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Old 10-22-18, 07:36 AM
  #5251  
TDinBristol
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Just a quick observation/question after watching some of the World Cup over the weekend.
In both the Women's and Men's team sprint, teams failed because Rider 1 skidded the rear tire coming out of the starting gate and couldn't recover (see Day 1 at about the 40-minute mark on the UCI's video post). It seemed the reason was simple - the back tire lost traction. But why? Is it that these riders are leaning too far forward on the front tire, trying to get more power, or is it at the starting gate (i.e., trying to go a fraction of a second before the gate releases)? Or is it the wooden track, maybe an less-familiar surface than one's home track? It seems this is happening a lot more, and it's got to be disappointing to train that hard for that long and lose because the tire slips.
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Old 10-22-18, 08:13 AM
  #5252  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
My three usual tracks area 400, a 333 and a 250. I usually ride pretty much the same gear on all of them, maybe a tooth up in front on the 250. I find my top speeds are a bit higher on the 250, but the times are pretty close between all three tracks.
thats really interesting - I will focus more on technique between the tracks rather than worrying about gearing so much then.
i honestly thought there would be bigger gear variance between the track styles but this at least means thereís one less variable to worry about come race day.
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Old 10-22-18, 08:32 AM
  #5253  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post


thats really interesting - I will focus more on technique between the tracks rather than worrying about gearing so much then.
i honestly thought there would be bigger gear variance between the track styles but this at least means there’s one less variable to worry about come race day.
Maybe consider doing Flying 100s with a full windup and note your 100m split time and max speed. Doing full Flying 200s can be taxing and that last 100m the most taxing. You can learn what you need to know about your windup and gearing using the first 100m.

To estimate your Flying 200m time, double the 100m split time and add 0.1”. That should get you close and save your legs for more tests.

EDIT:

I'm not sure how much experience you have on the tracks that you intend to race on. But, I think your windup strategies (e.g. when to accelerate, when to relax, when to jump out of the saddle, where to start the dive, etc...) will have more of an effect on your time than a few gear inches up or down. For example, at DLV, adjusting your "jump" point several meters forwards or back will greatly affect your time. That jump point also depends on what gear you have on. It's all sort of mingled together.

Last edited by carleton; 10-22-18 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-22-18, 10:23 AM
  #5254  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post


thats really interesting - I will focus more on technique between the tracks rather than worrying about gearing so much then.
i honestly thought there would be bigger gear variance between the track styles but this at least means thereís one less variable to worry about come race day.
The only real applicable instance of "drastically" altering your gearing, is for really short tracks. A 250 isn't short enough to affect gearing. It's The really tight turns that make it harder for news and average weekend warriors to carry speed through the banks.

I've ridden 200m tracks that were both round and cigar shaped, these being Rochester Hills and the old Bromont Velodromes.

The old Bromont Velodrome was a 166m track that was already slightly oblong because it was constructed as a temporary velodrome that went into a hockey arena. It then got each straight lengthened by 17m to make for a 200m track when it found its permanent home in Bromont. Riding this track was not for the faint of heart (54*banks) and was really like shooting into the corkscrew of a rollercoaster after coming in on that "long-ish" straight. As a 16yo I was pulling roughly 2.5G in the banks and the amount of compression really made it hard to pedal compared to other tracks. Rochester Hills was the opposite, and rode much like a 250, as the track was rounder with shorter straights and gentler banks, making it super easy to carry your speed through the turns.

