Does weight really matter on flat roads?
#76
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No, i was dropped by some superfit guy riding an MTB on flat, I was on my road bike. I thought that was bad but later I was destroyed by some girl riding a fixie. I had plenty on gears, she had only one and no brake (damn hipster). My confidence took a serious hit.
#77
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For anything other than stop and go traffic like commuting, aerodynamics is going to matter a lot more than wieght.
That's why in a flat track race, a velomobile will always beat even a TT bike. An upright bike simply can not match the aerodynamic efficiency. If you're going so slow the rolling resistance is greater than the aerodynamic resistance, weight will matter more, but you're talking single digit speeds then.
That's why in a flat track race, a velomobile will always beat even a TT bike. An upright bike simply can not match the aerodynamic efficiency. If you're going so slow the rolling resistance is greater than the aerodynamic resistance, weight will matter more, but you're talking single digit speeds then.
#78
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#79
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Physics ..
Read any Newton ? its been out for a while , he lived (1643–1727), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion
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#82
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The boxcar example, and the trailer one prior to that, were given as extremes that would demonstrate with ease that weight does in fact matter on the flat. A fact that I believe you agree with. They were posted as a way to rebut those claiming more weight doesn't matter... because clearly it does, whether you can notice it or not.
That a few pounds on the bike would require a much smaller amount of extra power to propel at X speed than the extreme examples, and may even be difficult for some to notice, was specified many times over by me.
I think you're being a bit disingenuous saying that equals a straw man.
That a few pounds on the bike would require a much smaller amount of extra power to propel at X speed than the extreme examples, and may even be difficult for some to notice, was specified many times over by me.
I think you're being a bit disingenuous saying that equals a straw man.
We're quibbling over the meaning of the word "matter".
I can attest, however, that a 20 pound bicycle is easier to ride pretty much anywhere than a 55 pound bicycle. I rode the latter 90 miles in one day, once. Interesting experience.
#83
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Read any Newton ? its been out for a while , he lived (1643–1727), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion
#84
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We're quibbling over the meaning of the word "matter".
#85
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1) you get it moving , 2) you keep it moving , being level its less than (1)
and of course (# 3) you get it to stop... So is that the sum of 1 + 2 ? ... your question..
Sir Isaac Newton was dead 90 years before Karl Drais bone shaker Laufmaschine was Patented, 1818 ,
in Germany..
.....
and of course (# 3) you get it to stop... So is that the sum of 1 + 2 ? ... your question..
Sir Isaac Newton was dead 90 years before Karl Drais bone shaker Laufmaschine was Patented, 1818 ,
in Germany..
.....
Last edited by fietsbob; 07-09-19 at 12:20 PM.
#86
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1) you get it moving , 2) you keep it moving , being level its less than (1)
and of course (# 3) you get it to stop... So is that the sum of 1 + 2 ? ... your question..
Sir Isaac Newton was dead 90 years before Karl Drais bone shaker Laufmaschine was Patented, 1818 ,
in Germany..
.....
and of course (# 3) you get it to stop... So is that the sum of 1 + 2 ? ... your question..
Sir Isaac Newton was dead 90 years before Karl Drais bone shaker Laufmaschine was Patented, 1818 ,
in Germany..
.....
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#87
~>~
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The boxcar example, and the trailer one prior to that, were given as extremes that would demonstrate with ease that weight does in fact matter on the flat. A fact that I believe you agree with. They were posted as a way to rebut those claiming more weight doesn't matter... because clearly it does, whether you can notice it or not.
Exactly... weight matters to people in different ways. many non performance related like some people would refuse to ride a heavy bike for nothing other than elitism. Some would be happy that getting a heavier bike was cheaper and perhaps allowed them to spend money on other more needed things, so there is that. If you are lacking in upper body strength a heavy bike might be more difficult to wrangle onto a bike carrier. For performance, still depends what your goals are.. but as far as speed/effort on the flats its going to make about no practical difference, which seems what this thread is mostly geared to. Even if it did, does it really matter? Depends on your goals here... are you racing? Are you trying to not sweat in your clothes going to work? Are you training to be stronger? Usually athletes who are training to be stronger purposely exercise with more and more weight. No one brags about being able to bench press 10 less pounds today. I don't race competitively so even in the hills I don't mind a heavier bike, especially if it has other advantages (like racks and bags and may want to use).
In summary, extra weight is meaningless to me on a flat course, and even on a hilly course I don't mind it, its extra training load is all.
Last edited by T Stew; 07-10-19 at 10:09 AM.
