1989Pre 

I go to Map My Ride and write it down by hand as I examine the map. This way, I can be relatively-sure that everything is accurate.

indyfabz

Please post a link to your MySpace page.

Seriously…I map on RWGPS and type paper cue sheets. Helps me internalize the route.

On rare occasions, I will make a mistake, like indicating a left rather than a right. While on tour in 2017 I ran into a couple in Wallace, ID who had done poor planning and only had a high level map. One of my cue sheets was helpful to them, so I gave it to them. (I had extras.) Before I did, I noticed a mistake and corrected it with a pen. I think that made them wary. Sometimes wonder if they made it to Glacier N.P.

Carbonfiberboy 

Using RWGPS, download the CSV file, open it in a spreadsheet. Change the distance number property to 10ths not 100ths. Copy, open it in a word processor and create a table. Once you figure out how to make it look the way you want, save it and then reopen, getting rid of all the data, saving only the format as a template.

After creating or before using someone else's route, I run the RWGPS Review Cues tool on it. I can never believe how many errors people make on their RWGPS routes - which can totally mess you up if you're using a device. I think the commonest error is viewing the route too zoomed out and putting control points off to one side, thus creating extra false cues. I never use a route I haven't corrected.

big john

Both road clubs I ride with have cue sheets on their web pages. If you want one you can print it from there.

When I joined the main club in 1989 the club printed and kept paper files of all the route slips, or cue sheets. One guy had a room dedicated to these things and if there were 4 rides on the schedule he would take 4 stacks of the sheets to the ride start and pick up the unused ones after everyone had left, or after the ride if he was riding.

The old guard in the club fought against putting the routes on-line but eventually gave in. They also put the newsletter and other club stuff on the web. We used to collate and staple the newsletter at club monthly meetings.

njkayaker

I guess you aren’t carrying a phone.

A Garmin isn’t radiating while you are riding.

(There are a uses when it does but you don’t have to use them.)

1989Pre 

It seems to me that the unit (on the handlebars) would always be receiving a signal, and that when I am down in the drops, my body would be in contact with the unit, over the heart or thymus area. Maybe I am wrong about that. From what you are saying, it may be that the unit must be turned on before any sort of transmission occurs. Can you confirm? If so, thank you for the correction.
No, I do not carry a phone. As you may know, non-ionizing radiation levels must far-exceed those produced by a cell phone to actually break cell walls (creating conditions for cancer), but close-proximity to these devices does upset mitochondrial activity. This can lead to similar conditions. This is why I am wary of them.

From Energy Theory website:

If you use them daily for less than six hours, they are comparable to cell phones and should not be seen as a problem. Garmin equipment can lead to the absorption of non-ionizing and RF radiation by the skin because they are worn close to it.

1989Pre 

Exactly. It is this internalization that I have found to be effective. You use an impact type-writer? I thought I was the only one who still used one (only for formal communications, though). In other news, I don't use My Space (or ICQ) anymore. Sorry to dis-appoint.

njkayaker

“Receiving a signal” means the radiation is coming from somewhere else. So, you’d be exposed to that with or without a Garmin.

The devices can transmit radiation (they’d be a source in that case) but it would be at very low power since it’s not transmitting very far (a few feet). Cellphones are transmitting much longer distances. The Garmins try to conserve power, which means they’d minimize how often they’d transmit. Cellphones, when they are not being used, will also try to minimize transmission.

(Note that I have no interest in having you change whatever you choose to do or not do. The “mitochondria” thing sounds like something being promoted by Mercola.)

gif4445

Depends upon your ride & how much info you need. I used both RWGPS and self generated cue sheets on a coast to coast race. The cue sheet served as both backup navigation and to identify services, gaps in services and warnings to stock up on food and water. Also various sights along the way. Served me well.

1989Pre 

njkayaker, well.., when I reach for my cue sheet, I don't have to wonder whether it is on airplane or bluetooth mode. Dr. Mercola has a lot of good information, but he, like several naturopaths and functional medicine doctors, somewhat squandered their reputations by vaccine denial.

work4bike

Yeah, throw him to the wolves

njkayaker

Again, I’m not trying to get you to change what you are doing.

The Garmins are mostly in “airplane mode” (regarding transmission). So, there isn’t any need to wonder.


Mercola is not a reliable source of information. He might be right about some things but you should be able to get that information from people who haven’t “squandered their reputation”. In any case, his position on vaccines was expected from his prior reputation (which was bad).

1989Pre 

I can respect your opinion.

njkayaker

Having a sheet with this extra information could be useful.

Cue sheets are primarily a list of turns. This other stuff is kind of secondary. That is, you can have this stuff without needing the stuff that characterizes a cue sheet.

The turn information isn’t very useful as a backup. Anybody who has the time to train or participate in a cross country race should be able to afford a backup GPS.