As an aside, besides gearing, the tactics for racing on these two tracks (despite being the same length) were quite different. A shallower banking puts a passing rider further to the outside than a steeper banking does, as a stepper banking "stacks" the riders more. A shallower track makes it much more important to make the most of a passing attempt on the straight. A steeper track with long straights offers quite an advantage for the passing rider as theet is less distance penalty, yet you really shoot out and down the track as you come out of the turn. The right and long tracks make for more exciting racing to watch in my opinion.
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Old 10-23-18, 03:10 AM
  #5255  
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Originally Posted by TDinBristol View Post
Just a quick observation/question after watching some of the World Cup over the weekend.
In both the Women's and Men's team sprint, teams failed because Rider 1 skidded the rear tire coming out of the starting gate and couldn't recover (see Day 1 at about the 40-minute mark on the UCI's video post). It seemed the reason was simple - the back tire lost traction. But why? Is it that these riders are leaning too far forward on the front tire, trying to get more power, or is it at the starting gate (i.e., trying to go a fraction of a second before the gate releases)? Or is it the wooden track, maybe an less-familiar surface than one's home track? It seems this is happening a lot more, and it's got to be disappointing to train that hard for that long and lose because the tire slips.
I have a similar issue to this and can't seem to find help anywhere. I start skipping my back wheel around revs 3-7, it settles down into turn 1 of the 250m track then does it again as I exit turn 2 into the straight while still accelerating out of the saddle. It doesn't seem to matter what wheels I'm using. I'm guessing the reason it settles down in the turn is the extra forces applying more grip...but can't find a way to fix it.
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Old 10-23-18, 04:45 AM
  #5256  
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Originally Posted by ruudlaff View Post
I'm guessing the reason it settles down in the turn is the extra forces applying more grip...but can't find a way to fix it.
If you keep your butt over the seat yoully see this go away. Watch videos of kilo starts. Everyone is straight arming and keeping their butts back over the saddle.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-23-18 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 10-23-18, 08:30 AM
  #5257  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
If you keep your assistance over the seat yoully see this go away. Watch videos of kilo starts. Everyone is straight arming and keeping their butts back over the saddle.
Willing to give anything a try
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Old 10-23-18, 10:05 AM
  #5258  
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Originally Posted by ruudlaff View Post
Willing to give anything a try
Its not to say that you can't move forward to get more leverage over the pedals, but you have to keep your hips/center of gravity behind the front wheel. If you feel the seat brush the back of your thighs asayou pedal, then your in a good spot to start from.

Think "monkey humping a tennis ball" as Ryan Bailey once put it, with the tennis ball being the back of your stem.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-23-18 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 10-24-18, 07:04 PM
  #5259  
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Anybody know what type of bearings are in a Mavic iO? I found this info before, but now I can't seem to dig it up, all I find is the magic bearing kit online. Thanks
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Old 10-24-18, 08:11 PM
  #5260  
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Originally Posted by baby puke View Post
anybody know what type of bearings are in a mavic io? I found this info before, but now i can't seem to dig it up, all i find is the magic bearing kit online. Thanks
6001. You can double check it if you have the wheel available. Mavic part #M40318 . 12mm ID, 28mm OD, 8mm deep = 6001 bearing.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-24-18 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 10-24-18, 09:42 PM
  #5261  
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Thanks Taras!
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Old 10-24-18, 10:23 PM
  #5262  
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No prob! Any 6001 bearing will fit, but you will want seals/shields too. A straight 6001 bearing will have open races. You'll need the suffix designation as well. "RS" means rubber seal on one side. "2RS" is robber seal on both sides. "Z" designates a metal shield or "seal". "ZZ" or "2Z" is shielded on both sides.

Rubber provides a better seal, but metal shields offer way lower rolling resistance. I'd opt for 6001 ZZ/6001 2Z. They are the same bearing

You could go for 6001Z (single shield/one side only) for even lower resistance, facing the open sides inwards, but you would have to service your bearings frequently, and that's not so bueno for cartridge bearings.
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Old 10-25-18, 04:54 AM
  #5263  
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^ If it's a primarily indoor (or race only outdoor so long as it's a track and not road or exposed to the elements) you can get by with no seals fairly safely. Just check every once in a while.
I did that on my road TT wheels for years running low fill grease. (although I did some extra precautions if the weather sucked)

It doesn't save you much admittedly
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Old 10-27-18, 08:58 PM
  #5264  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
6001. You can double check it if you have the wheel available. Mavic part #M40318 . 12mm ID, 28mm OD, 8mm deep = 6001 bearing.
Hey Taras, just FYI (and to other iO owners), it looks like the bearings are actually 61901, 24x12x6mm. The one's in this wheel are NMB r2412zz (though only one metal shield is fitted) which I cross referenced to the SKF number.

Also, for Mavic newbies (like me...) the axle is a slight interference fit, and needs to be lightly tapped out (screwdriver handle works). But be careful, the axle is aluminum and has EXTREMELY fine threads that look super easy to damage! So take care when removing/installing.
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Old 10-27-18, 11:31 PM
  #5265  
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You're right. I goofed on the part number. It's supposed to be M40131, not M40138.
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Old 10-28-18, 05:41 AM
  #5266  
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Do any of you know whether you can reuse pins To relink a K710SL chain?

i have accidentally split the chain too short ( maths cock up trying to do it in a rush and not double checking).

