BluFalconActual

king_solom0n

SRAM has lost their f****** minds. The price is a problem but buying a whole new power meter when your chainrings wear out is unacceptable. I prefer rim brakes but if I were to get disc brakes, I would go with Ultegra or Dura Ace Di2. At least Shimano has a decent sized hoods instead of the monstrosity SRAM has. Hopefully Force etap will be priced a lot better.

trailangel

How much for a RD?

Seattle Forrest

I don't want a 10T. Prefer tighter spacing in the middle of the cassette where I spend most of my time.

TimothyH

I'd consider it if the FD battery doesn't interfere with >35 mm tires like the 11 speed etap.

Looks like a great setup for gravel, though I would have preferred something lower than 33 front and 33 rear as the lowest option.


-Tim-

Chi_Z

those 12 speed cassettes are going to cost an arm and leg, i refuse to spend more than $50 on cassettes

superdex

two big assumptions:

I don't want to replace a powermeter every 5 years.

and

Um, perhaps more than SRAM knows. And the subtlety here is new wheels (that support an XDR driver --why can't we just call it a hub?) are also required.

BUT -- if you're in the market for a $3000 groupset, I guess these issues are nonissues. I'd love to have your income and budget.

Psimet2001 

Agreed on power meter. a total non-starter that will damage this more than they realize. On the wheels bit - the XDR driver is already compatible with every 11 speed hub that has been made for years already. As a wheel manufacturer I can tell you that most all of our hub options already have XDR driver compatibility....along with HG 7/89/10/11 options.

Only ones that lose out are Shimano 12 speed microspline and honestly most of the hubs OEMs will have driver conversions for that as well because it too is being licensed for free. The only people losing out are SRAM hubs that can't offer microsplines and Shimano hubs that don't offer XDR. It's all of us aftermarket guys that will be just fine.

BluFalconActual

$350
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...cassette?fltr=

Chi_Z

lol for $350 I can buy a full Shimano 5800 groupset, the 105 cassette prob will last longer too
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...set-72462.html

Canker

Then don't use their powermeter setup. Buy a stages, one of the pedal setups, one of the hub setups, one of the other 10 crank setups. I get that you don't like it but this is a $5k dollar groupset so $500 for a chainring every 5 years shouldn't be a burden to you.

Leukybear 

It's been almost 6 years since I purchased my red 22 group. 3 since retrofitting the same group with OG eTap components.
Countless miles of dependability during my time of ownership, I can say I got more than my money's worth. As a group, red 22 is among my favorites, up there with my groups of road cycling's past: DA 7800 and DA 7400.
Hopefully AXS will prove the same.

Not a first adopter myself but I'll be paying close attention to those that are

Quiglesnbits

This is where I'm at, sort of, with a healthy side of "the price is BONKERS". When I look at this, I effectively see one more cog at the back, and what appears to be a more integrated ecosystem. What SRAM wants me to think is that the functional differences (w/o pm) between this new setup and the previous version of Red eTap are worth an astonishing 1.600 euro. What they are ACTUALLY selling me is something that is more proprietary, I can't use with my bottom bracket out of the box, and I can't use with my trainer out of the box. I would love to be able to try it out, and it seems cool, but it simply is not worth what they want for it in comparison to what they already sell. I'm really having an incredibly difficult time wrapping my head around that price, and I justify a lot of frivolous bike-related things.

BluFalconActual

superdex

Thanks, you're definitely closer to it than I am (I have a 15yr old Campy Record 10sp still, and stuck shopping for Campy hubs until I bite into 11sp). The cavalier tone of the article kinda made the wheel comment a little pointy to me. shrug.

oh, and if you're not careful, you just might be the next Sheldon

noodle soup

Campagnolo 10spd hubs are 11spd compatible.

superdex

yup, but still Campy. When I go 11sp, I'll go Shimano in the back. The cassettes are the same spacing and there are range options that Campy cassettes don't have...

Psimet2001 

Best. Group. Ever.

noodle soup

I concur.

7800 shifting and hubs were so smooth, the brakes were great, and the crankset was beautiful.

7800 isn't as beautiful as C-Record, but it worked much better.

Seattle Forrest

Yeah, but that 5800 group can shift in the front.

