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When can I expect riding to become enjoyable?

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When can I expect riding to become enjoyable?

Old 11-13-20, 03:07 PM
  #176  
gene99
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Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
Wow, you really can't read, can you?
Cargo, did you not say, "I don't need to pretend I like to suffer or some other idiotic machismo."

How should that be interpreted, as a compliment?
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Old 11-13-20, 03:12 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Yeah, but hopefully these people understand that they will never get any more fit or faster, just riding with the same exertion level as they would when walking. They won't burn many calories either. To my mind, these people probably ought to be riding ebikes. Or should just stick with walking as an exercise.
I worry about going places. And often about if I can get there in time. There IS suffering at times, making it hard. I ride a frigging cargo bike, not an unloaded super light road bike, dressed in lycra. I ride to get to places, I ride because I like it. The occassional suffering is there, but I don't actually seek out suffering, and I find the very notion of finding suffering enjoyable outright laughable and empty machismo.

Gene99, as an example, somehow pretends I don't suffer in order to make a stupid strawman. I do suffer. I just don't like it. He should try riding a fully loaded cargo bike in traffic - and sometimes on cobbled streets, depending where I'm going.
It's as if road bikers think they're the toughest out there, that they can do anything, and that no other people can put power down, fight a hill, cobbled streets, or go into the wind. Most of the wanna-be racers I see around have no idea what it takes to take actually do something with your bike, carry heavy stuff around (including your kid), regardless of the weather, and regardless of the surface, because that's what you have to do.
Most normal people (i.e. not training-geeks) don't have time for going nowhere for, say, an hour each day on some superlight bike. They have to do sh-tuff.

There's a reason that road bikers tend to do supported tours where they don't have to carry anything, because somehow, that would mean they couldn't go "fast enough", yet they complain about suffering up hills, while riding dainty little ultralight bikes.
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Old 11-13-20, 03:20 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by gene99 View Post
Cargo, did you not say, "I don't need to pretend I like to suffer or some other idiotic machismo."

How should that be interpreted, as a compliment?
It shouldn't be "interpreted", and certainly not as if I was saying "I don't suffer". That's not even skirting the edge of truth, that's making a strawman.
In that same posts, I explained why it ws "idiotic machismo", and one part of that is that we all suffer at times, most people don't try to argue that they enjoy suffering or that suffering is a goal in itself. THAT is "stupid machismo" in my book.

You were the one (American) who tried to argue that Pros riding on cobbled streets somehow was proof that no one else could suffer (have you ridden there yourself? I bet not), and that people who didn't view suffering as goal, couldn't possibly suffer (as if that would be a bad thing).

Here's the post you tried to strawman:

https://www.bikeforums.net/21788512-post162.html

Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
I live in Denmark. We have plenty of cobble stoned streets here. I don't need to race to "suffer" or find something uncomfortable or having to stand so my fillings won't shake loose. And I don't need to pretend I like to suffer or some other idiotic machismo.

Try doing those same cobbled streets with 40 kilos of cargo (or child) while jostling motor vehicles and riding a bike much longer and wider than those race bikes. Maybe your unloaded racing bike (or those you have seen on telly running on cobble stones) isn't so unique when it comes to not being comfortable.
I gave you a concrete example of carrying a lot of weight, in cobbled streets, in traffic, while dodging traffic to keep your child safe. And you continue with wanna-be racer talk about people in tour de france doing a "tough" course on TdF. Yes, it may be tough for pros on ultralight bikes, but there are many ways something can be "tough".

Last edited by CargoDane; 11-13-20 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 11-13-20, 03:32 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Cacti View Post
I would love to build my own bike, but hear it's a LOT more expensive. Is that true? I'm told bike shops buy in such volume you can't beat their prices on individual parts
Depends what you want. If you want specific things not easily gotten hold of by the shop, it will be expensive no matter what. And if you want things not easily gotten hold of by the shop, the price difference won't be huge anyway. If you want something reasonably standard, it can potentially be cheaper to go through a shop. But keep in mind, he will quite certainly add margins to each part, so even if he does get it cheaper, you may not.

