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A crude awakening... seen the movie?

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A crude awakening... seen the movie?

Old 04-27-07, 04:39 PM
  #51  
TimJ
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Originally Posted by mwrobe1
Wow.

+1

I hear ya. I mean really. I recycle what I can. I ride a bike to work more often than not. I plan my trips in my car to reduce traffic and decrease gas consumption. I have one vehicle that gets 30mpg a minivan that I can squeeze 22mpg out of. I'll be healthier, a little richer, and be a little less wasteful as a result of it. If others follow my lead...great...if they don't...the world won't come to an end. (sorry to those who disagree on this point)

These are all my choices...made by ME...by my own reasoning...WITHOUT any guilt trips or propaganda from the media, hollywood, politicians or any other extremist kook group passing out pamplets.
Here's another screed for ya'. How do you know the world won't come to an end? What are you basing your decisions on? They're made by you... so? You're saying +1 to a guy who's saying

There's a solution somewhere between both extremes.
How do you guys know what's extreme and what isn't? Is the baseline for your decisions based on knowledge of whatever issue is at hand or is based on an psychological knee-jerk reaction to run to the middle?

Do you guys think you're above all of that noise and screed because you stay outside of it or stick to the middle? You know what's going on because you dismiss more than other people? I'm sorry to give you a hard time, and I'm not arguing with you whether the world is "ending" or not, but how exactly does ignoring anything you see as partisan make your decisions wiser? How can you tell if something truly is "extreme" if you think whatever the extremes are, they're necessarily in the wrong? If tomorrow a huge political and cultural movement starts telling you the earth is flat and Fox News runs headlines like "Round-Earthers: Terrorists?" are you going to get pissed off and say the world is a football?

See I was kind of screeding about the same thing in my other screed-tastic screed, the main point being the idea that somewhere in the middle lies the truth is a fool's wisdom. People who think that way, who automatically run away from all those extremist ideas, are the easiest to manipulate. All you got to do is start spending money and pretty soon half the country is saying "there's evidence that gravity is real and there's evidence that angels hold us down, I'm not gonna get suckered by all those politicians or celebrities who want me to take a side."
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Old 04-27-07, 05:50 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by TimJ
How do you guys know what's extreme and what isn't?
Extreme. Adj.

"of the greatest possible degree or extent or intensity"

Since this is all relative:

There is one extreme. We're ****ed. We're all going to die if we don't plant lots of trees, bury all our motorized vehicles, and quit using paper. Hug a tree. Hug a koala. Eat rabbit food. Peace, man!

There's the other extreme: We won't run out of oil. Consume, consume, consume! You can afford $8 per gallon, so don't sweat the details! Eat all you want, we'll make more. Would you like to biggie size that? How about TWO Suburbans and an H2? Don't believe any of the hype. We're just people and there's no way we can hurt the planet.

Those are extremes. It's pretty easy to see them. If you can't, your a ****tard. Yes, there are actually people on both ends of the spectrum, and there are people who are CLOSE to the extremes as well.

There are heavy-handed zealots and bigots on both sides of the issue. And it's an issue that does not require the kind of force, coercion or intolerance that these people seem to exhibit.

By way of quoting my "there's a solution between both extremes" and arguing the point, you're proving mine. How poetic of you to not quote the sentence following the one you quoted:

"Bigots simply refuse to acknowledge it, writing all other opinions off as peanut gallery nonsense."

Bigot.

And for your information, the solution isn't dead center between them. Conservation has to happen somewhere, and more is better.
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Old 04-27-07, 07:34 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by ax0n
Extreme. Adj.

There is one extreme. We're ****ed. We're all going to die if we don't plant lots of trees, bury all our motorized vehicles, and quit using paper. Hug a tree. Hug a koala. Eat rabbit food. Peace, man!
Actually there are many that say that we are already screwed no matter what we do, and that a human population dieoff is inevitable. I would say that that is the extreme. Planting trees and eating rabbit food is pretty tame by comparison.
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Old 04-27-07, 08:33 PM
  #54  
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Mmmm... rabbit food!

I can't find this movie anywhere. I can only find the book on Amazon. No video stores around here have it.
What a bummer, I am really wanting to watch this!! Argh...
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Old 04-27-07, 08:34 PM
  #55  
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Netflix has it.
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Old 04-27-07, 08:45 PM
  #56  
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what it says.

