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So my frame is cracked...

Old 10-17-06, 02:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser

<clipety clip>
The repainting thing is just Trek making stuff up, but frame warranties seem to be a thing of the past generally, as noted by earlier posters.
The issue is generally not the painting but the prep. Chemical paint removal, careless media blasting, scraping, etc. can certainly weaken thin-wall tubing, whether it is steel, aluminum, or whatever. If done correctly it shouldn't be a problem but I can understand, if not entirely agree with, Trek's policy there.
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Old 10-17-06, 03:15 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
You know, I was kind of thinking the same thing months ago when I was looking at new bikes. A cyclocross bike seemed like a nice compromise for my needs. I do want something with that can accomodate thicker tires though, which is why I was kind of drawn to the Bad Boy as another type of compromise. How many of my mountain components could I use on a cyclocross frame? I'm still open to any suggestions on new bikes/frames.
You could use LOTS of your mountain components on a touring/cross frame!! Derailers will work (might need to shim the front derailer), cranks will work, brake and shifter levers will work if you keep the flat bar, etc. If you want one of the smaller sizes of Surly Cross-check or some other cross frames, they take 26" wheels... though most larger frames take 700C wheels. The Surly frames take 27.2mm seatposts, and a 1-1/8" stem will move over to a new frame with no problems.

If you go for drop bars (I recommend it!) you'll need new brake and shift levers of course, but it'll be practically like getting a whole new bike, it'll change the feel so much

Also, I've heard good things on hear about the Nashbar Touring Frameset (aluminum touring frame and fork, lots of braze-ons, Surly LHT clone) which is about $200. Nashbar also has a cross frame for about $150 which is more agressive geometry than the Touring frame, with fewer brazeons, and doesn't include a fork... basically it's a knockoff of the Surly Cross Check.
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Old 10-17-06, 03:37 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
Hmm. I actually have a pile of cracked steel frames in my basement and ride all aluminum these days.
Yep. I've had at least a dozen steel frames of various quality fail in fatigue, as well as one Ti frame. Haven't had an aluminum frame fail so far. I remember when aluminum frames first started getting popular, everyone talked about how they would all crack to pieces. Generally speaking, it just hasn't turned out that way-aluminium frames are very reliable, all things considered.

The design and construction quality of the frame is far more important than the material it is made out of. Just because steel has an infinate fatigue limit below some stress threshold doesn't mean that every steel structure is designed to take advantage of that property. Throw welds and stress risers into the mix, and things get way more complicated.
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Old 10-17-06, 03:39 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by moxfyre
basically it's a knockoff of the Surly Cross Check.
I was hearing lots of nice things about the cross check and looking at it seriously until I realized it doesn't accept disc brakes.

I loves me some disc brakes. The nashbar frame seems to take them though....
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Old 10-17-06, 03:48 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
I was hearing lots of nice things about the cross check and looking at it seriously until I realized it doesn't accept disc brakes.

I loves me some disc brakes. The nashbar frame seems to take them though....
Yeah, the Nashbar Cross frame definitely takes discs And they have a rigid steel cross/touring fork with disc mounts for only $50 last time I checked. Pretty cool
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Old 10-17-06, 03:57 PM
  #31  
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Another potential problem for switching over to a cross frame: my brooks saddle. I just got it a few months ago. It's a B17. Would that be too big if I got a cyclocross frame?
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Old 10-17-06, 04:18 PM
  #32  
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No such thing as a saddle being to big for a frame
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Old 10-17-06, 04:34 PM
  #33  
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I got a B17 on a cross frame. Click the IRO in my sig to see if it's too big.
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Old 10-17-06, 04:34 PM
  #34  
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A cyclocross bike is a perfect use for a B-17.
Actually nearly any bike is a good use for a B-17. The possible exceptions are for agressive off-road riding (its difficult to get behind the wide B17) and for an ultra light roadie (B17s are not light saddles).
If you don't mind going for new wheels then many other components should be transferable.
Most MTBs have enough clearance than they could fit a narrow 700c tire. The only requirement is that you have to have a 700c wheelset with disc brakes. This may require a special built wheel as road and cyclocross wheelsets do not usually have disc compatible hubs.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:22 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
Pretty fast response from Trek.

Pretty much what I expected.

Re using my parts is exactly what I'd like to do. I love my current shifters, derailer, breaks, grips, pedals, etc.. However I believe that with buying a new frame there is a good chance some of my current parts wont fit like the seatpost, seatpost clamp, bottom bracket, and fork. I'm prepared to buy new components for all of these things though in the event of getting a new frame. And if I do end up buying a totally new bike, I'll transfer as many of my old components over as possible.

Possible stupid question about the Furio (Bad Boy) frame in relation to other frames. I noticed the Furio frame can accomodate mountain and road wheels. Can all MTB frames do this? I was thinking of getting a set of road wheels for the spring and summer, and switching over to my mountain wheels for the winter...
I was told when I purchased my Fisher bike that if I needed to repaint it to send it back to the factory, not to have it done elsewhere or my warranty was void. Purchase was just the frame though, and the shop built it up, so not sure how the other aspects of the warranty apply.