Last edited by CargoDane; 11-13-20 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 11-13-20, 03:43 PM
  #180  
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I think I have found what you stumble over, Gene99, so let me rephrase the first paragraph of the folllowing post - part bolded is where I think you went wrong:
Originally Posted by CargoDane View Post
I live in Denmark. We have plenty of cobble stoned streets here. I don't need to race to "suffer" or find something uncomfortable or having to stand so my fillings won't shake loose. And I don't need to pretend I like to suffer or some other idiotic machismo.

Try doing those same cobbled streets with 40 kilos of cargo (or child) while jostling motor vehicles and riding a bike much longer and wider than those race bikes. Maybe your unloaded racing bike (or those you have seen on telly running on cobble stones) isn't so unique when it comes to not being comfortable.
So, here's another try at that first paragraph:

I live in Denmark. We have plenty of cobble stoned streets here. Other people than racers and wanna-be racers suffer or find something uncomfortable or having to stand so my fillings won't shake loose. And I don't need to pretend I like to suffer or some other idiotic machismo.

So, there. More clear now?
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Old 11-13-20, 03:52 PM
  #181  
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Interesting. I have been car-free for much of my adult life (no longer am---cars are great every now and then) so I have ridden in every miserable situation--sore, tired, 19 days in a row, the worst weather, carrying loads, fighting rush-hour traffic ....

I have also done fast group rides where the phrase "turning oneself inside out" became starkly accurate---that is exactly what it feels like.

I found that I could push myself well past what i ever imagined--i could endure discomfort and pain and yes, suffering, for much longer than I ever imagined, and that i could push myself much longer and harder than I would have dreamed. I found out that if I had a reason (stupid pride in this case) I could keep up and even on one occasion excel---and the main memory is not how well I did but how

Incredibly badly it sucked.

I understand that some people find validation in pushing towards, and then extending, their limits. Great. We all have our paths. And having proved to myself that I could endure All the worst parts of cycling .... I no longer need to prove Anything.

I don't push hard unless I feel like it, and I back off when I feel like it. I don't care.

I reject the notion that "Faster and Stronger is Better." "Better" is whatever I think is better--for me--at any given moment.

I don't need the validation of the brotherhood of riders who like to brag about how much they can hurt themselves.

I respect them for their achievements---but they are not special for it. They have chosen a path, and they pursue their goals. So what? A lot of cyclists have mythologized racing, suffering, performing, and all that .... but that is just one myth.

I know that is can be equally hard, and take equal mental discipline, to get up every morning and ride, ride in the afternoon, and then again late at night, with absolutely no regard for conditions other than packing and dressing appropriately. 95 degree and 95 percent humidity? Rush-hour traffic at 55 mph on a narrow road with no shoulder and no alternate route? Pouring rain? Freezing rain? Standing water and sub-freezing temps? Hurricane-force winds?

When you have to work to eat, buy food to eat, or take care of whatever business to keep your life going, you just get out and ride. And at least for me, I could not have One negative thought, even knowing I was already tired, my legs felt like they had been beaten with a ball-peen hammer, and that I had a lot of miles to ride in the worst road and traffic conditions in freezing rain or whatever. I needed every bit of energy just to get out and ride.

So freaking what? There is no Commuter Grand Tour ... but I would have been a top competitor.

So what?

Nowadays I often refuse to ride if it is raining on a hot or warm day. Sometimes I look out at a perfect day, just cool enough and still warm enough, no wind, the sky just gorgeous, and say, "Ah, I'm just not feeling it." I have earned the option to ride only when and how I like.

I won't put anyone down for doing the same, and I ignore--often with a bit of humor---all those people who think they are superior because they do what they want to do and I choose Not to do what They want to do.

