dvdslw

Does anyone know if the di2 wireless adapter will work with an android phone? My Note 4 has ant+ built in but so it can but is there software to download? I like the idea of having a battery level and gear selection indicators but don't want to spend the money for a garmin 1000.

WheresWaldo

No, The SM-EWW01 is Private ANT not ANT+. This means that Shimano is using a private communication protocol, so no communication is currently possible between it and your phone.

dvdslw

I see the Garmin 510 is compatible with di2 so that's not too bad, found them for around $300 and it appears there's 3rd party software in development so Android and I-phone apps are coming.

WheresWaldo

Don't guess here, unless Shimano decides to change to a public ANT+ protocol stack no third party will connect. Shimano is one of those companies that only does what will benefit Shimano (as is their right as the world's largest bicycle component manufacturer) There are already several apps that use the ANT+ protocol for both IOS and Android, none will incorporate Private ANT. ANT+ is public and Garmin's recommended way of interacting with multiple devices and software platforms.

If you feel the need to verify, go to ThisisANT.com and read the specs published there. https://www.thisisant.com/developer/a...tplus-defined/

velociraptor

The Garmin Edge (X)10 devices now connect with Di2.

From Garmin Announces Software Updates for Edge 1000, 810 and 510 » Garmin Blog

"Shimano Di2 Integration – The Edge 810 and 510 now integrate with compatible Shimano Di2 systems, allowing cyclists to view gearing on their devices. Additionally, the Edge 1000, 810 and 510 all offer expanded integration capabilities by including the ability to remotely control the device using Dura Ace Di2 systems."

WheresWaldo

@velociraptor
Why did you bother to quote me.

What I wrote is 100% correct and answered to OP's original question, he wanted to connect the SM-EWW01 to his Samsung smartphone, not Garmin devices. Garmin owns ANT / ANT+ and they worked with Shimano to incorporate Shimano's use of Private ANT within the Edge computers. That doesn't change the fact that ANT and ANT+ do not communicate with one another. The Edge units can communicate to any ANT+ accessory and specifically to Shimano's Private ANT.

BTW most Sony Xperia phones also support ANT+, and guess what, they can't connect to the SM-EWW01 either.

dvdslw

So far I found Garmin, Pro, Magellan, and Magellan's offshoot Mio branded cycling computers to work withe the wireless adapter. I've been thinking about getting a Garmin unit anyway so this will help push me over the edge, pardon the pun!

I had found an article that said Smartphone software would be available down the road to work with the Di2 but it was for recording data from the Garmin not reading live data from the Di2, I misinterpreted the info.

R1lee

it would work if your riding software that you are using on your Samsung had authorization from shimano to turn it on. The private ant protocol is still based on ant+ chipset. But the software company needs to contact shimano for this to happen, and I highly doubt they would.

WheresWaldo

This is the only current way to do this. I wouldn't wait for Shimano to do anything with other 3rd parties. Just remember they are not a software company and people who bought their CM-1000 Action Cam, released in July 2014 are still waiting for their editing software. Like I said, its the way Shimano works.

Also note that depending on how you want to communicate between smartphone and cyclo-computer you may also need a bluetooth connection. With the Edge 810,1000, that's how they get phone messages and weather alerts to pop up on the Edge units, otherwise it goes from Edge to Smartphone only. With ANT+ sensors you could connect the sensors directly to your phone, provided the app your using has incorporated the correct profiles within it. Their have been many people including DCRainMaker that have asked Shimano to submit their Private profile to ANT to add it to the ANT+ public profiles, it doesn't appear that Shimano is interested.

JeremyLC

I'd like more technical detail about how ANT/ANT+ profiles work. Is private ANT encrypted? Or, is it kind of like OBD/OBDII codes where you need a manufacturer's specific decoder to turn the unencrypted data into something useful? If it's not encrypted, someone could, conceivably use a BT radio to sniff the signals and eventually decoded them into a usable profile. Even if it IS encrypted, depending on the type of encryption - algorithm, key length, etc. - it may still be possible to brute-force it. (or, if their developers accidentally left a key laying around somewhere)

That said, I can't make any claims for the legality distributing such a profile, should one make one.

WheresWaldo

I posted this earlier, but basically it uses an encryption key and specific frequencies in the BT band. ANT+ is all public and uses a reserved frequency to communicate, private ANT can use a number of frequencies as well as nearly any key (except for those reserved for ANT+). Here is a link with a simplified explanation:

ANT / ANT+ Defined - THIS IS ANT

You can download all the technical specs from that site and start your own developing for ANT enabled devices, its all there free for the taking. I do believe certification costs, but the tools are free.

rcoulsell

I know that this thread has been quiet for a while... I am curious if anyone has experience reading firmware for any of the wireless di2 supported devices? I have tried to no avail to decompile the code.

Trying to find the above referenced network key so I can begin analyzing the transmissions from my wireless Di2 device using my ant usb stick. I just want the ability to view this on my Samsung Android Phone, Reconjet glasses, computer screen during virtual training sessions, etc. Don't want to have to pick up a Garmin, Mio, or Shimano computer/watch to be able to do it.

Appreciate anyone's help! I have time and energy, just stuck on the decompile (tried Binwalk, played around with IDA, etc.)

RogueShoten

The trick with ANT-Private is that it's like ANT+, with the extension of security. ANT+ is designed to be incredibly open...think TCP/IP back in the early 80s, where every member of ARPANET was trusted and everything was all kumbaya. That's the ANT+ model, because what does it matter if someone's able to interfere with your heart monitor by doing a prolonged burst send, right? But when you add features like shifting on a Shimano Di2 drivetrain, all of a sudden you've turned ANT (be it ANT+, ANT, or private-ANT) into the communications backbone of a control system. What's to keep someone from triggering a couple of upshifts for everyone around them just as the whole peloton nears the finish line? What's to keep someone from jamming all shifting? This is what private-ANT is meant to prevent...WheresWaldo's allegations aside, that this is some market-based ploy for Shimano (despite the fact that other vendors are now becoming compatible).


That said, have you done any hardware hacking? What are you trying to decompile? I would say that your best bet is to configure a shifter and then disassemble it. Use a bus-pirate to pull what you can off any microcontrollers you find (you'll probably only find one). If you've not done hardware hacking, then you'll have a bit of an uphill battle on this, since you have to learn how to research the chips you find, how to connect to whichever interface (almost certainly either SPI or I2C) they use, and so on...but if you know about IDA Pro, you definitely have a leg up on most people with regard to this.

Also, since I don't know the procedure for setting up a Di2 drivetrain, I wonder: what pairs the shifters with the derailleurs? Are they pre-paired out of the box...and if so, what's the procedure for pairing if you have to replace a broken derailleur or shifter? If you know RF hacking, then that's a bit of attack surface you can go after as well, if you can set up RFCat or get a HackRF. The benefit of this is that if you hit the jackpot by listening in on the pairing conversation (assuming it's not particularly well-encrypted...ANT+ uses only 64-bit crypto, which means it sure isn't AES since that requires a 128-bit key at a minimum) then you don't have to do destructive testing on an expensive piece of hardware.

Scummer

As I've been digging into Di2 with a smart phone and trying to show Di2 information over ANT+ protocol I have also found out, that you now can actually take someone elses Di2 shifting mode over and switch between manual, semi-synchro and synchro shift.
Other than that, I have yet to come across a google link that has been successful in deassembling the software from Garmin, Wahoo or the ETube Project Software to find the ANT private network key.
Sucks, especially with the possibilities of controlling the shifting from the smart phone and maybe write a program that automatically shifts for you based on power, cadence, heart rate and climbing delta rate data.

Ow well