You could always just buy one of these.
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Old 10-17-06, 05:52 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
...Any suggestions on what I should get, and what would be the most cost effective way of going about it?...
Catch an end-of-the-year sale on a Specialized Rockhopper - add a rear rack and a Nashbar "comfort stem." Ideal urban commuter - runs over anything & just doesn't care!
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Old 10-17-06, 06:42 PM
  #37  
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You know what? $%*& Trek. I'm not even going to inquire about a discount on a new frame. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to just get a new frame. I'm still no expert, but my bike knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds since I got that 4500 two years ago. A road bike or cyclocross bike would be much more in line for me and the way I ride. I'll opt for the cross bike, since the option for beefier tires in the winter seems good.

In all liklihood I'll go with the Nashbar frame with their steel fork. With a new set of wheels (can't use mountain, right?), other misc parts I'll need new, and labor from my LBS I can probably do this for less than $700, which is much cheaper than what I'd be paying for a whole new bike or an overpriced frame.
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Old 10-17-06, 07:27 PM
  #38  
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I'd venture to say you can put most of it together yourself and just use the LBS for any adjustments you can't figure out (I have the worst time w/ derailleurs). That'd save you a couple bucks. Hit up the LBS for some other parts. If you can talk directly to the mechanic, he might have some NOS stuff he can sell you on the sly.
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Old 10-17-06, 10:20 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by CBBaron
A cyclocross bike is a perfect use for a B-17.
Actually nearly any bike is a good use for a B-17. The possible exceptions are for agressive off-road riding (its difficult to get behind the wide B17) and for an ultra light roadie (B17s are not light saddles).
If you don't mind going for new wheels then many other components should be transferable.
Most MTBs have enough clearance than they could fit a narrow 700c tire. The only requirement is that you have to have a 700c wheelset with disc brakes. This may require a special built wheel as road and cyclocross wheelsets do not usually have disc compatible hubs.
Craig
The saddle compatibility is more to do with riding position. An agressive riding position and wide saddles do not mix. Having said that, cross bikes tend towards classic geometry so as long as you don't end up with a big drop to the bars you will be sweet.

700c on a mountain is a great idea. My frame can take 26x2.5" tyres and as a result, I can fit 700x42 in there.

Cross frames with disc mounts will all be able to take 135m rear mtb hub spacing. If you such a frame, build it with the flat bars and componentry off the trek (even the 26" wheels) and replace the parts over time.
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Old 10-18-06, 06:59 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by radical_edward
Cross frames with disc mounts will all be able to take 135m rear mtb hub spacing. If you such a frame, build it with the flat bars and componentry off the trek (even the 26" wheels) and replace the parts over time.
Sweet. I didn't think the Cross frame would take the 26 inch wheels. If it will then that'll save me a bunch for now, and I can wait to get the new set of wheels until after the winter.

Question about drivetrain compatibility. Can I mix a mountain bike rear derailer (my SRAM X7) and shifters with a smaller road casette?
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Old 10-18-06, 07:42 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
Sweet. I didn't think the Cross frame would take the 26 inch wheels. If it will then that'll save me a bunch for now, and I can wait to get the new set of wheels until after the winter.

Question about drivetrain compatibility. Can I mix a mountain bike rear derailer (my SRAM X7) and shifters with a smaller road casette?
You're probably better off asking in the Mechanics forum, but my guess is that if the spacing on the cassette is the same, you should be able to use it. That's just my guess.

As for the 26" wheels on the cross frame, watch out for brake reach. My cross frame accomodates V-brakes, but if I put a 26" wheel on it, I can't get the pads down far enough to reach the rim.
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Old 10-18-06, 08:08 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
Question about drivetrain compatibility. Can I mix a mountain bike rear derailer (my SRAM X7) and shifters with a smaller road casette?
Yes. The spacing of Shimano and SRAM cassettes is the same for a given number of cogs, regardless of whether it's road or mountain. (E.g. all Shimano/SRAM 8-speed cassettes have same spacing, all 9-speed cassettes have same spacing, etc.)
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Old 10-18-06, 09:00 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by moxfyre
Yes. The spacing of Shimano and SRAM cassettes is the same for a given number of cogs, regardless of whether it's road or mountain. (E.g. all Shimano/SRAM 8-speed cassettes have same spacing, all 9-speed cassettes have same spacing, etc.)
However Campy is an exception. A Campy cassette will NOT have the same spacing as shimano etc.
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Old 10-18-06, 09:11 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
After serving me well for two and a half years, I discovered a crack on the frame of my Trek 4500 while it was on the stand in the shop for another repair. Time to get a new frame

Earlier this year I was bitten by the bug and was tempted to buy a new bike. From my looking around I was gravitating to the Cannondale Bad Boy as it seemed a good all around bike, but common sense took over again and I realized I didn't need a new bike and decided to just save my money.