I don't ride a bike to prove I am tough or fast or rugged or whatever ... I simply love riding my bikes so I do it.
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Old 11-13-20, 03:55 PM
  #182  
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Well said, Maelochs.
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Old 11-13-20, 09:19 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
You have to invest time and $120 or so in bike specific tools to add to your standard toolbox. Do it a time or two and it pays for itself. Do it twenty times, and it can pay for a nice stable of bikes that you can keep perfectly tuned for eternity.
I don't know. The bike I just bought (from an online bike store) is driving me insane and I haven't even had it a week. There was a rubbing noise from the rear wheel and I took it to a bike shop. The dude was really cool, asked me to leave it for an hour and he fixed it for like $20. After one short ride, it started rubbing again. The bike has hydraulic brakes and there is no way for me to adjust those pads so that they're not rubbing against the disk. I'm now convinced it's the tire being out of alignment

I mean, I know exactly what's going on. If I had one of those tools (that look like a micrometer), I could buy a spoke wrench and fix it myself. This bike has spent more time upside down in my living room with me trying to fix it than it has being ridden. I'm half tempted to buy a stand, the tools and fix it myself just out of principle. I'm so mad and disappointed. I just wanted a bike to go riding. Should it really be THIS much work? Am I being too picky? I'm not sure if a little rubbing is okay or not. I just know that friction causes me to lose speed, not to mention the pads wearing out too soon. I'm at my wit's end with this and I've only had the bike for 4 days!
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Old 11-13-20, 09:45 PM
  #184  
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^ It's a lot easier when you have the tools and know-how to fix every problem you might encounter. That's one reason I stick with vintage lightweights. They're super easy for me to keep perfectly dialed-in.
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Old 11-14-20, 05:32 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by Cacti View Post
I don't know. The bike I just bought (from an online bike store) is driving me insane and I haven't even had it a week. There was a rubbing noise from the rear wheel and I took it to a bike shop. The dude was really cool, asked me to leave it for an hour and he fixed it for like $20. After one short ride, it started rubbing again.
Find a mechanic who can actually fix the bike.
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Old 11-14-20, 06:06 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only View Post
So I have been riding 8-10 miles for almost 3 weeks now, almost every day. I will be going to every other day primarily due to elbow pain issues, as well as thigh soreness. But I digress. In all honesty, there is nothing I enjoy all that much about it. I want to quit the first couple of miles almost every single time.
...
So I guess all that is background for should I expect to get to a place where I like it more?
It took me 2 or 3 months of being car-free before I felt like it was tolerable. Somewhere in 4-6 months I started to enjoy it.

I know that doesn't sound all that encouraging but I do remember feeling like it was all worth it. I didn't even care about fitness when I started; I wasn't even certain that I would gain much fitness. I was just getting around. But when I saw a few gains, that did become part of the goal. There's something to be said for improving yourself, just a little better, almost daily.

Regarding the suffering mythos. At some point, after the initial gains, if we want to improve appreciably we have to push beyond our comfort zone. If that's "suffering" then yes, we have to suffer for gains. I don't see it that way, and for me there has never been as much "suffering" as when I first started cycling. Partly for psychological reasons, and partly because pushing past the latest plateau is not always a priority. Regardless, I think the first few months were by far the hardest with respect to "suffering".
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Old 11-14-20, 12:12 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Find a mechanic who can actually fix the bike.
Best advice yet
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Old 11-16-20, 12:13 PM
  #188  
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I was in loads of pain for a long time when I first started riding too (mostly my neck and butt). Nowadays my quads are still almost always sore but the rest of the stuff has gone away. It took almost a year for me to truly build up "cycling muscles". I also had to get my fit right and find a saddle that works for me. I say give it more time. Increase your mileage gradually and give youself sufficient recovery time. Stretching, core exercises, and massage really help too.
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Old 11-16-20, 12:24 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only View Post
So I have been riding 8-10 miles for almost 3 weeks now, almost every day. I will be going to every other day primarily due to elbow pain issues, as well as thigh soreness. But I digress. In all honesty, there is nothing I enjoy all that much about it. I want to quit the first couple of miles almost every single time. Somehow, I've manage to always complete the predetermined route, usually with a bit of tiredness.

