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license and insurance

Old 04-30-15, 12:27 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
You 'liberals' are all the same - trying to deflect the blame from where it really lies... it is all the fault of Osam... er... Obama!

For Canadians, please substitute 'Conservatives' for Liberals, and 'Harper' for 'Obama'
IAW the A&S Legal Scholarship Grand Dragon it must be the fault of all dem gol dang b-crats; everything else is, ain't it?
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Old 04-30-15, 07:19 PM
  #52  
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The L.A. bicycle code

Originally Posted by no1mad View Post
**EDIT: As is/was pointed out later in thread, I mistakenly got Torrance confused with Tarzana **Well, it is depending on where that sidewalk happens to be.

You might have missed it, but there is a link to an alphabetized listing of towns and their bicycle laws.

https://library.municode.com/HTML/16...GE_S62.1.4RISI

That being said, it would have been nice if the OP had included that link.

Personally, I don't really see what the fuss is about- some people just lack the confidence to ride on the street. Quite frankly, I'd rather someone illegally ride the sidewalk than be a salmon rider any day.
First of all, thank you for posting these links to codes which I would assume EVERY cyclist does or should know. I know the vehicle codes!
I am happy to read the L.A. city bicycles code (to any interested bikers reading this post = look it up for your self if you're even interested) and, even though I, as a pedestrian, am not expected to know bicycle codes, it is worth it to realize that I no longer need to question or confront folks riding a bike on the sidewalk near here UNLESS they are "riding in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property". I have seen a few of those but, generally the riders are careful so, even though most of them have never heard of such codes, at least I know what the law says so I am quite relieved even though I disagree with the code. LOL, perhaps others will read this and become significantly informed. The one cyclist I talk with did not give a rat's ass about any code or laws and treated me very badly but it would have gone much better if he has simply quoted the city code for my education and then we might have parted as happy friends instead of angry hostiles.
Thanks again for the info,
jim
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Old 04-30-15, 07:28 PM
  #53  
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Learn the law

Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
This is the OP 4th thread or resurrected thread that I've seen on this subject. Before this you had no presence on this board. What do you want from us?
DUH - learn the laws and codes that apply to your vehicle!
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Old 04-30-15, 08:14 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
DUH - learn the laws and codes that apply to your vehicle!
Did anything make you assume we don't know the traffic laws and codes related to bicycles?
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Old 04-30-15, 08:14 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
First of all, thank you for posting these links to codes which I would assume EVERY cyclist does or should know. I know the vehicle codes!
I am happy to read the L.A. city bicycles code (to any interested bikers reading this post = look it up for your self if you're even interested) and, even though I, as a pedestrian, am not expected to know bicycle codes, it is worth it to realize that I no longer need to question or confront folks riding a bike on the sidewalk near here UNLESS they are "riding in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property". I have seen a few of those but, generally the riders are careful so, even though most of them have never heard of such codes, at least I know what the law says so I am quite relieved even though I disagree with the code. LOL, perhaps others will read this and become significantly informed. The one cyclist I talk with did not give a rat's ass about any code or laws and treated me very badly but it would have gone much better if he has simply quoted the city code for my education and then we might have parted as happy friends instead of angry hostiles.
Thanks again for the info,
jim
No need to thank me as I merely followed a link provided by another and then mistakenly clicked on Torrance instead of Tarzana (which doesn't have a link).
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Old 04-30-15, 08:50 PM
  #56  
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Jimrich: You would make an excellent advocate for bicycle lanes and infrastructure. As a taxpayer you would not want the bloated bureaucracy and expenses of bicycle licensing. Bicycle lanes are much cheaper and cost effective. As a pedestrian, you want to get cyclists off the sidewalks. As a motorist, you don't want another vehicle in your way. Put them in bike lanes and let the other cyclists worry about the reskless and ingorant riders. As a motorist and a pedestrian, but not a cyclist, you would give the authorities a fresh perpective on the need for a comprehensive infrastructure for cyclists.
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Old 04-30-15, 09:07 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
Why stop there? Skateboarders, roller skaters, rollerbladers, scooter riders, the list goes on. Heck, I've been walked into by pedestrians too busy texting to watch where they are going.
Don't forget to add dogs and cats to the licensing and insurance... well, many places require a license, but don't have very stringent requirements to acquire them.

