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Electric scooters on MUP

Old 09-26-19, 01:29 AM
  #1  
SlinkyWizard
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Electric scooters on MUP

After looking up the definition of a MUP and seeing a few videos, in Korea, we have 100's of kilometres of MUP's,

they are becoming more popular with cyclists, new and old ,many electric wheelchairs, and now the Korean government will make it legal for electric scooters to ride on the MUP.

This is ridiculous !!!

Large groups of very fast cyclists , dangerously overtaking slower riders a very common sight, and it's no wonder why you occasionally see ambulances on the MUP,

and now, an even faster mode of transportation will be allowed to ride on the MUP's. Electric scooter riders already ride on the MUP, despite banners saying they are not allowed, and these things fly, a lot of riders wearing motorcycle helmets

I would hate to think what would happen if one were to collide with an electric scooter going at top speed, and once made legal, I assume many more people will opt for this form of transportation, primarily to avoid traffic going to and from work.

E bikes are capped at 25km/h, by law, I hope the same law will apply to electric scooters as well.
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Old 09-26-19, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SlinkyWizard View Post
After looking up the definition of a MUP and seeing a few videos, in Korea, we have 100's of kilometres of MUP's,

they are becoming more popular with cyclists, new and old ,many electric wheelchairs, and now the Korean government will make it legal for electric scooters to ride on the MUP.

This is ridiculous !!!

Large groups of very fast cyclists , dangerously overtaking slower riders a very common sight, and it's no wonder why you occasionally see ambulances on the MUP,

and now, an even faster mode of transportation will be allowed to ride on the MUP's. Electric scooter riders already ride on the MUP, despite banners saying they are not allowed, and these things fly, a lot of riders wearing motorcycle helmets

I would hate to think what would happen if one were to collide with an electric scooter going at top speed, and once made legal, I assume many more people will opt for this form of transportation, primarily to avoid traffic going to and from work.

E bikes are capped at 25km/h, by law, I hope the same law will apply to electric scooters as well.
Don't ever visit Vietnam or Cambodia then.
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Old 09-26-19, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SlinkyWizard View Post
After looking up the definition of a MUP and seeing a few videos, in Korea, we have 100's of kilometres of MUP's,

they are becoming more popular with cyclists, new and old ,many electric wheelchairs, and now the Korean government will make it legal for electric scooters to ride on the MUP.

This is ridiculous !!!

Large groups of very fast cyclists , dangerously overtaking slower riders a very common sight, and it's no wonder why you occasionally see ambulances on the MUP,

and now, an even faster mode of transportation will be allowed to ride on the MUP's. Electric scooter riders already ride on the MUP, despite banners saying they are not allowed, and these things fly, a lot of riders wearing motorcycle helmets

I would hate to think what would happen if one were to collide with an electric scooter going at top speed, and once made legal, I assume many more people will opt for this form of transportation, primarily to avoid traffic going to and from work.

E bikes are capped at 25km/h, by law, I hope the same law will apply to electric scooters as well.
I've never been in Korea, but from what I've read and heard about traffic there, I suspect the crowding on a Korean MUP is many times greater than on even the most crowded US MUP. I've never seen an ambulance on an American MUP, and injuries, from all sources I'm aware of are rare.

I've also never seen anyone riding a escooter faster than 25 km/hr (about 15 mph). Is that really common in Korea?

I'm not for allowing escooters on US MUPs because I've seen them too poorly controlled at 15 mph to weave safely through pedestrian and cycling traffic in the narrow confines of a path. I can imagine that this would be horrible at higher speeds in a bigger crowd.
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Old 09-26-19, 06:04 AM
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They are prohibited on MUPs here by local ordinance; however I still see them. I have yet to see a scooter rider behaving badly, though I know there will be a few. Can't be any worse than the jerk cyclists who ride gonzo through crowds of pedestrians.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:03 AM
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Awesome. It's been at least 24 hours since we had another MUP complaint thread.
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Old 09-26-19, 08:26 AM
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Old 09-26-19, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Awesome. It's been at least 24 hours since we had another MUP complaint thread.
lol & those darn cats

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Old 09-26-19, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Awesome. It's been at least 24 hours since we had another MUP complaint thread.
LOL. I wish everyone would stop liking what I don't like and stop riding what I don't ride...