Leukybear 

Still have the group in the stable
Sadly the brifters were beyond a rebuild and had to be replaced with 5700 105 which I'm glad to say at that point had a lot of trickle-down tech from big brother. Fresh 7800 commands a premium nowadays; especially the controls.

And yes, the "bonesaw" is one of my all time favorite crankset designs.

Maelochs

I have a couple nice bikes .... and none of them cost as much as just this group set. I am supposed to believe that this group set will magically improve my riding experience .... how much?

And even the Road.cc article was doubtful that the ten-tooth cassette wasn't a loss more than a gain.

Assuming the 10t works out .... In four years everyone will be offering the same gear choices, and when it hits Ultegra or 105 I will definitely be interested. But seriously .... how many people need Higher gearing? How many riders find 50x11 or 52x11 simply too low a ratio? I like the idea of more single steps and still having a really low climbing gear---that's where the Best of Both Worlds rally is offered. As for the 10t .... I ride 7,9,10, and 11-speed on the road. The 10-speed has a 12-28 cassette and I find it to be the equal of the 11-28 11-speed. I'd say there are a lot of more practical gearing options than SRAM is offering .... but even if the new group had the best ratios possible on Earth ... I could buy two very nice bikes for the cost of the eTap Hydro group set, and I would be a lot happier.

I guess there is a market for the dentist, semi-pro racer, rich enthusiast riders and the "must-have-the latest" and the "one-up-on-the-folks-at-the-café" crowd out there. SRAM had best hope so.

Sy Reene

I guess the 10T is needed because the large rings on cranks all are smaller than conventional road offerings. While Shim/Campag typically have 53, 52 or 50 offerings; sram is going to 50, 48,46.

I'm not going to bother with the math, but a 46/10 is equal to a 50/?

DrIsotope

46/10 basically the same as 50/11.

So let's see about the AXS.

• Proprietary chain
• Proprietary cassette
• Proprietary hub body (not even a "regular" xD driver)
• Power meter built into chainring, so a ring replacement for a PM-fitted bike costs nearly $600
• Not backwards compatible to eTap in any way

...aaaand the most common (I would think) 2X rim brake groupset is just... $4,000.

ljsense

I admire how well they did the launch -- it got spectacular attention. AXS was breathing all the air in the room when this thing hit, and it was available immediately for sale. Really well executed marketing campaign. We'll probably see a lot of other companies rethinking the approach of just letting a late prototype be photographed at the Tour.

It definitely looks good. And they made a good argument with basic math: 1. wider range 2. more one-tooth cog shifts 2. smaller jumps between the chain rings.

As for the criticisms about replacing the chain rings/powermeter -- five seasons is a lot of riding, if that claim holds up. I think their market will have no problem with that schedule. A lot of guys I ride with, their joke is when the chain rings need to be replaced, so does the bike. Chain ring replacement -- if you buy new rings -- has always been painfully expensive. I loved Dura Ace 7800, for example, but when I was looking at new chain rings, I was surprised that to get new ones, the MSRP was something close to $300 -- and that was a while ago.

Personally, I am not sold on electronic shifting. Bikes work so well mechanically. I appreciate that electronic shifting can push it even a little better, and do really clever things -- like automatically put you into the next sequenced gear when you do a front shift -- but one less battery to stay on top of has a luxury of its own. Look at old mechanical SLR cameras. Among old SLRs, they're the only ones that people still really want to buy. This is probably the golden age of mechanical systems, so if you get a mechanical Red 22 now, or a DA 9000, in 10 or 20 years it'll work beautifully and have an aura of perfection. In 10 years, AXS will be buried under 4 or 5 generations of more spectacular stuff.

Road bikes are undoubtedly getting better and better, but we're years into where the curve of diminishing returns has gotten vanishingly close to the asymptote. If you wish you could get AXS, but can't afford or justify the price, just look back at the Tour de France results from 10, 20, 30 years ago -- hell, 40 years ago, and ask if you could match those speeds on what's available today. Your riding buddy won't beat you to the town sign with AXS. The defeat is that he or she just has more money to spend on cycling equipment. So beat the hell out of them to the sign or up the hill. That's the greater satisfaction. (If your heart is a little cruel, you might also take some satisfaction when their batteries go dead.)

And the bottom line is, if you really need the advantages AXS offers, someone will pay you to ride it.