At what age do you wish to license bikers?

3 yrs old?
5 yrs old?

Don't forget that many adult cyclists actually do have valid drivers licenses, although, in some cases, it has been taken away by the government.

A lack of insurance doesn't dismiss liability for one's actions. If I run into a legally parked car, and damage the car, I would be liable for the damages. Likewise if I run down a pedestrian, I would be liable for that. And, the person being harmed could come after my retirement and every asset I own. Of course an 18 yr old may not have a lot of assets, but they do have a lifetime worth of earning potential.

The biggest issue is that bikes are often at the receiving end of accidents, and are harmed much more by cars than they harm the cars. Even things like "being doored" is usually considered the fault of the person in the car.

Bicycle Safety Training certainly is important, and I would encourage all schools to incorporate it in their curriculum, as well as having safety training exhibits at fairs and other places where kids congregate. Perhaps also snag some newbie adults.
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Old 04-30-15, 09:36 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
Look up the code!
What code are you referring to? Point me to one that contradicts or supersedes Los Angeles Municipal Code §56.15, which allows riding on sidewalks unless it's done "with a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property".
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Old 04-30-15, 09:46 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by daihard View Post
Did anything make you assume we don't know the traffic laws and codes related to bicycles?
I'll admit to not being intimately familiar with the myriad municipal codes regarding bicycle use on sidewalks and town-specific parking rules. I may go through 20 or more municipalities in a given day, each of which has their own set of codes, incl. many that are hard to find with a casual search. I depend instead on the California Vehicle Code as it relates to road operation of bicycles and insures a degree of uniformity throughout the state (and by virtue of most state codes being similar to the national Uniform Vehicle Code there is at least some level of similarity across state lines). Operating a bicycle on a sidewalk strikes me as needlessly dangerous except in relatively rare circumstances and then only when done with extreme care.

But I'd expect someone (like Jim) who goes around accosting others for their supposed code violations to at least have gone to the trouble of looking them up for his own community so as not to make false accusations.
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Old 05-01-15, 07:42 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
DUH - learn the laws and codes that apply to your vehicle!
One thread would be sufficient. It's a bit annoying and diffuses your own effort have all these cross post.

However, your wonderful attitude has totally convinced me of your point...duh!
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Old 05-01-15, 08:35 AM
  #61  
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Locally, our city officials tried to enact a city wide ban on sidewalk riding, but scaled back to various business districts, due to the expense in manpower needed to enact the ban, or to install standardized bicycle infrastructure with an already tight city budget. The same scenario goes as well in trying to enforce a bicycle insurance/license/registration ordinance, with a large percentage of the cyclists riding a bicycle due to their lack of financing to pay the aforementioned, or any subsequent fines.
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Old 05-01-15, 11:39 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
I keep meeting ignorant, unlicensed and careless bikers who ride on the sidewalks here
They may well be ignorant, but you have no proof that they do not have a driver's permit. Most adult cyclists do
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Old 05-01-15, 12:11 PM
  #63  
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OP, how's that working out for you? Getting all up in some ones face and telling them how someone should ride. Maybe one should look where they are walking, for the benefit of all in society. Some states do not require auto insurance, go figure. Just get a bill passed, should be a breeze.
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Old 05-01-15, 12:20 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
They may well be ignorant, but you have no proof that they do not have a driver's permit. Most adult cyclists do
That's OK. A&S sometimes gets an unlicensed poster spouting all sorts of ignorant gibberish.
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Old 05-01-15, 12:29 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
That's OK. A&S sometimes gets an unlicensed poster spouting all sorts of ignorant gibberish.
I'd really like to become "licensed" as a poster. Can you provide a reference and link to the license bureau? Otherwise I fear i will continue to spout ignorant gibberish. OTOH, I like spewing ignorant gibberish.
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Old 05-01-15, 12:47 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I'm not biting, this smells of a fake nube troll.
Writing style reminds me of FaceThem.
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Old 05-01-15, 03:03 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
"riding in a willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property".
jim
Here's the link where that came from.
LADOT Bicycle Services - Bicycling in Los Angeles - Bicycles & the Law

Did you scroll two bullet points above where it describes licensing of bicycles? It was repealed!!!

