TriBiker19 

That's wonderful! What does your daughter play?

seypat

Daughter is a Sophomore. She plays the French Horn/Mellophone. The son is a Senior. He plays the Viola/Violin in the Orchestra.

TriBiker19 

@seypat and @texaspandj how did your races go?

See any other Centurions on the course, Tony?

seypat

It was a monsoon in DC for most of the run. I can't really review the course. It was raining so hard at times, I thought they had fire hoses out spraying us. I could barely see in front of me. Kind of dangerous, because some of the course has uneven pavement and little potholes. You would go through an intersection and the water would be running/so deep that your shoes would submerge with each step. As one of the on course announcers was saying, "Today you not only get to run the MCM and run with the Marines, you also get to run like a Marine!" The rain was keeping us cool, though. It stopped and the sun came out. Temps shot up above 70 and it became hot and humid.

As for my individual performance, I was hanging close to my pace goal through all of that. Around mile 19, I took a gel and had an immediate reaction. Thought I was going to hurl. I had to walk a couple of blocks till I got a couple of burps out. Never was the same afterward. Still I got back going and was still only about 15-20 seconds slower. I got over those 2 bridges before the final 3-4 mile stretch. It looked like I was going to PR by 2-3 minutes. Then my left foot caught a corner of a concrete joint sticking up about a 1/2" and I went down. I thought I was going to faceplant and break a nose/lose some chicklets. I took some evasive maneuvers and minimized the damage. Word to the wise. If you know you are going down, don't try to stop it. Try to minimize the damage instead. I lunged my right leg out enough where I could get both hands down like a yoga pose. I ended up in kind of a tuck and rolled over my left shoulder/side. Got a bloodied left knee/elbow and a left hip strawberry. That was it. In the process however, I pulled a muscle/got a cramp. I was finished for the day. I got up, walked the rest of the way in, crossed the finish line and got my medal.

Edit for content: I forgot to mention that some of those people running probably have ridden/owned Centurion IMs with 80's paint jobs.

seypat

Like I said in the previous post, I can't really evaluate that individual race because of the conditions. I will say this:

If you are in any way connected to the USMC or the military/service branches in general, and are still able, this should probably be a bucket list race. They have a 10k also and added a 50k Ultra this year. It is such a huge festival/celebration for the USMC and the military branches. It seemed like everyone I was passing or was passing me had on a shirt with "I'm running in honor of so and so who was KIA on so and so date" on the back. Large amounts of middle aged, grizzled vets chugging along(and motoring fast also) headed for that finish line, proudly wearing their colors. Mission Accomplished. I'm not an overly patriotic person. Certainly not a rah rah type of person, either. But, the overall mood and effect of the event is very awe inspiring and moving.

Same edit for this post.

texaspandj

My race was:
The water was freezing cold and took my breath away as soon as I got in. So I dog paddled to catch my breath but every time I tried to put my head in water to swim it would take my breath again. But after stopping and putting my head in water several times I finally got used to it. Then the current was straight at us NOT with us (my biggest fear) and finally the sun was directly in our sight and I couldn't see the buoys so I kept going off course.
But weirdly I felt good just conditions were bad.
Side note: I wore my wetsuit from the '80s it was a little too small in 2019😂
I expected to finish the 1.2 mile swim in 45 min at the most but finished well over an hour.
I asked after and everyone I talked to said the Windy bike was tougher than the swim.
Once out of the water and the long run scratch that I mean walk to bike transition it took a while to take wetsuit off and put on compression top in 45 degree weather but I wasn't in a hurry. Once on the bike I felt completely relaxed, in control and good. I passed hundreds of bikes maintaining a steady training speed effort. In fact only one cyclist passed me. At 40 miles and 16 miles to go it got tough for me. And once I got to the last 7 miles I was directly into severe headwind. I took that opportunity to relax and mentally prepare for run.
I thought I would ride the 56 mile course in 3 hours but came in about 315.
At that point I was starving.
I took my absolute sweet time in the transition to the run. I told a volunteer (as i was WALKING thru transition) that I've never been in such a Not huury in the transition area. BTW the transition area was huge. I spotted a volunteer with a pizza box (I guess on lunch break) I asked could I have a slice he said sure. He opened the box and only 3 pieces were left, I took one. I WALKED out if the transition area still eating pizza and big smile on my face. I didn't start running til I ate the whole slice and drank some water.
Finally running, half of the hundreds i passed on bike now passed me running. I knew around the 1.5 mile mark was some hills so I ran easy. The first hill I made it but my quad starting cramping, self massaged, stretched was on my way. Next hill I once again made to top then other leg full quad Cramp. Med tent massaged it out stretch then on my way. That continued. Every hill (there were 6 in all x 2 because of double loop) same thing , make it to top and cramp. Funny thing I've never ever had a cramp in my quads before!
Also I walked every single aid station except last one. And everyone of them I ate (no drink) and I wouldn't run till I finished eating. I swear I felt and ran like I gained 20 pounds.
I planned on 2 hours for the run and No walking however I finished around/over 3 hrs according to my wife who was tracking me on an Ironman app.
I will say this, my Ironman did not let me down at all. In retrospect the pizza was not a good idea no matter how delicious. And finally I never liked the participation medal thing, I felt like that's why they don't give trophys out anymore to save on cost for the participation medals. But I absolutely earned my participant medal. Truly humbled....but not on the bike.