J/k, obviously sarcasm towards MUP acceptable use complainers.
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Old 09-26-19, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

I've also never seen anyone riding a escooter faster than 25 km/hr (about 15 mph). Is that really common in Korea?
Really? I don't think I've ever seen one ridden so slowly.
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Old 09-26-19, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
They are prohibited on MUPs here by local ordinance; however I still see them. I have yet to see a scooter rider behaving badly, though I know there will be a few. Can't be any worse than the jerk cyclists who ride gonzo through crowds of pedestrians.
Least they're electric. On Monday there were not 1, or 2, but 3 2-stroke engine powered mopeds flying down the "NO MOTOR VEHICLES" MUP leaving oil ridden blue smoke in their wake. No wind meant that crap wasn't dissipating at all. Who loves breathing that crap when out for a walk or exercising?

All three teens were grinning and giddy ear to ear at being complete jagoffs.
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Old 09-26-19, 09:12 AM
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We are going thru this nonsense in in Lincoln Ne. The city Council is making a big deal out of it. IMO they are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are talking a dinky little scooter with a 1 horse power motor, they are little more than a kids toy. The council wants to control businesses that rent them, and only want them to rent to people 18 or over. Yet 16 year olds can drive 600 horse power cars on the street. Does that make sense?

I am a heavy user of the 130 miles of MUPs we have here in Lincoln. I share the MUP with walkers, runners, people with dogs, people with baby carriages, roller skaters, regular scooters, skate boards, bikes, trikes, electric bikes, electric trikes, people with wheel chairs, and electric wheel chairs.. I have no problem with electric scooters. And BTW I am 81 years old.

Last edited by rydabent; 09-26-19 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 09-26-19, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
We are going thru this nonsense in in Lincoln Ne. The city Council is making a big deal out of it. IMO they are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We are talking a dinky little scooter with a 1 horse power motor, they are little more than a kids toy. The council wants to control businesses that rent them, and only want them to rent to people 18 or over. Yet 16 year olds can drive 600 horse power cars on the street. Does that make sense?

I am a heavy user of the 130 miles of MUPs we have here in Lincoln. I share the MUP with walkers, runners, people with dogs, people with baby carriages, roller skaters, skate boards, bikes, trikes, electric bikes, electric trikes, people with wheel chairs, and electric wheel chairs.. I have no problem with electric scooters. And BTW I am 81 years old.
Dumb kids with overpowered cars are at least kept to streets or parking lots. Seeing the dumb crap kids pull on gadgets without paying attention...I'd like to see some restraint imposed, since expecting people to restrain themselves to common-sense is a complete non-starter. For reference BTW, 1HP AKA 750W used to be the delineation for a moped, AKA motor-vehicle, legally. Now with e-bikes they're confusing the black/white line with "class" and tiers.

OT: Being the 'bent sort--do you know who those two 'bents are that have lawnmower or weedwhacker engines on them in LNK? I see them on the MUP often on the South side...granted they tend to exercise manners about using the things.
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Old 09-26-19, 10:12 AM
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Sorry, it seems to me that this is a ------------YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN--------thread.
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Old 09-26-19, 10:17 AM
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Yes I too have seen some clapped together bikes with gas motors on the bike path. Now them I do not want to see there. They have far more HP than the 750 watt bikes and and electric scooters.
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Old 09-26-19, 10:21 AM
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Old 09-26-19, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've never been in Korea, but from what I've read and heard about traffic there, I suspect the crowding on a Korean MUP is many times greater than on even the most crowded US MUP. I've never seen an ambulance on an American MUP, and injuries, from all sources I'm aware of are rare.
You probably aren't aware of the injuries on American MUPs because injuries are not widely reported, and there is near ZERO mechanism to gather injury data on MUPs. It would not be unfair to say that if it didn't happen on a road and it didn't involve a crash with a car, it didn't happen.

Yes, injuries on MUPs are rare, but not as rare as you think. Example, five injury crashes in a two week stretch on a single tree root on the Minuteman, one requiring 911. The tree root was quickly repaired. I can think of three bikeforums members who have been injured by crashes on Greater Boston MUPs.

So, now to Korea:

But many of the bike paths along the rivers in Greater Seoul (Kyonggi-Do) are WIDE. Many kilometers where pedestrians are separated from wheeled traffic. Quite a few where each direction of the bike path are separated from one another.

That said, there are bottlenecks where the path gets pinched, typically with speed limit signs (20 kph seems common), and lots of pedestrians (and crossing pedestrians) when the path goes along the edge of one of the many parks. Yes, there are far more people on the river trails in Seoul, but it's 100 km of trail, versus 16 km of Minuteman. Except for the pinch points, it doesn't feel that crowded, and I never feared for my life or limb. (Many of the "speedsters" also like to ride to music like they are in an outdoor spin class, so I could hear them coming from a long way away.)

