Help sourcing vintage short-top-tube steel
07-17-20, 05:09 PM
#51
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This Bob Jackson has been for sale for quite some time, from the bike shop on Bainbridge and what looks to be also private party. The seller says 63.5cm, the bike shop guy lists it as 63cm on his website. All that to say the top tube looks definitely shorter than normal for the seat tube height/length. With the saddle setback you have, it would nullify what looks like a fairly slack seat tube angle.
07-17-20, 05:23 PM
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07-17-20, 07:00 PM
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Univega Specialissima, 1984 or so, seemed sporty with AGC450 cenrter-pulls and modest chainstay length.
But the angles are fairly slack, and the top tube on this 57/58cm bike is only 55cm.
So off to Craigslist she goes unless I find time to test-fit a 110mm stem.
But the angles are fairly slack, and the top tube on this 57/58cm bike is only 55cm.
So off to Craigslist she goes unless I find time to test-fit a 110mm stem.
07-18-20, 02:53 AM
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Looking at the other frames in those records, all top tubes seem shortish ... They are workshop notes. Maybe they wrote down the actual lengths of the tubes used?
07-18-20, 07:44 AM
#55
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We have the same measurements. Old touring bikes, like the Bob Jackson above tend to have more agreeable ST angles, and shorter top tubes. This Bob Jackson frameset in the SF Bay also seems like a solid deal: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik...159433423.html
Earlier Koga Miyatas touring also shared their geometry with the more common domestically available Miyata 610s and 1000s. I ride a 63 x 57 x 72deg Koga Miyata Randonneur Extra, but as you noted, there aren't many state side.
Earlier Koga Miyatas touring also shared their geometry with the more common domestically available Miyata 610s and 1000s. I ride a 63 x 57 x 72deg Koga Miyata Randonneur Extra, but as you noted, there aren't many state side.
07-19-20, 12:27 AM
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We have the same measurements. Old touring bikes, like the Bob Jackson above tend to have more agreeable ST angles, and shorter top tubes. This Bob Jackson frameset in the SF Bay also seems like a solid deal: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik...159433423.html
Earlier Koga Miyatas touring also shared their geometry with the more common domestically available Miyata 610s and 1000s. I ride a 63 x 57 x 72deg Koga Miyata Randonneur Extra, but as you noted, there aren't many state side.
Earlier Koga Miyatas touring also shared their geometry with the more common domestically available Miyata 610s and 1000s. I ride a 63 x 57 x 72deg Koga Miyata Randonneur Extra, but as you noted, there aren't many state side.
07-19-20, 06:53 PM
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An exquisite machine for sure but anything less than 30mm actual width won't cut it for the kind of riding I enjoy: 50+ milers at a decent clip over many unexpected root and pothole laden (with some light gravel) Pacific Northwest roads. Unlike trends in municipal infrastructure spending, this thread has in fact been most encouraging - possibilities, while uncommon, do exist. Happy to wait for the right frame or go custom, if it comes to that
07-19-20, 07:13 PM
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Thanks - I do recall seeing Gios, Casati, Fuji, Miyata and Centurion (late 70s) offerings featuring top tubes approx 2-3cm shorter than their respective seat tube measurement (ctt). But are there more extreme alternatives floating around with greater disparity, like the '89 Paramount?
Cheers, Eric
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07-19-20, 08:32 PM
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I also have this frame by Tim Paterek, who is well know for his frame building manuals. I didn't think it would have enough space between the stays, but I checked... The tire in the photo is a old Tufo 30 mm cross tire, on a gp4 rim. I think that works. It has Vertical drop-outs. I think the TT is 56.5 CTC, and the frame 60ctt. I took some pics this afternoon to post it to CL and for sale.
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07-19-20, 08:56 PM
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Hard to show clearance, but with "modern" higher tensioned wheels, I don't see a problem. This Tufo cyclocross tire is spec'ed at 30 mm. The frame is Columbus SP tubing and silver brazed. Definitely not going to be noodlie.
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07-19-20, 09:51 PM
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Photo Angle makes the TT look deceptively long.
Actual measurements are:
Seat tube ctt 61.6 cm; ctc 60 cm; Top tube is 56.5 ctc.
Elegant Henry James fork crown.
The extraordinary attention paid to the details of this frame, raise it above the craftsmanship of even most custom hand-built frames.
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Last edited by Last ride 76; 07-19-20 at 10:00 PM.
07-19-20, 10:08 PM
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I think this is a 27 incher, but....
https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/b...159127830.html
Underrated Japanese tourer compared to stuff like the Miyata 1k. Touring geometry, but I can't find a catalog with the actual angles or tube lengths. (annoyingly the one Panasonic catalog with geo charts inexplicably excludes the PT3500)
https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/b...159127830.html
Underrated Japanese tourer compared to stuff like the Miyata 1k. Touring geometry, but I can't find a catalog with the actual angles or tube lengths. (annoyingly the one Panasonic catalog with geo charts inexplicably excludes the PT3500)
07-19-20, 10:17 PM
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A Bianchi Trofeo, size 63, with a 57 top tube. I don't know how wide a tire it can handle, though.
I sold this last year to someone in Canada, through eBay, but the shipping and fees were so insane, more than the $165 he was paying for the frame. I told him to find another bike, and then he later said he was laid off, so the non-sale worked out for the best.
I sold this last year to someone in Canada, through eBay, but the shipping and fees were so insane, more than the $165 he was paying for the frame. I told him to find another bike, and then he later said he was laid off, so the non-sale worked out for the best.
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07-19-20, 11:40 PM
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It is the original paint, on the Paterek. Has been in storage since the first season it was built. A number of paint chips from getting moved around, but no rust and it polishes beautifully.
Frame & fork, with seat pin, mint headset, and BB $425.
Without hs or bb, frame, fork and seatpin $350.
Both plus shipping, bike flights or ship bikes.
There is a BF member who worked for Tim, in his college years. He might know more about the frame. BB is stamped PR 001. I bought it to ride, I like the hand-craftsmanship of small shop American builders. But I am done with 60cm bikes. I don't dismount as well.
Frame & fork, with seat pin, mint headset, and BB $425.
Without hs or bb, frame, fork and seatpin $350.
Both plus shipping, bike flights or ship bikes.
There is a BF member who worked for Tim, in his college years. He might know more about the frame. BB is stamped PR 001. I bought it to ride, I like the hand-craftsmanship of small shop American builders. But I am done with 60cm bikes. I don't dismount as well.
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07-20-20, 05:09 PM
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It is the original paint, on the Paterek. Has been in storage since the first season it was built. A number of paint chips from getting moved around, but no rust and it polishes beautifully.
Frame & fork, with seat pin, mint headset, and BB $425.
Without hs or bb, frame, fork and seatpin $350.
Both plus shipping, bike flights or ship bikes.
There is a BF member who worked for Tim, in his college years. He might know more about the frame. BB is stamped PR 001. I bought it to ride, I like the hand-craftsmanship of small shop American builders. But I am done with 60cm bikes. I don't dismount as well.
Frame & fork, with seat pin, mint headset, and BB $425.
Without hs or bb, frame, fork and seatpin $350.
Both plus shipping, bike flights or ship bikes.
There is a BF member who worked for Tim, in his college years. He might know more about the frame. BB is stamped PR 001. I bought it to ride, I like the hand-craftsmanship of small shop American builders. But I am done with 60cm bikes. I don't dismount as well.