canklecat

Well done! I can't imagine getting into the water again for a cold swim. Done that in the Navy, never again for "fun."

Ditto, avoiding stuff like pizza for refueling. I love pizza and often eat it after a hard workout or the night before. But the fat content in the cheese, meats and olive oil are hard to digest during exercise. It's better as pre- and post-fuel.

Before any hard or long ride I tend to stick with the same stuff:
Pre-ride fuel
Oatmeal with a couple of eggs stirred in, banana and yogurt.
A homebrewed energy drink with protein powder (10-20 gm protein, not too much), mixed with various supplements, some of which might be banned in sanctioned competitions but I don't care. I'm not out for medals, I just wanna hang with the younger guys and gals and not get dropped on fast rides.

During a ride, my favorite Clif or Larabar (I like the Clif chocolate mint with caffeine) and Clif mocha coffee gels. Plenty of water with electrolytes. Nothing else. If I vary from what works it's gonna be a bad time. Occasionally during a rest break I've grabbed some coffee and a donut and almost invariably end up with coffee/donut burps for miles. But I can't resist the java and sugary gut bombs.

RobbieTunes

Good job, amigos! Seems like lots of folks in Ironman empire were out there laying down some tracks. I rode the Hilly Hundred in Indiana this weekend. (No Ironman, rode the Fiorini in the rain/wind on Saturday, rode an '85 Merckx in the sun on Sunday). Memorable.

canklecat

It's been years since I rode time trials, but if I did so now in the "Eddy Merckx" class (no TT/tri-specific bikes, aero bars, etc.), I'd do the same as I did then:

• Swap from an all-arounder freewheel/cassette to a tighter cluster. For example, I usually ride around with a 13-28, 7-speed freewheels and cassettes, although one of my hybrids has an 8-speed 11-32 cassette. For a time trial I'd go with 13-25 or tighter cluster. With a cassette I'd probably use 11-24 or 12-24 or comparable cluster. Smaller steps are better for staying in the zone. Larger steps offer more versatility for climbing and all around riding, but larger gear steps can be tiring when we're at maximum effort. And if we need anything larger than a 25T cog on the back, we're probably out of contention anyway unless it's a mountain time trial.
• Swap from my usual 50/38 or 50/39 chainring to 52/42 or 53/42. Same reason. If I need to downshift to the smaller ring I'm already in trouble and out of contention. Again, that depends on the course terrain.
• Lower the stem/handlebar -- maybe. I wouldn't necessarily slam a stem because -- contrary to what we were taught umpteen years ago -- the drops aren't the most aero. Drops are aero only if we can keep our forearms parallel with the ground, otherwise any upward angle of the forearms adds to drag. The most aero position is on the hoods with forearms parallel with the ground, torso as low as possible. So I'd get the handlebar to the appropriate height for that -- which I pretty much already do anyway. Turns out it's more comfortable anyway because it's not necessary to slam the stem.
• Tilt the saddle nose down a bit (in some competitions there may be rules regarding saddle tilt). Probably use a saddle with a cutout for perineum relief, if permitted. Even older style Brooks leather and comparable saddles could be had with small cutouts for ventilation.