I thought I'd enjoy the scenery of streets and trails I've never seen before. Nope. I thought I enjoy getting out a lot more having been shuttered in during the pandemic. Not so much. And I genuinely hate with a passion every overpass and underpass that I have to go through. But even having said all that, I have a strong compulsion to keep going every single time and especially before the ride begins. I've never cut off a ride earlier than I planned. I feel forced to ride before the journey begins so it's certainly not a lack of motivation problem. Which is a bit unusual because knowing myself I could have easily given up for good after the first few days/a week.

I don't have any plans to quit any time soon. I'm not sure if I do it for the fitness. I think definitely to some extent. I don't think I do it just to play with the shiny new toy. So I guess all that is background for should I expect to get to a place where I like it more? Would a much better bike make it more enjoyable? I currently ride a 3 speed entry level bike. I think enjoy it for the most part but don't have a comparative basis.
Kind of hard to answer. I got my first bike (except from days more than 20 years earlier) in 1999. I liked it immediately, but: it did make me sore. I live about ten miles from work, and I got the back late spring. I figured: maybe by the end of the end of the summer, I'll be able to ride to work.
Instead: it took me three weeks before I was commuting regularly. Keep at it and it very quickly becomes easier (though if you have an actual injury to your wrist that well may interfere). But I love all those things you don't like...I mostly ride the same places these days as I have been for years. And I don't get tired of them.
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Old 11-16-20, 12:28 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only View Post
So I have been riding 8-10 miles for almost 3 weeks now, almost every day. I will be going to every other day primarily due to elbow pain issues, as well as thigh soreness. But I digress. In all honesty, there is nothing I enjoy all that much about it. I want to quit the first couple of miles almost every single time. Somehow, I've manage to always complete the predetermined route, usually with a bit of tiredness.

I thought I'd enjoy the scenery of streets and trails I've never seen before. Nope. I thought I enjoy getting out a lot more having been shuttered in during the pandemic. Not so much. And I genuinely hate with a passion every overpass and underpass that I have to go through. But even having said all that, I have a strong compulsion to keep going every single time and especially before the ride begins. I've never cut off a ride earlier than I planned. I feel forced to ride before the journey begins so it's certainly not a lack of motivation problem. Which is a bit unusual because knowing myself I could have easily given up for good after the first few days/a week.

I don't have any plans to quit any time soon. I'm not sure if I do it for the fitness. I think definitely to some extent. I don't think I do it just to play with the shiny new toy. So I guess all that is background for should I expect to get to a place where I like it more? Would a much better bike make it more enjoyable? I currently ride a 3 speed entry level bike. I think enjoy it for the most part but don't have a comparative basis.
if you don't like to ride a bike don't, if you want some exercise try something else, walk, jog, run, play tennis, many many options out there, I recall back in the 80's and 90's so many people complaining about going to aerobics classes, it seemed the only reasons they went were for the community (a good reason) and for vanity wanting to look good. let it go, find something you like
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Old 11-16-20, 12:32 PM
  #191  
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Man, what a bunch of sh*ts on this site. Bye.
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Old 11-16-20, 12:34 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by SC Geezer View Post
Man, what a bunch of sh*ts on this site. Bye.
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Old 11-16-20, 12:36 PM
  #193  
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I hear ya! Recumbency is my answer to that

Iíve been riding bicycles fir about 60 years. When I was young it was about adventure. My parents would have to come pick my buddy and me up from little prairie towns. Later riding was all about speed, time trials, and triathlons- exciting! In my 40ís and 50ís it was a social thing, group rides and Biking Across Kansas. Many centuries were ridden and I was always uncomfortable, at odds with my bicycle, some part of me always hurt or was numb. I hated it but loved the camaraderie. About a year ago I discovered recumbent bicycles- Iím not talking about trikes! My joy and sense of adventure returned. I am completely comfortable on my recumbent and fast enough to scare myself. In the meantime, I get to enjoy the sights around me and return home without any aches and pains. May I suggest a recumbent bicycle to you?
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Old 11-16-20, 12:47 PM
  #194  
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My parents bought me my first bike when I was 3 years old complete with 16 inch solid tires and training wheels. I was hooked for life. Rode it around the neighborhood everyday and being able to take the training wheels off and balance the bike a few months later was one of the best days of my childhood.