They are almost £30 per chain here in the UK so Iím keen to save it if I can.

KMC website Doesnít list any spares other than missing links.

im guessing the answer is no but thought I would ask the community anyway just incase! *fingers crossed*
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Old 10-28-18, 08:42 AM
  #5267  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Hey Taras, just FYI (and to other iO owners), it looks like the bearings are actually 61901, 24x12x6mm. The one's in this wheel are NMB r2412zz (though only one metal shield is fitted) which I cross referenced to the SKF number.

Also, for Mavic newbies (like me...) the axle is a slight interference fit, and needs to be lightly tapped out (screwdriver handle works). But be careful, the axle is aluminum and has EXTREMELY fine threads that look super easy to damage! So take care when removing/installing.
When you punched out the bearings, they should have the size series engraved on the shield, or the outer race.

Edit: Just saying, those iO bearings are a REALLY obscure size. Although not unobtainable, they definitely are a special order bearing. Mavic really makes it a hassle to order a $10 part just because it's an iO.



Little trick: When installing new bearings, face these markings outwards under any dustcaps. This way you don't have to remove the actual bearing to find out what your replacement is should you need one.

Last edited by taras0000; 10-28-18 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-28-18, 11:29 AM
  #5268  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Do any of you know whether you can reuse pins To relink a K710SL chain?

i have accidentally split the chain too short ( maths cock up trying to do it in a rush and not double checking).

They are almost £30 per chain here in the UK so Iím keen to save it if I can.

KMC website Doesnít list any spares other than missing links.

im guessing the answer is no but thought I would ask the community anyway just incase! *fingers crossed*

I've done it, and been doing it. It hasn't been a problem so far.

It's not a great idea to do it too often, but once or twice isn't really a problem. (Replacement pins can be purchased for $5-$6.)
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Old 10-28-18, 11:34 AM
  #5269  
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Just throwing this one out there after some more investigating, the Comete Bearings are part #M40129 and are a 61902 bearing (15mmID x 28mmOD x 7mm width).

https://www.pelotony.com/cs/18-mavic...40129-mnoz-uni

Last edited by taras0000; 10-28-18 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 10-28-18, 11:47 AM
  #5270  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I've done it, and been doing it. It hasn't been a problem so far.

It's not a great idea to do it too often, but once or twice isn't really a problem. (Replacement pins can be purchased for $5-$6.)
fantastic - what pins are you using? The only replacement ones I can find are the following, but they are for different chains to the K710 SL - I think the HL is the half link & the KK is that wierd Knight box chain for example.

Bullet Pin HL710/KK710<br>(1 set/polybag) for BMX, Fixie & Track | KMC Chain

the pins I have pushed out of the chain itself are deformed and without the bullet part I have no idea how you would get it back in.
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Old 10-28-18, 12:18 PM
  #5271  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Do any of you know whether you can reuse pins To relink a K710SL chain?

i have accidentally split the chain too short ( maths cock up trying to do it in a rush and not double checking).

They are almost £30 per chain here in the UK so Iím keen to save it if I can.

KMC website Doesnít list any spares other than missing links.

im guessing the answer is no but thought I would ask the community anyway just incase! *fingers crossed*
Another option would be to used a second Missing Link to attach the short section.
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Old 10-28-18, 02:00 PM
  #5272  
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Sorry. I misunderstood your question. I have reused the missing links, not the pins.
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Old 10-29-18, 05:47 PM
  #5273  
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Track Tires - where to buy?
US or EU internet shop options wanted...
I like the Vittorias, light but not slick options.
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Old 10-30-18, 02:27 PM
  #5274  
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Originally Posted by Clythio View Post
Track Tires - where to buy?
US or EU internet shop options wanted...
I like the Vittorias, light but not slick options.
Euro shops always have the best pricing in my experience. Evans Cycles was one of my go to shops but have stopped selling to Oz

By light but not slick do you mean not the indoor tyres like Vittoria pista speed? But rather something with more rubber and maybe even some puncture protection?
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Old 10-30-18, 05:09 PM
  #5275  
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I bought Vittoria Pista G+ clinchers for my training wheels and Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ tubulars for my race wheels from probikekit.com. I race outdoors on a concrete track.
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