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Pedestrians = more dangerous than drivers?

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Pedestrians = more dangerous than drivers?

Old 09-24-19, 11:08 AM
  #101  
sheddle
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Originally Posted by bedtime View Post
I've witnessed this many times before. One time an old man nearly clipped me. I caught up to him at a light and situated myself in front of his car in the middle of the lane. As I was standing and waiting for the light to change he slowly moved his car towards me, running into my bike, never once stopping. Had I not moved I'd likely have ended up with few broken bones.

I've also had a teenaged girl drive a van with 4 guys in their late teens, chasing me, doing u-turns, and generally driving like one would in a video game. Whenever she got close enough to me, she'd stop, allowing the guys to open the sliding door and chase after me with hockey sticks. You cannot imagine how terrifying it was—my chest had palpitations for the next two weeks due to my overexertion. Finally, I got away. I came back again and found them stopped at a gas station getting gas. I said to her, "I've got your licence, and the police will be notified." How queer it is that she then begs me not to call them; you'd have thought she'd wanted the police to be called by the way she was driving. So, I called them for her. I also told the police I was going to have her charged, just to put a little extra fear in her.
I think there's just something about operating a machine that mentally separates some people from the consequences of their actions. A lot of road cyclists will tell you that by far the worst drivers are parents driving to and from schools- otherwise calm suburban moms will turn into sociopathic nightmares when they might be two minutes late to take Coldyn to clarinet practice.
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Old 09-24-19, 11:19 AM
  #102  
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A friendly pedestrian out celebrating his birthday today.

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Old 09-24-19, 11:57 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Is that how the law works in Ontario? What was the outcome of the charges you made?
I'm not sure, but I never had any intention of charging her; I just said that so that she could feel a little bit of the fear that I felt when she was trying to kill me.
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Old 09-24-19, 11:59 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
A friendly pedestrian out celebrating his birthday today.

safety orange, and balloons for visibility. very nice.
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Old 09-24-19, 12:03 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
safety orange, and balloons for visibility. very nice.
And escorts. Today is Gritty's birthday.

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Old 09-24-19, 02:22 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by sheddle View Post
safety orange, and balloons for visibility. very nice.
I don't think that helmet is MIPS.
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Old 09-25-19, 01:47 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
the ones that were built by people?

or the ones that evolved from all of the scrap laying around? Scrap made by humans that is.
Sooner or later they will be designing and building themselves like we have babies...but you knew that.
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Old 09-25-19, 02:29 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Sooner or later they will be designing and building themselves like we have babies...but you knew that.
Oh yeah, I think I watched that documentary.
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Old 09-25-19, 10:02 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
A friendly pedestrian out celebrating his birthday today.

More info on the friendly pedestrian of Philadelphia can be found at: https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/10...gritty/572350/

Note: the cited article includes pictures and words that might offend people with a preference for unholy creatures with an orange tint.
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Old 09-26-19, 05:02 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Lightning Pilot View Post
Those machines are just so much potential scrap metal without the people operating them. The people are the dangerous element. No weapon ever kills without human interaction, no tool causes death or injury without human interaction. It is, indeed, simple. A simple truth that most are uncomfortable with. We, and only we, are responsible (oh that word!) for whatever happens with a tool of any kind that is under our control. Anything else is fiction.
Though, it is an interesting observation to note that a typical cyclist death news story (in NYC we've had quite a few) headlines will be along the lines of "Cyclist killed by truck" -- and not "Cyclist killed by John Doe who was driving a truck". Not sure if it's a media bias that indeed more often than not, takes the human being out of the offending act.
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Old 09-26-19, 05:38 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Though, it is an interesting observation to note that a typical cyclist death news story (in NYC we've had quite a few) headlines will be along the lines of "Cyclist killed by truck" -- and not "Cyclist killed by John Doe who was driving a truck". Not sure if it's a media bias that indeed more often than not, takes the human being out of the offending act.
Right. It's ridiculous to take either the operator or the implement out of the equation, but I think isolation from the general environment is one of the factors that makes drivers more dangerous than pedestrians or cyclists. It's easier to forget the humanity of the traffic around you when you're sitting in a giant metal cocoon.

BTW, I suspect it will be pretty hard to find many "pedestrian kills cyclist" stories that don't involve the use of a weapon.
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Old 09-26-19, 06:08 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