They say you donít choose your hobbies, they choose you and this was definitely the case with cycling for me. I would give it a few more months but if youíre not enjoying cycling after say 6 months then you have to ask yourself why youíre doing it.
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Old 11-16-20, 01:03 PM
  #195  
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Well said, sir. I once tried going to the gym. I didn't enjoy it, so I didn't do it again.
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Old 11-16-20, 01:06 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
That's the same way with every aerobic sport. When you are running, the first mile is always the toughest. You feel like stopping and going back home. Once you get over that hump then you can continue on for miles.


The secret to planning a good route is this: always go out with the headwind in your face, and finish in the direction with the tailwind. That way you always finish the ride feeling great.


YES. I am guessing your 3 speed bike is a utility type bike. That style of bicycle is designed for sauntering down to the corner store or the subway station down the block. It's not for riding 10 miles at a time. Get yourself a proper drop bar bike where you can stretch out your legs and put down some power. Those overpasses and underpasses will be fast and fun instead of an exercise in frustration.
This was the best response until you said "drop bar". For love of God do NOT get a drop bar. OMG what's wrong with you people?

How many bikes have I ridden that were almost perfect except they were ruined by having drop bars? Way too many. Too bad it's such an involved conversion.
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Old 11-16-20, 01:15 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by TheLizard View Post
This was the best response until you said "drop bar". For love of God do NOT get a drop bar. OMG what's wrong with you people?

How many bikes have I ridden that were almost perfect except they were ruined by having drop bars? Way too many. Too bad it's such an involved conversion.
I don't ride drop bars usually, but that's your opinon? And with those "OMG" and whatnot?
I think a gravel bike at some point will be my first drop bar bike since my only drop bar bike I had when I was 13 (so 35 years ago). It has benefits over flat bars and vice versa.
I hope it's in jest, but you can rarely tell with these things.
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Old 11-16-20, 01:25 PM
  #198  
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It's the bike

In 2012 we went to Berlin and collected two new Bella Ciao bicycles from the owner of the company, Matthias. This came after reading Lovely Bicycle Blogspot. We experienced Berlin in a way impossible to enjoy by car (no parking, traffic jams), U-Bahn/S-Bahn (subway - under the streets) or walking (too far to get to places). Then we went to Dresden by train and with friends rode our bikes from Dresden to Prague before checking them in with Emirates and flying home. We loved it. We travelled like hobbits (first breakfast, morning coffee, midday lunch, afternoon cake and coffee, evening dinner, late night drinks) and were lucky to do 18 miles a day. Of course, every day was sunny, it was late Spring, but what made it was the quality of the bicycle. We wore street clothes, no helmets, and EU bike route 2 was paved and far from roads with cars and trucks. The Italian frame absorbed shock of cobblestones, gravel portions of the road and the occasional pothole.




Then in 2016, we returned to Berlin, but this time we rented NextBikes and hated them. They were uncomfortable, clunky, sluggish and made cycling a completely different experience. The city felt completely different. It was rather amazing how the same two wheels with handlebar and pedals changed the experience.

When we brought our Bella Ciao bikes home, with our hills and wind, a 3-speed push bike is misery. So we promptly converted them by adding Bafang BBS mid-mount ebike kits. It's now our primary way to get to the city and we love every minute of it.

In my garage is a Peugeot PX-10 that I bought new. It's a racing bike, meaning you are supposed to win the Tour de France riding it. It has a 72į parallel frame with a Brooks Professional Saddle that refuses to be broken in. It is exceptionally lightweight with ten speeds. It also has almost no road wear, merely the deterioration that comes from sitting in a garage, unused. Why? Because it is not comfortable. It does not feel right. I can see where I would go faster on it, but it's no fun.