PeteHski

I’m old enough to remember using cue sheets and paper maps to navigate routes. GPS has long since made those items totally redundant for me.

wolfchild

I always enjoyed reading and studying maps and don't use GPS...If I am going into an unknown area I will study Google Maps or paper maps and sometimes take a sheet of paper and make notes, drawings and sketches of the route which I plan on taking. I find it pretty easy to memorize routes from Google Maps and after riding them once it's in my memory forever.

terrymorse 

FWIW, here was the last format for route sheets I built manually for our bike tours. Before RWGPS was usable:




Following a GPS is much simpler.

jpescatore

The fatal flaw of depending on cue sheets (beyond how to carry them and keep the dry, etc) is when you miss a cue and keeping hoping you will see the next cue soon... I used to copy a map page on the back of the cue sheet but on long rides the resolution was so low you could never read road names to try to get back on track.

My Wahoo, and I'm sure all GPS units these days, gives you map view, cue sheet view etc. On multi-day rides I carry paper backup but could also use my phone as backup.

I do remember downloading a special Windows font for cue sheets back in the pre-GPS days.

dennis336

Interestingly, the D2R2 gravel ride - a fairly prominent gravel ride in Massachusetts/Vermont - has on their website the following:

PLEASE USE CUE SHEETS to navigate routes. Maps and GPS files are for basic reference but may have minor inconsistencies. In true Randonnee style - please use your cue sheet.

If you intend to only use a GPS to navigate the route, please at least take the time to read through the cue sheet pre-ride as it also contains important cautionary information as well as useful route divergence information.

They actually recommend using the cue sheets.

As an aside, I made up my own Google Maps/cue sheet for a ride I did yesterday. I was generally familiar with the area but wanted to do a specific loop and wasn't sure I'd recall it without the map.

indyfabz

Yeah. I will sometimes list things like that, especially if I think I might have to cut a day short due to something like weather.

Heh. Muddy Gap. Has to be the easiest crossing of the western Continental Divide. Haven't been there since 2000. Spent the night before in Jeffrey City and got up early to beat the wind on the way to Rawlins on July 4th. Saw several pronghorns.

Jeffrey City is a strange place with an interesting history. Talked about it with a one-legged woman at the bar in town. I see someone has revived the old JC Motel. I read a review shortly before it closed. The cycle tourist said there were mushrooms growing out of the carpet in his room. IIRC, that was late 2000s. Only motel I have ever stayed in that did not take credit cards. The old woman who took my money was on oxygen and smoking a cigarette.

indyfabz

I have done that event twice. I can understand why. Despite being in MA and VT, it uses some pretty remote roads. Some are old carriage roads still paved with cobbles. Might not be accurately captured on GPS or even maps.

Great event, BTW. I went to high school at Deerfield Academy. Four-year man. Class of '83. I have stopped by the campus a few times during tours from VT home to Philly. The juxtaposition of the luxury (e.g., relatively new, $82 million athletic complex with indoor hockey rink) and nearby Greenfield, which supposedly has the highest rate of opioid addiction in MA, is striking.

dennis336

Oh, wow, small world! I'm in Central CT - about an hour from Deerfield. I haven't done the formal D2R2 ride but, speaking of cue sheets, I have gone to their site, printed down some cue sheets and have driven up several times to piece together different sections of the course. Couple times I made my way over to the Jacksonville Country Store - one of those classic VT general stores - for a break, refreshment and, if lucky, homemade cookies!

But, yeah, a beautiful area albeit relentlessly hilly. I can survive fairly long climbs if the grade is moderate but I don't have many of those steep gravel climbs left in these 70 year old legs!

(Didn't realize that about Greenfield - really sad. CT has also had very high drug/opiod overdose deaths).

njkayaker

With or without GPS?

You don’t need maps to use a GPS if you have a track. The road conditions seems irrelevant. The maps don’t have to be very accurate either.

If they can create a cue sheet, they can update the Openstreetmap map. If they are riding the route to verify the cue sheet, they can get a track.

If the ride is basically the same course every year, there is even less reason not to update the maps.

This ride could be one where supplemental information is more necessary than usual.

A major problem with cue sheets (being not very useful if you go off them) would likely be much more of a problem on this sort of ride.

They provide GPS routes on RWGPS. The cue sheets are in RWGPS (with extensive updates).

https://www.franklinlandtrust.org/d2r2-routes/

All of the 180k is on roads that are on the map (Google and OSM).

This seems partly motivated by “tradition”. It also may partly be a CYA thing because the cue sheets might have warnings that they don’t want people to not read.

I don’t think this ends up being any argument that “cue sheets are better”.

The real question is how many of the riders use GPS. I bet it’s most of them. The organizers probably realize that.

njkayaker

Mostly for "tradition" and for CYA. I suspect.

I suspect most of the participants use GPS. If so, it's likely that the organizers are aware of it.

dennis336

That could well be that many do use a GPS although I've always ridden the course on my own so can't tell, INDYFAZ may have noticed when he road the formal event. As you noted, it may be partly tradition as the ride organizers do generally promote the idea of being independent and able to figure things out ... like finding your way around, doing on-the-spot repairs (don't quote me but I don't think they have SAG support) and, if needed, making the call of shame to get a ride home (at least with my carrier, much of the courses are out of cell range). But some of the roads are pretty sketchy so probably the cue sheet at least as an alternative is probably a good idea (they don't mark the turns on the roads like many group/charity rides).

Full disclosure, while I don't have a bike gps, I would download an offline map of the area and, if I was confused on the timing to make a turn, would zero in on my current location to see if I appeared to be on track. At least for the times I used the off-line maps, I was able to confirm my location.