BTW, I suspect it will be pretty hard to find many "pedestrian kills cyclist" stories that don't involve the use of a weapon.
True, though on the flip side, it's also hard to find many stories where 'iphone using pedestrian kills self by walking into traffic'.
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Old 09-26-19, 06:18 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
True, though on the flip side, it's also hard to find many stories where 'iphone using pedestrian kills self by walking into traffic'.
That's kind of the point, though. Pedestrians misbehaving is a bigger threat to themselves than to others, while the opposite is true for drivers. I'm going back to refuting the premise of the OP. The real goal post in this thread has been from "pedestrians are dangerous" to " pedestrians are less predictable. " I happen to think even that assertion isn't true because of the much greater speeds of motor vehicles.
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Old 09-26-19, 12:06 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Though, it is an interesting observation to note that a typical cyclist death news story (in NYC we've had quite a few) headlines will be along the lines of "Cyclist killed by truck" -- and not "Cyclist killed by John Doe who was driving a truck". Not sure if it's a media bias that indeed more often than not, takes the human being out of the offending act.
You understand the implications of the point I made, but I think taking the human responsibility out of it is either a society-wide characteristic (e.g., your example, "gun" violence, etc.) or perhaps inherent in human nature. How does the media in other societies treat such events?
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Old 09-26-19, 03:03 PM
  #115  
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So far, society doesn't really seem to agree that pedestrians have priority on streets - if drivers were required by law to be prepared for random pedestrians in the street and face criminal negligence charges otherwise, then almost all drivers would drive more slowly and more cautiously, but this is not the case.
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Old 09-30-19, 09:01 AM
  #116  
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Please no gun / NRA discussions. Gun discussions are very emotional and political and only allowed in P&R. If gun discussion continues, this thread will be moved to P&R. Thank you in advance for your compliance.
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Old 09-30-19, 04:30 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by bipedalconsumer View Post
So far, society doesn't really seem to agree that pedestrians have priority on streets - if drivers were required by law to be prepared for random pedestrians in the street and face criminal negligence charges otherwise, then almost all drivers would drive more slowly and more cautiously, but this is not the case.
Society has been brainwashed by the motoring lobby's propaganda which started in the 20's that roads are for cars and that pedestrians walking on roads were of low intelligence.
Prior to this the roads belonged to the people for whatever transport choice they wished to use.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797

And in my country drivers ARE required by law to be prepared for random pedestrians in the street and face criminal negligence charges otherwise.
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Old 09-30-19, 05:00 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Though, it is an interesting observation to note that a typical cyclist death news story (in NYC we've had quite a few) headlines will be along the lines of "Cyclist killed by truck" -- and not "Cyclist killed by John Doe who was driving a truck". Not sure if it's a media bias that indeed more often than not, takes the human being out of the offending act.
Headlines need to be short, while conveying the most important information. "Cyclist Killed by Truck", "Cyclist Killed by Drunk Driver", or "Cyclist Killed by Runaway Truck" convey important information. "Cyclist Killed by a Person Driving a Truck" includes unnecessary information, because it can be safely assumed the truck was driven by someone when the cyclist was killed.
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Old 09-30-19, 05:02 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Media bias?? Headlines need to be short, while conveying the most important information. "Cyclist Killed by Truck", "Cyclist Killed by Drunk Driver", or "Cyclist Killed by Runaway Truck" convey important information. "Cyclist Killed by a Person Driving a Truck" includes unnecessary information, because it can be safely assumed the truck was driven by someone when the cyclist was killed.
Cyclist killed by truck driver, cyclist killed by motorist.

Not hard.
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Old 09-30-19, 05:03 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Headlines need to be short, while conveying the most important information. "Cyclist Killed by Truck", "Cyclist Killed by Drunk Driver", or "Cyclist Killed by Runaway Truck" convey important information. "Cyclist Killed by a Person Driving a Truck" includes unnecessary information, because it can be safely assumed the truck was driven by someone when the cyclist was killed.
Truck cannot kill cyclist by itself usually.
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Old 09-30-19, 05:08 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
Truck cannot kill cyclist by itself usually.
That's right. That's why "Cyclist Killed by Truck" is sufficient. The primary goal of headlines is to be short and to the point.

Last edited by tomato coupe; 09-30-19 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 09-30-19, 06:52 PM
  #122  
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How about "Dentist killed by Soccer Mom"? "Landscaper runs over cycling schoolteacher" ? Lots of ways both parties in a story can be represented by a person and not imbalanced where only one is a type of person, the other is a type of vehicle.
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Old 09-30-19, 06:59 PM
  #123  
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"Cyclist killed by drunk driver" and "cyclist killed by runaway truck" imply vastly different kinds of things - one puts criminal guilt squarely on a driver who may not even have been convicted, while the other actively seeks to absolve a driver (the truck just ran away...) who may yet be charged with criminal negligence or manslaughter
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Old 09-30-19, 07:10 PM
  #124  
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Person on bicycle killed by person not in control of car.
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Old 09-30-19, 07:26 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
How about "Dentist killed by Soccer Mom"? "Landscaper runs over cycling schoolteacher" ? Lots of ways both parties in a story can be represented by a person and not imbalanced where only one is a type of person, the other is a type of vehicle.

The occupation of the perpetrator or the victim is not usually considered noteworthy enough to be headline-worthy. An exception might be something like "Cyclist Killed by Senator" or "Judge Killed on Bicycle". But, those are all much different from a headline of the type, "Cyclist Killed by a Person Driving a Truck", which contains information that is unnecessary.


Originally Posted by bipedalconsumer View Post
"Cyclist killed by drunk driver" and "cyclist killed by runaway truck" imply vastly different kinds of things - one puts criminal guilt squarely on a driver who may not even have been convicted, while the other actively seeks to absolve a driver (the truck just ran away...) who may yet be charged with criminal negligence or manslaughter

Yes, those hypothetical headlines are different, as they contain additional information that likely would be considered important and headline-worthy.


My only point is that you don't see headlines like "Cyclist Killed by a Person Driving a Truck" because headlines are meant to short and to-the-point, and they only contain the most important information. It has nothing to do with media bias, as suggested earlier.
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