Bicycle geometry is a bit like chess, it looks simple but the number of variations is almost infinite, and only a few are winners. Bikes are made for many different purposes, and bike stores too often sell the customer the wrong bike - either because they don't have the right bike, or the salesperson is inexperienced. If you live in a flat place, you need a different bike than hilly. Windy vs calm. Speed vs pleasure vs getting around. Age and body fitness makes a difference. Now with ebike kits and purpose built ebikes, more people can enjoy biking, but many of the ebikes are not great designs. Shock absorbers are essential for severe off road mountain riding, but on a town and country bike, no one has come up with a better answer than spring steel. The front fork of a classic European bike took decades to perfect, but they have had a century to do it. A Dutch bike will ride different than an Italian bike because the conditions are different (Holland is flat, windy and they keep their bikes outside). In old England, Raleigh made the DL1 - a roadster that is as comfortable and soft as a 1950's Cadillac. It was used by police, postal delivery and grownups. But they also made the Sport model (DL-24) that has a different geometry and is more suited for teenagers.




Raleigh DL-1


So first, look at your bike. What did you buy? What's it made of? What's it's geometry?

If you want to get serious about the research, read Lovely Bicycle (it's dormant now, but full of really useful information). Then start checking out bikes. Some depends on where you live. If you are in the Bootheel of Missouri you won't have much luck. If you are in Boston, Portland or Berkeley you will find a deep knowledge base. Or just pop over to Europe - it's bike heaven,
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Old 11-16-20, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by IGH_Only View Post
So I have been riding 8-10 miles for almost 3 weeks now, almost every day. I will be going to every other day primarily due to elbow pain issues, as well as thigh soreness. But I digress. In all honesty, there is nothing I enjoy all that much about it. I want to quit the first couple of miles almost every single time. Somehow, I've manage to always complete the predetermined route, usually with a bit of tiredness.

I thought I'd enjoy the scenery of streets and trails I've never seen before. Nope. I thought I enjoy getting out a lot more having been shuttered in during the pandemic. Not so much. And I genuinely hate with a passion every overpass and underpass that I have to go through. But even having said all that, I have a strong compulsion to keep going every single time and especially before the ride begins. I've never cut off a ride earlier than I planned. I feel forced to ride before the journey begins so it's certainly not a lack of motivation problem. Which is a bit unusual because knowing myself I could have easily given up for good after the first few days/a week.

I don't have any plans to quit any time soon. I'm not sure if I do it for the fitness. I think definitely to some extent. I don't think I do it just to play with the shiny new toy. So I guess all that is background for should I expect to get to a place where I like it more? Would a much better bike make it more enjoyable? I currently ride a 3 speed entry level bike. I think enjoy it for the most part but don't have a comparative basis.
I would like to know how tall you, and your physical condition? What type of bike are you riding? I'm 6'2" and finding a bike my size is a real PITA. Small bikes kill me and their hell on my knees. You've been riding for three weeks. You got to give it some time, and like others have said, you need to set realistic goals and work up from there, provided that your bicycle isn't the problem.

Don't sell the bike unless it isn't a good fit for you. Keep on riding. I haven't done a decent ride in two years after moving from DTLA. One of the few things I liked about DTLA was the fact that it was better for me to use my bike to get groceries, and to get around town via the public transit system and in conjunction with my bicycle. I loved going out early in the morning, and riding to the grocery store before everyone got up. I took a test ride last week in my new location, and the mild hills sort of kicked my butt, but I shall persist, because its nothing new for me. I got back into "cycling," back in 2012, because I got sick of walking from the train station to the school I was going to (I'm on the 50 year plan for my AA degree ;-) .) It became easier as I kept doing it. The moral of the story is to keep going. Make necessary changes, and keep on going!
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Old 11-16-20, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
2010 When I was 68 y/o My First 2,000 Mile month.
Nice setup!!
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