#90
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For the heck of it I did just about what you are saying, and did not hardly notice the extra weight. Actually it was my first ever 100 miler a few years ago. I wanted to get a good shakedown ride with my touring bike I just added new racks and panniers and other gear too, and also wanted to simulate the extra weight I would be carrying fully loaded for touring since I have never cycled with any kind of heavy load other that a bottle of water and my emergency supplies in my saddlebag. So to my 20-some pound touring bike I added another 20-30 lbs in ballast weight, and completed my first 100 miler. It was pretty flat rail trail, and iirc I lost about 2-3 mph compared to my usual rides that are 20-30 miles. Not too shabby considering most of that loss was just the limits of my endurance having only done just a couple 50+ mile rides prior. Usually when people are talking about a 55 pound bike vs a 20 pound bike they are talking about completely different bikes of different build/quality/gearing/etc. But if you use the exact same bike, and just add some weight, the difference is very little and insignificant to most on flat courses with few stops. It can actually give you a mental boost when you pass someone with a multi-thousand dollar carbon fiber road bike on your 1988 steel Schwinn loaded with bags and gear because they think all that weight makes it so much harder and are shocked how easily you are passing them by. Actually they may be jealous of the 4 bottles of local wine you just bought at the farmers market in the middle of your tour through the Adirondack Mountains. Yes even in the hills on a long ride I believe I was much happier cycling after I added the weight of 4 bottles of wine.
In summary, extra weight is meaningless to me on a flat course, and even on a hilly course I don't mind it, its extra training load is all.
In summary, extra weight is meaningless to me on a flat course, and even on a hilly course I don't mind it, its extra training load is all.
#91
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Weight, not so much. Mass is inertia. Mass matters only when you're accelerating or trying to maintain a constant velocity against friction.
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It occurs to me, figuring out if weight matters is something anybody can try at home. A gallon of milk is 8 pounds. A pint's a pound, the world 'round. Anything with a known weight can be attached to a bike.
#93
Senior Member
If our bikes were equipped with steel wheels riding on a smooth steel surface, Like the train examples in other posts, Weight/mass would effect acceleration almost exclusively on a flat. And most of that can be recovered if we have the chance to coast, or at least by minimizing braking.
But the added weight will increase rolling resistance. This increase too can be minimized by maintaining the proper tire pressure for a 15% drop, thus tire deflection remains the same, And that might account for 70 - 85% of the rolling resistance change on pavement.
But the added weight will increase rolling resistance. This increase too can be minimized by maintaining the proper tire pressure for a 15% drop, thus tire deflection remains the same, And that might account for 70 - 85% of the rolling resistance change on pavement.
Last edited by xroadcharlie; 07-10-19 at 06:24 PM.
#94
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The question being: "does weight really matter on flat roads?" one would assume all components of movement ie. starting, stopping and maintaining momentum.
As it is, I engage in what would probably be the perfect practical experiment every week at work to answer this question.
we use a wheelchair bicycle to take residents for rides either around our facility grounds or a couple of blocks further afield around an urban park. Both routes are basically flat.
Same bike, same rider (me) - the only variable is the passenger. Some are small and light, others are large and heavy.
There is a definite difference in effort needed depending on weight.
As it is, I engage in what would probably be the perfect practical experiment every week at work to answer this question.
we use a wheelchair bicycle to take residents for rides either around our facility grounds or a couple of blocks further afield around an urban park. Both routes are basically flat.
Same bike, same rider (me) - the only variable is the passenger. Some are small and light, others are large and heavy.
There is a definite difference in effort needed depending on weight.
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If you stuck a 1.5L Kia engine (me) in a Suburban, I think you'd find that weight matters even on a flat road. My new bike is 10lbs lighter than my old one-wahoo!
And is any road totally flat?
Even my new bike isn't as light as the OPs tho, it's a hybrid- Trek Fx 3 stagger( surely Trek didn't know that Fx means fracture? Especially terrible combined with Stagger! )
And is any road totally flat?
Even my new bike isn't as light as the OPs tho, it's a hybrid- Trek Fx 3 stagger( surely Trek didn't know that Fx means fracture? Especially terrible combined with Stagger! )
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#96
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Having said that, I agree that a pound or few in bike weight doesn't matter much, especially for heavier riders. For lightweight riders it matters a little more.
#98
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tl;dr. Don't care, I ride the bike(s) I like and don't worry about weight. Makes for a fun ride.
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If you stuck a 1.5L Kia engine (me) in a Suburban, I think you'd find that weight matters even on a flat road. My new bike is 10lbs lighter than my old one-wahoo!
And is any road totally flat?
Even my new bike isn't as light as the OPs tho, it's a hybrid- Trek Fx 3 stagger( surely Trek didn't know that Fx means fracture? Especially terrible combined with Stagger! )
And is any road totally flat?
Even my new bike isn't as light as the OPs tho, it's a hybrid- Trek Fx 3 stagger( surely Trek didn't know that Fx means fracture? Especially terrible combined with Stagger! )
#100
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For road biking weight, (total weight bike and rider), is certainly important. Much more or less so depending upon the ride circumstance. That said, as important as weight is, it is nevertheless IMO the most overrated variable of riding and performance. Important for sure. Just not to the level people make it.
When you have people paying three times the price for carbon instead of plastic for things like bottle holders it is insane.
When you have people paying three times the price for carbon instead of plastic for things like bottle holders it is insane.
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