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've also never seen anyone riding a escooter faster than 25 km/hr (about 15 mph). Is that really common in Korea?
To a first approximation, uncommon is common in Seoul. The hoverboards fad (and the e-skateboards, and the onewheels, and the solowheels fads) arrived in Seoul a few years ago, and yeah, some folks push the limits of sane speeds. Many of them learn painful lessons. Daming with faint praise, e-kickscooters seem rather bland.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 09-26-19 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 09-26-19, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
You probably aren't aware of the injuries on American MUPs because injuries are not widely reported, and there is near ZERO mechanism to gather injury data on MUPs. It would not be unfair to say that if it didn't happen on a road and it didn't involve a crash with a car, it didn't happen.

Yes, injuries on MUPs are rare, but not as rare as you think. Example, five injury crashes in a two week stretch on a single tree root on the Minuteman, one requiring 911. The tree root was quickly repaired. I can think of three bikeforums members who have been injured by crashes on Greater Boston MUPs.

So, now to Korea:

But many of the bike paths along the rivers in Greater Seoul (Kyonggi-Do) are WIDE. Many kilometers where pedestrians are separated from wheeled traffic. Quite a few where each direction of the bike path are separated from one another.

That said, there are bottlenecks where the path gets pinched, typically with speed limit signs (20 kph seems common), and lots of pedestrians (and crossing pedestrians) when the path goes along the edge of one of the many parks. Yes, there are far more people on the river trails in Seoul, but it's 100 km of trail, versus 16 km of Minuteman. Except for the pinch points, it doesn't feel that crowded, and I never feared for my life or limb. (Many of the "speedsters" also like to ride to music like they were in an outdoor spin class, so I could hear them coming from a long way away.)



To a first approximation, uncommon is common in Seoul. The hoverboards fad (and the e-skateboards, and the onewheels, and the solowheels fads) arrived in Seoul a few years ago, and yeah, some folks push the limits of sane speeds. Many of them learn painful lessons. Daming with faint praise, e-kickscooters seem rather bland.

-mr. bill
Good info, thanks!

Just out of curiosity, and not sure you're at liberty to answer it but, in general terms, how do you find out about things like the repeat-offender tree root? If 911 was only called once, how did the other four injuries' connection to the same root get noticed? Stuff like that gets taken care of so well on the Minuteman that I'm just wondering how they figure it out.
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Old 09-26-19, 02:24 PM
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Effectively whispernet about a year ago.

I happened be the one who called 911, but the workers in the adjacent building told me that they weren't the first who went down on that tree root, second one that week (and it was only Wednesday), three the week before. All hurt badly, but they were the first to land heads.

So I know a guy - and let them know it wasn't just one crash.
The roots were marked that day!
Cones were placed by DPW within the week, and repaired on the 8th day.

So compared to creating life, the universe, and everything, slipped two days.

-mr. bill
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Old 09-26-19, 06:08 PM
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Moped = motor and pedals. Let's see, it has an electric MOTOR and it has pedals so it is a, you guessed it, moped. An electric scooter is worse in that it has no pedals to make any pretending of not being a MOTOR VEHICLE. Neither belong on a MUP. Why not invite a Prius or the new electric Harley Davidson Sportster?
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Old 09-26-19, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
Moped = motor and pedals. Let's see, it has an electric MOTOR and it has pedals so it is a, you guessed it, moped. An electric scooter is worse in that it has no pedals to make any pretending of not being a MOTOR VEHICLE. Neither belong on a MUP. Why not invite a Prius or the new electric Harley Davidson Sportster?
I am a little confused whether we are talking about an electric scooter:



or an electric scooter



I have no problem with the former, not keen on the latter.
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Old 09-26-19, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
You probably aren't aware of the injuries on American MUPs because injuries are not widely reported, and there is near ZERO mechanism to gather injury data on MUPs. It would not be unfair to say that if it didn't happen on a road and it didn't involve a crash with a car, it didn't happen.

Yes, injuries on MUPs are rare, but not as rare as you think. Example, five injury crashes in a two week stretch on a single tree root on the Minuteman, one requiring 911. The tree root was quickly repaired. I can think of three bikeforums members who have been injured by crashes on Greater Boston MUPs.

So, now to Korea:

But many of the bike paths along the rivers in Greater Seoul (Kyonggi-Do) are WIDE. Many kilometers where pedestrians are separated from wheeled traffic. Quite a few where each direction of the bike path are separated from one another.