  • Bicycle Licenses Required (LAMC 26.01) Ordinance repealed on June 2, 2009. Bicycle licenses are no longer required in the City of Los Angeles. Please carry identification when riding a bicycle and be sure children have identification as well in the form of an identification bracelet, sticker in their helmet, or bicycle registration with a private firm. In addition there are various ways of identifying your bicycle in the event it is stolen, photos and making a note of the serial number as well as including an identifier in the seat tube of the bicycle.

And here's the history of bicycle licensing for Toronto, where I'm from.

Licensing - Cycling and the Law - Cycling | City of Toronto

The issues and reasons are just about the same everywhere.
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Old 05-01-15, 03:24 PM
  #68  
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Most if not all of the California cities that have or had mandatory licensing originally did it as a way of registering the serial number in case of theft. If you search through the municipal codes you'll notice they use similar verbiage. In the past several years people have looked into the licensing as a way to have some sort of governmental control over cyclists but that has been met with strong opposition from advocacy groups.

This article about cyclists being cited for no license is from 2010. Since then, Long Beach has removed it's license requirement. Cyclists cited, bikes impounded in Long Beach Critical Mass ride | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times
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Old 05-01-15, 03:45 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post

Then again, maybe we should install street view cameras everywhere, and have every human have a bar code tattooed on his/her forehead so if anything happens the authorities can easily identify and track down the people responsible. If tattoos are cosmetically unacceptable, RFID technology is now so good that we could plan a chip in everyone's ear in a way that it won't be noticeable, and place readers all over to help match identities to the photos taken by security cams.

Now you're talkin' ! Finally, someone I can relate to!!
For awhile, I thought I was just the only one!!!

(still searching for sarcasm emoticon......)
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Old 05-01-15, 04:03 PM
  #70  
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It's apparent that with all the dangerous bicyclists on the sidewalks threatening pedestrians right and left, willie and nillie (whoever they are) , that it has become necessary to require NHTSC helmets for all pedestrians. Pedestrians are obviously taking too great a risk and without mandatory insurance are shifting the costs of their risk onto society in general. Either pedestrians should be required to carry no-fault casualty insurance ( after all, how can you sue a 5 y.o.?) to defray the costs of their injuries or they should be required to wear adequate protective equipment to minimize the risk. Mandatory pedestrian licenses should require implied consent to interrogation, search, and identification. Proof of insurance needs to be stapled to the pedestrians forehead in such a manner as it is clearly visible for inspection by law enforcement without the requirement that the pedestrian's protective helmet be removed. After all, removing one's helmet in the presence of law enforcement is wantonly reckless.
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Old 05-01-15, 04:29 PM
  #71  
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Troll : One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a forum with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
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Old 05-01-15, 04:57 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post

(still searching for sarcasm emoticon......)
Don't need one. They either figure it out or they don't. If they don't, they weren't who you were speaking to anyway.
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Old 05-01-15, 06:09 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Jimrich: You would make an excellent advocate for bicycle lanes and infrastructure. As a taxpayer you would not want the bloated bureaucracy and expenses of bicycle licensing. Bicycle lanes are much cheaper and cost effective. As a pedestrian, you want to get cyclists off the sidewalks. As a motorist, you don't want another vehicle in your way. Put them in bike lanes and let the other cyclists worry about the reskless and ingorant riders. As a motorist and a pedestrian, but not a cyclist, you would give the authorities a fresh perpective on the need for a comprehensive infrastructure for cyclists.
But the problem with bike lanes can be that then drivers assume you must always use it, even if it hasn't been cleared or some other issue like bike lane in the door zone etc.
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Old 05-01-15, 09:26 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by dpeters11 View Post
But the problem with bike lanes can be that then drivers assume you must always use it, even if it hasn't been cleared or some other issue like bike lane in the door zone etc.
It's NOT a problem with bike lanes, It's a problem with uneducated road users.
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Old 05-01-15, 11:19 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by dpeters11 View Post
But the problem with bike lanes can be that then drivers assume you must always use it, even if it hasn't been cleared or some other issue like bike lane in the door zone etc.
Well, since we are talking about California, the drivers would essentially be right; this is a mandatory use state (if a bike lane exists on the street you're on, you are requred by law to ride in it). Fortunately there are enough exceptions listed in the law that it might be difficult to successfully prosecute someone for not using the bike lane, although I don't expect the argument that the door zone constitutes a hazard in the bike lane would work in court.
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