That's pretty much what I did with my Ironman, when I had only one road bike. Now I have two and a third I'm rebuilding, so one of them will be set up pretty much full time for a TT bike, without going into a full aero frame. I also have a Trek Equinox aero frame TT bike, but it's developed a crack in the weld between the seat tube and top of the tube. Just a hairline, probably still safe to use, but I'm not gonna risk it. It's a heavy frame, so the Trek TT bike isn't any lighter than the Ironman, and might even be a little heavier. That aluminum Trek TT frame is surprisingly heavy. I wouldn't enjoy climbing with it. And I don't really care for the ergonomics of a dedicated TT bike -- an old neck injury makes them miserable to use. And I dislike bullhorn bars too.

So I may set up the Ironman pretty much like @texaspandj does for triathlons. And I'm looking for a semi-aero wheelset, maybe 30mm rim profile, with freehub for a tighter cluster, around 11-25 or so. I have a Bontrager wheelset with semi-aero rims, flat blade aero spokes and freehub, but it's a 10-speed and it's going on the third frankenbike build project for all around road use.

Otherwise, for most TTs/tri-events, aero bar, all the usual mods and tweaks. But the same approach would apply to gearing -- unless it's a mountain time trial or course with significant climbs, there's no point in a rear cog larger than 25T or chainring smaller than 42T. If we need those gears, we won't be competitive.

My favorite local route for time trial practice is 6 miles long, and nearly perfectly recreates a miniature version of the famous/infamous final TT stage of the 1989 Tour de France where Greg LeMond overcame a deficit of nearly a full minute to beat Laurent Fignon by 8 seconds. That's phenomenal for a short 15 mile stage. Besides the aero helmet and bars, LeMond chose the biggest gear he could churn.

Nowadays the style that helped LeMond would work against him. Riders seldom get out of the saddle now, focusing on staying as low and aero as possible throughout, and on the aero bars as much as possible. In the 1989 TdF and, especially, the '90 TdF TT stages, LeMond was out of the saddle and on the bullhorns often. Nowadays the conventional wisdom is to gear down and spin while staying tucked rather than stand to stomp down with power in bigger gears. I was skeptical about that technique until I tried it myself, and now I can catch up with and often pass stronger bigger guys on climbs when I gear down, stay seated and spin.

On my local route, going west to east, it's roughly "downhill" all the way, although it's a roller coaster that gets harder toward the end. It starts with gradual undulations, then finishes with a series of three short, steep humps. Unless there's a tailwind I almost always need to drop down to the small chainring or risk crosschaining to stay in the big ring while shifting as far down as the 24 or 25 cog on the freewheel or cassette. But if I don't want to risk dropping the chain, sometimes it's the least-bad choice to crosschain.

At one point a year or so ago I had 2nd on Strava on that route, well behind the KOM (owned by a friend who's a beast and has a pedaling style like Jacques Anquetil -- toe down, souplesse, the works. Amazingly strong solo cyclist, even in his 50s.) I've since been bumped down a few notches, but it took two or three younger guys riding in pace line to do it. Next clear day with a tailwind I'm going after the KOM again, but this time on a bike set up better for a time trial. I won't get the KOM -- my friend is too strong -- but I'm betting I can snag 2nd again.

I'm not as strong as the younger fellows who beat my previous best, but I'm lighter which gives me an advantage at the end of that 6 mile segment when we hit those short steep rollers. Gotta watch the energy expenditure carefully and be sure to have some reserve in the tank. On some rides I've burned myself up on the long, straight false flat after the halfway mark and had nothing left for the climbs.