China does not give a hoot about pollution.Their factories have little in the way of pollution controls.We in the states are much more concerned about pollution than the Chinese government.
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Old 04-27-07, 09:05 PM
  #57  
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Of course! Netflix has everything. But I haven't taken the plunge yet...

China's pollution scares me. It can drift over the tiny Pacific and right over California. It's in our backyard now. [And from Mexico too.] And it's only going to get exponentially worse. Asthma rates are already very high in CA, I can only imagine what will happen. Also since so much of our produce is grown in California, imagine what is getting into the soil from the heavy chemicals in the pollution clouds...
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Old 04-27-07, 09:21 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by ericy
Actually there are many that say that we are already screwed no matter what we do, and that a human population dieoff is inevitable. I would say that that is the extreme.
No, THAT is apathy. It's the people who still have a glimmer of hope that believe everyone needs to do crap their way that are the really extreme ones.

If I knew my days were numbered, I wouldn't be on my way to a boring and conservative lifestyle to try to prolong the inevitable. Would you?
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Old 04-28-07, 05:23 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by thimblescratch
Mmmm... rabbit food!

I can't find this movie anywhere. I can only find the book on Amazon. No video stores around here have it.
What a bummer, I am really wanting to watch this!! Argh...
You can order it from here:

https://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/...udeImpact.html

Matt (who owns this site) appeared in the movie.
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Old 04-28-07, 05:40 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by ax0n
No, THAT is apathy. It's the people who still have a glimmer of hope that believe everyone needs to do crap their way that are the really extreme ones.

If I knew my days were numbered, I wouldn't be on my way to a boring and conservative lifestyle to try to prolong the inevitable. Would you?
As best I can tell, the folks who believe this haven't given up, but would rather that the public not be informed. The thinking is that there simply isn't enough time and there are too many people on the planet. The analogy that they frequently use is that of the Titanic - thus the adherents are in search of lifeboats, and have given up trying to save the ship. The thinking is that if the public were informed, there wouldn't be enough room in the lifeboats.

A website with information that is representative of this point of view is https://www.dieoff.com/. I can't say that I agree with all of what they say there, but I guess that it is representative of that point of view. I should add though that there are a number of academics who believe that human population has already overshot the ability of the earth to support it in a sustainable manner. Oil has temporarily increased the carrying capacity which allowed us to overshoot, and once it is gone....
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Old 04-28-07, 06:54 AM
  #61  
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I have my own opinions about this subject....But I aint touchin this thread!!
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Old 05-01-07, 01:26 PM
  #62  
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From "On Bulls**t" by Harry G. Frankfurt

Bull**** is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bull**** is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently impelled — whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others — to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to have opinions about everything, or at least everything that pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs. The lack of any significant connection between a person’s opinions and his apprehension of reality will be even more severe, needless to say, for someone who believes it his responsibility, as a conscientious moral agent, to evaluate events and conditions in all parts of the world.

The contemporary proliferation of bull**** also has deeper sources, in various forms of skepticism which deny that we can have any reliable access to an objective reality and which therefore reject the possibility of knowing how things truly are. These “anti-realist” doctrines undermine confidence in the value of disinterested efforts to determine what is true and what is false, and even in the intelligibility of the notion of objective inquiry. One response to this loss of confidence has been a retreat from the discipline required by dedication to the ideal of correctness to a quite different sort of discipline, which is imposed by pursuit of an alternative ideal of sincerity. Rather than seeking primarily to arrive at accurate representations of a common world, the individual turns toward trying to provide honest representations of himself. Convinced that reality has no inherent nature, which he might hope to identify as the truth about things, he devotes himself to being true to his own nature. It is as though he decides that since it makes no sense to try to be true to the facts, he must therefore try instead to be true to himself.

But it is preposterous to imagine that we ourselves are determinate, and hence susceptible both to correct and to incorrect descriptions, while supposing that the ascription of determinacy to anything else has been exposed as a mistake. As conscious beings, we exist only in response to other things, and we cannot know ourselves at all without knowing them. Moreover, there is nothing in theory, and certainly nothing in experience, to support the extraordinary judgment that it is the truth about himself that is the easiest for a person to know. Facts about ourselves are not peculiarly solid and resistant to skeptical dissolution. Our natures are, indeed, elusively insubstantial — notoriously less stable and less inherent than the natures of other things. And insofar as this is the case, sincerity itself is bull****.
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