That said, there are bottlenecks where the path gets pinched, typically with speed limit signs (20 kph seems common), and lots of pedestrians (and crossing pedestrians) when the path goes along the edge of one of the many parks. Yes, there are far more people on the river trails in Seoul, but it's 100 km of trail, versus 16 km of Minuteman. Except for the pinch points, it doesn't feel that crowded, and I never feared for my life or limb. (Many of the "speedsters" also like to ride to music like they are in an outdoor spin class, so I could hear them coming from a long way away.)



To a first approximation, uncommon is common in Seoul. The hoverboards fad (and the e-skateboards, and the onewheels, and the solowheels fads) arrived in Seoul a few years ago, and yeah, some folks push the limits of sane speeds. Many of them learn painful lessons. Daming with faint praise, e-kickscooters seem rather bland.

-mr. bill
Iím confused. Did the MUP cause the injuries or was it the tree root?
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Old 09-26-19, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sumgy View Post
I am a little confused whether we are talking about an electric scooter:



or an electric scooter



I have no problem with the former, not keen on the latter.
Well, me too, but that said, they both have a motor, an electric motor. They just brought those rental things to my town. The laws do not allow them on sidewalks and I think they are not allowed on the MUPs but I think they are allowed to clog up the bicycle lanes. The problem with allowing a motor powered vehicle is drawing a line in terms of speed, power, weight, appropriate braking power for the weight and potential speed capability. It is pretty easy to take a scooter with one motor in it and put another motor in it that has twice the power. Why not this, my Honda Monkey 125cc:



If the scooter is allowed, why not a Monkey? When I got it there was about 9.5 horsepower on tap, now with a cam, air box mod, an ECU flash and I am pulling about 12 now. It will only go like 60 or 70 MPH, is that a problem on a MUP? If you think people will not soup those things up, well, they will and you will have a 40 MPH scooter zinging by, electric or not. The fellow with the thread about the hands-off cyclists, wait until he gets passed by a Zip scooter, hands-off at 40 MPH. Well, there is an easy line to draw, you either are 100% human powered or you are not. If it has a motor or an engine, it belongs on the road, not mixing it up with human powered traffic, bicycles, pedestrians and the like.
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Old 09-26-19, 08:46 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
Well, me too, but that said, they both have a motor, an electric motor. They just brought those rental things to my town. The laws do not allow them on sidewalks and I think they are not allowed on the MUPs but I think they are allowed to clog up the bicycle lanes. The problem with allowing a motor powered vehicle is drawing a line in terms of speed, power, weight, appropriate braking power for the weight and potential speed capability. It is pretty easy to take a scooter with one motor in it and put another motor in it that has twice the power. Why not this, my Honda Monkey 125cc:

If the scooter is allowed, why not a Monkey? When I got it there was about 9.5 horsepower on tap, now with a cam, air box mod, an ECU flash and I am pulling about 12 now. It will only go like 60 or 70 MPH, is that a problem on a MUP? If you think people will not soup those things up, well, they will and you will have a 40 MPH scooter zinging by, electric or not. The fellow with the thread about the hands-off cyclists, wait until he gets passed by a Zip scooter, hands-off at 40 MPH. Well, there is an easy line to draw, you either are 100% human powered or you are not. If it has a motor or an engine, it belongs on the road, not mixing it up with human powered traffic, bicycles, pedestrians and the like.
Where I live e-bikes and e-scooters (like the 1st one) have their motorised speeds limited to 25kmh.
Strong cyclists can obviously go at much higher speeds than that via pedal power, but probably shouldn't (although Strava often shows differently).
But yes, people are "souping them up".
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Old 09-26-19, 10:35 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Sorry, it seems to me that this is a ------------YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN--------thread.
If you mean a mode of transportation going at speeds well over 50km/h , currently ridden illegally by novices on the same paths shared by all sorts, including kids with training wheels, and soon to be made legal,

increasing the number of people who have had no experience riding these e scooters to work to avoid traffic,

then yes, this is a " YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN " thread.

The last thing I want to see or hear about are deaths that could have been prevented, through proper consideration, and education. I have written to the council about the possibility of restricting the speed of the e scooters to 25km/h, like the e bikes.

Unfortunately , sometimes, the powers that be only react when it's too late.

Last edited by SlinkyWizard; 09-26-19 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 09-27-19, 07:29 AM
  #25  
mr_bill
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
I’m confused. Did the MUP cause the injuries or was it the tree root?
Yes?

Originally Posted by rholland1951 View Post

....

The root heaves near the Park Ave. overpass have been reported to the Town, but haven't been fixed yet. They have been causing accidents. Please be careful of them, especially the particularly tall one in the outbound lane.


....

rod
-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 09-27-19 at 08:03 AM.
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