And I may get an aero helmet. Checking all the available wind tunnel data, it appears the largest gains besides rider position on the bike come from a snug fitting kit and aero helmet. Other than aero wheels, it appears most of the aero designs on bike frames offer only marginal gains, which may be important at the pro and serious amateur level but won't help me as much as a stronger engine would.

texaspandj

This for sure 💯
I might add that if the TT/triathlon course is hilly and long,use aerobars attached to regular roadbars. Because Using bull horn handlebars with an aerobar attachment will limit you to climbing like you're in the drops of regular roadbars.

RobbieTunes

Nothing helps like a stronger engine, but the helmet, as far as aero, is big, as is the body.

Bear in mind your head position with a teardrop helmet can defeat the advantage, or as Tony Martin said "being aero is about riding in contorted pain."

A nice "in between" helmet is the Giro Air Attack (Shield). Often on sale because of "progress," it's a nice mix of aero helmet design and a face shield that I'm addicted to, with and without glasses. Cool enough in summer (for all but the occasional RAIN oven) and definitely warmer in winter, lacking the venting. It has some, but it's designed to have airflow between the head and helmet, in lieu of being open.

I long ago started ignoring TT's. I may enter one when the Turbo TT bike is done, just to try it, but in my triathlon experience, I've been faster and more successful just riding a well-tuned bike in the drops and staying there, head down, trying to make good, powerful, and consistent circles at the pedal, worry about the time later. (And avoiding run-on sentences.) At the level I tri'd, staying smooth, keeping momentum, and being in the right gear at the right time was more important than aero. Basically the smooth fast dance, just below the real power guys, but ahead of anyone else who couldn't ride "through" the obstacles of gearing, consistency, momentum, and wiggling around on the bike.

The Ironman was for Joe Six-pack, who trained with the bike, raced with the bike, and used his money on wine and women. I've seen literally scores of them at triathlons through the years, both "OEM" and with clip-ons and fast-forward or zero-setback posts. Adapt. Overcome. Enjoy.

TriBiker19 

I was looking at face shield helmets. Are those shields detachable? I don't always want to put in contacts to ride with my bike sunglasses and when it's not sunny I'm just out of luck. I bomb down hills enough that my eyes water and I just can't see.

seypat

I don't know how well that helmet works, but you sure look cool in it. If I could look cool and pro like that, the money spent would be worth it. At least I would look faster.

canklecat

Yup, I've put a few aero helmets on my shopping list, waiting for price changes after the Next Big Thing comes along to distract the serious tri/TT folks.

I'm looking at helmets with an all-arounder configuration so head position isn't as critical. POC claims some of its roadie helmets (Octal and Ventral, I think) test as more aero in computer sims, but I don't think they've done wind tunnel tests to confirm.

But good point about the face shield. I usually need to wear safety glasses during cold weather and allergy season - which means year 'round in Texas. Otherwise my eyes water so much I can't see straight. But even rimless glasses partially block my view looking up from the drops or aero bar.

I might just try a helmet cover if I can find one to fit my helmets. Might help a bit, especially with my Bell Formula MIPS. That thing must churn up a lot of wind turbulence because I can hear it in my videos when using a helmet mounted camera. My POC Omne Air Spin has much lower turbulence noise, usually picking up only when I turn my head.

Looking at my Ironman right now, it's on the trainer... I may put the clip-on aero bars back on and start practicing on the trainer. I took off the clip-on bars earlier this year for group rides. Some folks, including me, give the stink-eye to cyclists using aero bars in group rides. But now that I have a second road bike I can use it for group rides and use the Ironman more for TT practice.

After that, it's just a matter of waiting for a day with neutral wind or a tailwind on that TT route so I can bump up my PR.

texaspandj

C-Cat of note, the TT helmets are designed and most effective worn looking straight ahead (which I know can be tough for you considering your neck issues) and not looking down.
When Greg Lemond won by 8 seconds in the TDF, he could've won by more had he kept looking forward. Every time he looked down the aero helmet acted as a sail, slowing him down.

canklecat

Yup, my old neck injury will definitely be a factor in everything -- helmet choice, bar setup, etc. With a lot of physical therapy this year I've improved a bit, but not enough for the current style TT and aero helmet setup.

