Bianchigirll 

Good Morning. Is there anyone, hopefully reasonably close to me, who would do an AO bath and inside frame for me? I know some of you have done it several times with fabulous results and I would like to find someone to do a MAX tube Bianchi for me. The frame will of course arrived completely stripped of all parts. If interested it may be more than one frame over a period of time.

Alternatively how hard hard is it? I have no garage or hose just a back yard

mixteup

It's actually pretty easy - Here's a tutorial :
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=351132

You can use a kiddie pool, if the frame fits, or make a frame from 2x8's, and line it with plastic sheet, or just dig a hole in the ground, and line it.
It's not a violent acid reaction at all - No bubbling / foaming or anything like that .
It actually takes a while - Maybe 24 hrs +/-

It won't remove paint or affect chrome, so the original finish will be safe, if that's important.
HOWEVER - Do NOT soak a red-painted frame, if you want to save the paint - The OA will fade RED paint, due to the iron oxide pigments in it.

Oh, one more thing - You need to de-grease the frame pretty good, first - The OA won't work well if there's a coating of grease or oil

nlerner

I've used a bike box with one side cut off then lined with heavy weight plastic as an AO tub. It's easy to set up that way, but kind of a problem when you decide you don't want it any longer. Hard to siphon off all of that liquid!

bikemig 

Can you just neutralize it with baking soda and dump it on the ground? I was thinking of doing that behind my garage. Frankly if it kills off some of the growth back there, that's fine with me.

vintagerando

I started off slow, in a controlled manner when using this; gloves, long sleeves, eye protection. I used a 5 gal bucket from Homedepot; mixed a weak solution and dunked a couple components to see how it work. After I was done, i used baking soda to neutralize. Watch for splashing while you work.

jethin

MrK.

Just acid, not toxic. Think lemons or limes.

jethin

wrk101

OA is commonly sold as wood bleach, made to clean wood fences and decks. Any idea how people cleaning decks and fences dispose of the liquid? Realize if made correctly, the solution should be about 99.5% water.

Check the chemical composition of what people spread on their lawns and shrubs sometime.

On making up a bath, I tend to do it in a campaign. Save up 4 to 6 frames, make a bath, and do all six (separately of course). I continuously keep a small container of solution in my utility sink for small parts.

bikemig 

thrifty bill a/k/a @wk101 is pretty much the guru on OA baths,

Don't you have detailed instructions on a website somewhere?

wrk101

Then with this logic, you wouldn't drink orange juice, put vinegar on a salad, or drink a Coke. Oxalic acid appears naturally in many fresh foods so better cross them off your diet. Oops, you also have acid in your stomach. Ever wonder why they sell antacids?

Vinegar = acetic acid. Look that one up, it should scare the crap out of most people.

Stomach acid = hydrochloric acid

Orange juice contains citric acid.

Active ingredient in chloraseptic (the stuff you spray into your mouth) = phenol.

Coke contains phosphoric acid (not limited to Coke either)

Sulfuric acid is an approved food additive in Europe.



Its all about concentration. Chemicals that are deadly at high concentration levels and yet be beneficial at very low concentration levels. 100% phenol is deadly, get enough on your skin and in just a few minutes you go into a coma and die. Some chemicals are not beneficial at any concentration.


thrifty bill
licensed chemical engineer

jethin

No. By my logic (contra the false equivalence) citric acid != oxalic acid != sulfuric acid. And of course this includes relative concentration. I’m happy to ingest orange juice; concentrated oxalic acid, no thank you.

But hey, it sounds like you have experience with strong acids and enjoy working with them, so be my guest. Personally I don’t think it’s worth it.

I meant only to suggest an alternative to the OP, so I’ll be bowing out of this thread now. Happy holidays.

wrk101

OA solution I use on rust is between 0.25 to 0.5% Thats one part acid in 200 to 400 parts water. If you feel that is concentrated, OK. There are several reasons to use such dilute concentrations. First, it works. Secondly, it lowers the hazard. Third, it's cheaper.

malcala622

I think bianchigirl would prefer to have this done by someone and would gladly compensate for the service.

I know there's many methods in doing the OA bath but like myself i would've gone the same route as OP.

Simply paying someone to do it.

TimmyT 

I got one of those plastic planters from the hardware store and did the four outside tubes. Fill that with warm water, and then mix the dry acid flakes in. You can't get the seat tube, but that's the only one you can actually get into to clean with a brush. Mixing the acid takes a few minutes. Waiting takes longer. Neutralize it with baking soda.

It's a weak acid, so doesn't dissociate completely. It's in the same family as acetic acid, but varies in its activity.

Phil_gretz

I wish that I lived closer to IA, because I would gladly do an OA bath for anyone. I built a small wooden frame/bottomless pool that's just right for a 59-60 cm diamond frame. I place a thick vinyl pool liner into it, and fill it with a 5 gallon bucket that I mix and fill with the right concentration OA. Covering the frame takes between 20 and 25 gallons. It works a charm, and when done, I can scoop out and refill the bucket, neutralize and then pour off one at a time. I did two frames just in August this year. I've been doing it this way for a few years and dozens of frames.

When rinsing the liner and drying it before folding it away, the process very lightly bleaches my driveway and keeps it looking clean. A bonus!

bikemig 

I like this. OK I'm doing this in my driveway!

Bianchigirll 

That was the idea. I am living with sister and I don't think she would be keen on a tub of acid sitting on her small patio. Plus I thought if it was someone close I could make a weekend trip and meet a fan or two or uh rather a member or two.

mixteup

If you were closer, I'd do it for the cost of materials - It's really not a big deal.
Would need at least 24hrs +/- for the process - Longer in cold weather, since probably doing it outdoors.

Bianchigirll 

It takes 24 hours?

mixteup

Yes, usually - Less if it's warm, more if it's cold - it's just chemistry

Regardless of what some posters feel, this is NOT a dangerously powerful, reactive acid -
It's used at a low concentration, and has only an affinity for ferric oxide (rust) - It won't even harm the paint (unless it's red paint).
In cool weather, I've had things soaking for a COUPLE days, to get all the rust - It doesn't further attack the steel, after the rust is gone.
So, plan on at least 24 hrs if you find someone that will do it, and it's going to be outside, or in an unheated building, etc.

Patience, Grasshopper ............

oddjob2

Obviously not familiar with the midwest. Fort Wayne, Indiana and Iowa are miles apart.

BG,

• Get a box, a heavy duty PVC drop cloth, and Barkeepers Friend ($3.00) for another day . Or get a free tarp from HF with their coupon.
• While you're at HD, get Savogran Wood Bleach.
• Line the box with tarp or pvc drop cloth.
• Fill the box with warm water, dump in about 1/4 the container of wood bleach. Stir with paint stick and dip your frame. Soak until you're happy.

OA is pretty harmless. Barkeepers Friend contains OA. I don't usually wear gloves for either OA or BF and I still have all my fingers and nails.

Phil_gretz

Shoot. Darned abbreviations. That's why I'm not a Jeopardy champion...

repechage

CycleryNorth81

This is what PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) looks like: