get on the wrong side and you're almost sure to loose traction at any speed above 10 mph.

And that's one reason why my favorite all around tire is the Continental Speed Ride, a bargain priced tire with soft, grippy yet durable diamond/file main tread, and vestigial side knobbies that only come into play on grass. It's basically Conti's fatter, consumer grade version of their dry conditions cyclocross tire. Handle that typical kind of rural road very calmly.

Alas, it's not available in anything but 700x42 (nominal, actual size is closer to 700x38). Pretty much for hybrids and drop bar bikes with plenty of clearance in the forks, stays and brake bridges. There are a few other brand tires with similar tread design in 700x32 on up -- Donnelly (formerly Clement), the Challenge Gravel Grinder, even a couple from Kenda. Check 'em out, see if one fits your bike. Run 'em as soft as you dare for rides on those roads. It'll help restore your confidence.

On my road bikes, I slow way down when approaching turns, corners and curves like that. I don't bounce anymore.

Take care, do your physical therapy and stretches. It'll help. If you have residual pain after the opiate prescription meds run out, check out CBD if it's legal in your area. The full spectrum high potency works really well. No side effects, so I'll take it before or during bike rides, no problems. I'm fine for 20-30 miles but beyond that my old injuries flare up -- neck, shoulder, back -- and NSAIDs don't help much.

Most topical analgesic balms don't help much either, but I'm giving Ted's Pain Cream a second chance. The theory is the topical resveratrol (from grapes and Japanese knotweed) and MSM transdermal carrier penetrates the skin just enough to "reset" the stuck pain receptors on otherwise healed injuries. I still have some ultra-tender places on my neck, shoulder and scapula so I'm giving it another two-week trial to see if it helps. And PT. And a chiropractor.

Getting old sucks with injuries. But I can't quit riding.

canklecat

BTW, @Witterings, if your helmet hit the deck, get a new one. It did its job.

After witnessing a horrific crash during a large group ride in July I went shopping for a second helmet. The guy's right side of his head smacked the pavement, then he slid headfirst at 20+ mph into a curb. Crushed the helmet in the occipital region -- rear to one side. Caught it all on video, but I haven't shown it to him. Too stressful while he's recuperating.

I have a Bell Formula MIPS that's very good -- excellent attention to detail, reasonably lightweight and well ventilated, and comfortable. Really a bargain at around $70 US -- it looks like a much more expensive helmet. But I've always worried it doesn't cover quite low enough along the occipital region.

After shopping around and trying everything I could find, I got a POC Omne Air Spin. It's basically a well ventilated, lighter weight version of those hipster skater/commuter helmets that are so poorly ventilated and look like bowling balls. But POC got it right. It's much better ventilated and cooler than my Bell, with vents that scoop air across my scalp -- I have long, thick hair and I can feel air rushing across my head even in hot, humid Texas summer. The EPS foam is thicker than most, especially in the back, and it covers lower around the ears and occipital region. POC's "SPIN" is just a simplified variation of MIPS, to allow the helmet to deflect while the harness grips the skull and keeps the helmet in place. Dunno if POC's SPIN works but MIPS definitely does (I was konked on the noggin by a railroad crossing arm a few months ago and the Bell did the job).

A couple of drawbacks to the POC. The thicker EPS somewhat obscures my forward view when I'm in the drops -- it doesn't block my view of the road, but there's an overhang above my brow that's noticeable. A minor nit, but worth mentioning. It's a little heavier than my Bell helmets. The "Y" harness strap is not adjustable for length around the ears -- I had to scoot the Y harness doodad forward a bit to relieve pressure under my ear lobe. It's fine now. The chin strap length is conventionally adjustable. But folks who prefer to pull the Y harness way down toward their jaws, away from their ears, will find the POC to be unusual.

Anyway, POC makes good if pricey skull shaped styrofoam beer coolers. Probably a little better protection than some. The Omne Air Spin doesn't look quite as odd and bulky as the Octal. It'll be my casual riding helmet now. I might consider another POC for my road bikes if I can find one without the brow overhang.

Witterings

I queried earlier about you having such strong opinions for a newbie or whether you were a banned user that had created a different username and you didn't respond .... I'm guessing that's probably because you were previously banned ????

canklecat

Check your Edit Ignore List options. It's a good thing.

Lemond1985

Probably already been said, but that gravel over the pavement is the problem, it tends to cause a "ball bearing effect" while cornering over it. And I would imagine those little rocks get run over multiple times a day, to the point where many are close to perfectly round. I've slid out on similar corners countless times, by leaning too much when the traction isn't there.

Witterings

My 29er that I lent the guy behind me and was the other person that fell has Conti Speed Rides On It .... He went because he braked to avoid hitting me .... maybe if those were on my gravel bike instead I may not gone over but we'll never know .... I have switched tyres on it back to my GK - SK's though for now and yes I will definitely get a new helmet.

@literal trope You're green light was on so I guess you've seen my 2nd comment about being banned but still no reply .... I've had a few PM's from other members saying you've been banned under different usernames a few times (they even kindly listed some of them) so it seems you may be a serial offender ... ever thought about the reason why you're getting banned???

63rickert

Of course tires make a difference. Choosing the perfect tire for each inch of your ride is not possible. What is possible is trying lots of tires and paying attention and learning something as you go. Also spend some time and effort experimenting with inflation pressure. In my mind every mentioned pressure is way too high. But what do I know? Test for yourself.

canklecat

Oh, I've managed to hit the deck while riding Conti Speed Rides. First time I wasn't paying attention and nicked a seam in the pavement that went from flush to an inch or so higher on one side. Boom. Sore ribs. Second time I was hit by a car, so I won't blame the tires. But generally the Speed Rides have been grippy, stable and comfy when the engine does his part.

Ditto, tire pressure. I like the Speed Rides at around 40 psi front, 50 rear, on most terrain. Very forgiving and don't feel sluggish.

GeogreHudetz

Witterings never once blamed his equipment. He merely asked for opinions if different equipment would have avoided the crash. A perfectly reasonable question & discussion, and FAR from assigning blame or discrediting his tires. You, on the other hand, are perfectly happy to attempt to discredit him, even though you were never there.

It's too bad because the discussion about technique is equally valid, but you tainted it for no apparent reason.

Metieval

uncalled for man. enough is enough.

ksryder

Well he's now banned so we've got that going for us.

Witterings

I've been away for a couple of days so not been on here so have only just seen the posts of support (and he's gone in the meantime as well) .... just to say a big thank you for them!!!!!

I had actually written the most scathing of replies which I kept in drafts but in the end decided not to stoop to his level and post it ... maybe I should have

Thanks again