I can keep my head and neck aligned with my back for quite awhile, looking up "through" my eyebrows at the course ahead. But only if the helmet cooperates. My POC Omne Air Spin has thicker than usual EPS foam and overhangs too much for that technique, so while it's comfortable and very well ventilated it's only practical when I'm sitting up in a normal roadie position. Unfortunately that rules out the excellent POC Ventral and Octal, which are also thicker with more brow overhang -- I've seen them locally on a couple of riders. My Bell Formula MIPS is a little better -- not too much brow overhang. I just need to find an aero helmet comparable to the Bell.

Looking back at those 1989 and '90 TdF time trials, LeMond's technique and bike setup were very different from each other. The heat of the course on the 1990 20th stage final time trial meant most riders didn't use helmets at all. The course was tougher than the '89 finish, and LeMond's technique would be considered raggedy and inconsistent by today's standards. Nowadays TTs are like a science, with even hand positions tested in wind tunnels. In the 1990 TT LeMond was in and out of the saddle, on the bullhorns as much as the aero bars, often standing to stomp the pedals to maintain momentum against the wind and onto false flats with those slight inline grades that are so deceptive and soul sapping. It may be the last, best example of old school time trialing, where raw strength was as important as technique. It made the '89 TdF final TT look almost elegant in comparison.

And LeMond was impatient and irritable with reporters just before that final 1990 TdF TT, snapping at one "Don't ask stupid questions!" It looked like he channeled that anger into raw energy on the bike. It was still a good lesson for students of the sport, even though he didn't win a single stage en route to the overall win.

I've studied both TdF TT finishes to see if I can improve my technique, reaching down to shift with the downtube shifters while using the aero bars. I don't think my balance will ever be that good. So I'll be switching hand positions with every gear shift, as long as I stick with the stock Ironman setup. I do have a spare set of newer Profile carbon aero bars and 10-speed bar end shifters, as well as an 8-speed set of bar ends on my hybrid that I could swipe and install on the Ironman. But I'm gonna keep it stock for my next attempt at a new PR on that 6 mile TT segment.

seypat

Those Giro Air Attacks are sweet! The black/white one with a Jolly Roger painted on the middle would be wicked. A matching jersey with a big, bloody red "NO QUARTER GIVEN" on the back might be too intimidating for some people. It sure would look great with a Hard Rock IM, though. Just saying.

riva

I think I've got one of them Elites somewhere in my shed. I want to say an 83.. I think candy red. Chart says !COLOR! for 83.. here we go-





I dunno tho refinded or elegence... whatever you want to call it. None of that stuff appeals to me near as much as the 86-88 colors. I used to hate the white of the duo tone bikes back when they were new. I rode a brand new a bike in the early 90's with the duo tone red/white.. never dug it, but now I GET it. The white seat/head toob is what makes the colors on the other toobs shine. Solid bikes looks so BLAH compared with the duo tone bikes.

TXsailor

I must be crazy but I bought this knowing the seat post was stuck and it was too little for me. Now I am hoping I can get the post out and that my daughter will join me & my granddaughter enjoying our Centurions.

texaspandj

Crazy is the norm here or norm is crazy....well whatever...the point is CONGRATULATIONS!
Looks good and a lot of fun. Way to spread the madness.
Also , as you know, patience is key and who knows, the post could be the correct height already.

sdn40

The OG --- $125
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...6638680519052/

markwesti

^^^^The elusive 85' , looks to be a 54cm . You a booker tex ?

seypat

Ooooohhh! That would be hard to turn down. If a person was interested, the BF network could get it across the country. It might take a while. Add says Wisconsin. Robbie knows some people, lots of people.

texaspandj

Oh I saw that this morning. In my sleepy state I thought it was a 54cm. I was prepared to go for it buuut...it's a 56cm.
Right now I'm in the middle of getting my '89 up to something good. We'll see.

texaspandj

This will make my '89 a 9 speed. All parts aren't shown.


This is going on my '89 Summertime Blues Ironman. My son is holding it for me, however, I'll get it Sunday or Monday.