To give you an idea of the kind of riding I do, I live in NYC and commute year round. In addition I use my bike for the majority of my traveling - beats the train and the bus. I got the 4500 originally because I'm comfortable with mountain bikes from my childhood. I thought I might get around to heading out to some mountain trails after I got the bike, but that never happened. All the recreational riding I've done since I've had the bike have been the organized rides in the city (Five Borough Tour, etc.) Although I switched to 1.5 slicks long ago, I could probably go without a suspencion fork (one of the things I liked about the Bad Boy is the lockout ability, although I'd probably be just as good with a rigid fork).

Any suggestions on what I should get, and what would be the most cost effective way of going about it? With the Bad Boy for instance, I could afford the Disc or Ultra versions, but some of the most important parts would be redundant for me (I already have SRAM X-7 shifters/rear derailer, and Avid BB7 disc brakes). I'm doubtful I would make much by selling the extras on eBay. The other option is of course to just buy the frame by itself (Cannondale Furio) but it's my understanding that it would be pretty expensive (about $600) in comparison to just buying a complete bike...

I'm open to suggestions other than the Bad Boy. Any and all help appreciated.

Thanks
I noticed a small chip near one of the water bottle cage eyelets on the seat tube of my C'dale. While riding home one day, I noticed a crackling noise while pedaling. I got off the bike wiggled the cage and it made the same noise. When I got home, I took the cage off to clean around the eyelets and noticed the chip and that the eyelet (or whatever you call it) was a bit loose as well.

The bike was bought from a friend, so I'm not the original owner. Thus, making a trade in void.

So, I'm in the same boat as you, my friend. Unfortunately, I cannot afford anything yet - or anytime soon.

Good luck with your situation. I hope you get what you want out of this.
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Old 10-18-06, 09:12 AM
  #45  
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If your 26" wheels are disc compatible, then buy some disc brakes and go w/ them if you wish. If they are not, then you probably can't use them on the cross frame - you want disc brakes anyway, right, so get some 700c disc wheels and brakes - it'll prolly run you around $300, but you'll be able to recoup some from your old crap.
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Old 10-18-06, 10:43 AM
  #46  
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I already have some Avid BB7 disc brakes on my current bike and I'm very happy with them.

Thanks for all your help so far guys. You've been very informative. I'll probably have the new setup sooner rather than later. My new credit card statement begins in two days so I might start buying things by the end of the week. And no, I wont carry a balance. I never do.
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Old 10-18-06, 10:46 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by some_guy282
I already have some Avid BB7 disc brakes on my current bike and I'm very happy with them.

Thanks for all your help so far guys. You've been very informative. I'll probably have the new setup sooner rather than later. My new credit card statement begins in two days so I might start buying things by the end of the week. And no, I wont carry a balance. I never do.
Post pics when you're done. I wanna see this thing.

BTW, I know your bike's out of commission, but are you doing the Tour da Bronx this weekend, maybe on some borrowed wheels or a duct taped Trek?
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Old 10-18-06, 10:59 AM
  #48  
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I'm going to the Tour de Bronx with the busted bike. The crack is small still and the owner of my LBS said I have some time with it before it's unsafe to ride. What starting point are you going to use?

Now I'm wondering if I should spring for the carbon fiber cyclocross fork on nashbar too. I've always just been a little leery of the durability of carbon, and I'm already walking away from one cracked frame...
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Old 10-18-06, 10:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by substructure
I noticed a small chip near one of the water bottle cage eyelets on the seat tube of my C'dale. While riding home one day, I noticed a crackling noise while pedaling. I got off the bike wiggled the cage and it made the same noise. When I got home, I took the cage off to clean around the eyelets and noticed the chip and that the eyelet (or whatever you call it) was a bit loose as well.

The bike was bought from a friend, so I'm not the original owner. Thus, making a trade in void.

So, I'm in the same boat as you, my friend. Unfortunately, I cannot afford anything yet - or anytime soon.

Good luck with your situation. I hope you get what you want out of this.
In high-end steel frames, the water bottle bosses are usually brazed in place, which makes them virtually indestructable, and they actually provide support to the surrounding tube.

In aluminum frames and cheaper steel frames, the bottle bosses are often simply holes into which a threaded rivet ("RivNut") has been inserted. The rivets can work themselves loose. A loose rivet isn't a structural problem, since the rivets don't strengthen the frame at all. You can probably immobilize the rivets with an appropriate adhesive.

You might want to check out this thread about riveted bottle bosses, https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=162158
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Old 10-18-06, 11:02 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by moxfyre
In high-end steel frames, the water bottle bosses are usually brazed in place, which makes them virtually indestructable, and they actually provide support to the surrounding tube.

In aluminum frames and cheaper steel frames, the bottle bosses are often simply holes into which a threaded rivet ("RivNut") has been inserted. The rivets can work themselves loose. A loose rivet isn't a structural problem, since the rivets don't strengthen the frame at all. You can probably immobilize the rivets with an appropriate adhesive.

You might want to check out this thread about riveted bottle bosses, https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=162158
Thanks
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