Ryan_M

I have a 2020 Giant Roam 1 that's had a lot of work so far (full M8000 2x11 drive train, M6000 brakes, etc.). I would like to build some wheels for a few reasons: 1. I've never done it and would like to learn, 2. I like working on my bike so it's partly a make work project, 3. might as well make in an upgrade while I'm at it.

So I've done some research on how to do it and have an idea of what I'm getting into work wise but I don't know what I'm getting into price wise. The existing hubs are unbranded and the rims are Giant so I have no idea how good or bad they are. I'm hoping I can get some suggestions on parts that would be a noticeable upgrade so I can price it out and make a decision if I want to move forward.

I do mostly paved and gravel trails and the odd packed dirt trail that may include tree roots etc..

Thanks for any suggestions!

Bill Kapaun

Maybe provide a link to the spec's so we don't have to look it up for basic details like what size? What kind of brakes etc.

Andrew R Stewart 

Questions like these make me ask what is considered an up grade? Or what aspect of the old wheel do you want different? Next ask would be have you build before, or even loosened then retensioned all the spokes on any wheel? Then maybe ask if longevity is part of your "upgrade" expectations... Andy

Ryan_M

Right, sorry guys. Here's a link to my bike.
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ca/roam-1-disc

Rims are 700c 28 spoke. Disc brakes. Existing tires are 700x42 but will likely go to 700x35. As for what I'm looking to "upgrade", the existing rear hub/freewheel bugs me. It's sounds and feels raunchy and I'd like to service it. Both have pressfit sealed bearings which will likely take some hammering or pressing to get apart pooching a bearing or two. Likely easier to manufacture cheaply but not easily serviceable. Also lighter would always be better to climb and accelerate better. I have no idea of the specs of the existing rims so it's a crap shoot, however I doubt they're great quality.

Bill Kapaun

Just a general guide-
32 & 36 spoke rimes & hubs are more available/cheaper if you are trying to keep to a reasonable budget.
Light & strong tends to cost more.
Why not just swap in a new hub?

headwind15

As far as having wheels that accelerate faster and climb better, by a huge margin tire make a much bigger difference. Have you ever ridden a bike with 700 x 23 tires?

Ryan_M

Yeah from what I've read lower spoke count is most just for coolness factor, of course there an aerodynamic advantage but it would be lost on me so 32 spoke is just fine. It would be cool to have 28/32 but it's just a cosmetic advantage.

I want to build full wheels as it will probably take me some time being my first time, plus it seems like a great project to get my OCD fix lol. Also it will give me a set of wheels that I don't mind beating on for more mountain bikey terrains.

I was looking at the exploded diagrams for the Deore XT hubs and they are all cone and bearing construction which I like for serviceability. Not really knowing what I'm looking for the DT Swiss XR 331 rims seem descent. Totally grasping at straws here though.

Bob the Mech

I've laced a few wheels over the years but never had the nerve to sign them off as done until I'd had them checked over by a wheel building friend of mine...

He would gave me these pieces of advice...'Have patience, you can't rush perfection. Get a dishing tool and make sure you know how to interpret a spoke tension chart...oh get a tension gauge...and you'll need a spoke key...14G nipples, right...Just bring them back here after you've messed them up and I'll sort them out for you...' I did get better at it, though he still shakes his head everytime I walk in the shop carrying a wheel, even if it's ready built factory type

Hub choice, rim selection (getting Effective Rim Diameter - ERD) then spoke length takes a fair bit of thinking about.

https://www.prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

But it's a great skill to learn. Good luck with your build.

cpach

The wheels that bike ships with are honestly fairly appropriate for its intended use and cost, but they're not great either.

If you want cup and cone Shimano is tough to beat. They tend to run significantly heavier than other brands, mostly because they have durable steel freehubs, whereas other brands have aluminum freehubs that work fine but will get marred by the cassette. Engagement except for their most recent stuff is pretty poor if you care about it. Servicing many common cartridge bearing based hubs may be less difficult than you think--you can often replace the bearings using not a lot more than the installed axle, the quick release, and some sockets. I'd consider this if you are much concerned about weight.

For your first build don't get any of the DT models that require rim washers--it's a pain in the butt and you'll have enough to struggle with as it is. For hybrid-width tires look for something ideally probably around 20-25mm internal ideally. Velocity Ailerons would be a nice choice, as would Kinlin TL-23s, among others.

Use 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spokes--they'll be more resistant to fatigue failure and save a little weight, without being as difficult to control spoke windup as thinner spokes, and not as costly as aero spokes.

cyccommute 

First, learning. The best way to learn is by doing. I wouldn’t. Necessarily start with new parts that you want to build into a wheel. You will probably be okay but it would be better to practice on something you don’t care about. Get an old wheel...rear is best...and remove all the spokes and spoke nipples. Then relace the wheel. The best explanation I’ve ever run across is an article from 1986 by Ric Hjertberg. The link to the Drop Box article is here. While dated, the method of building is still valid. Read the articles but the 3rd one is the most important for lacing. His article is the basis for a class on wheel building that I teach at my local co-op.

Relace the wheel many times. Lacing really is the hardest part of the build. Lace it, take it apart, lace it again. Rinse and repeat about a dozen times.

Once you are comfortable with the lacing process, move on to tension. Hjertberg’s 4th article is the one to read on tension. You’ll need some tools or you’ll need to improvise some tools. You’ll need a spoke wrench, a screwdriver is handy, and you’ll need something to gauge true and roundness. You can use an upside down frame but it’s easier to use a truing stand. If you don’t have one and don’t want to spend up to $300 on a Park, there are many options for fairly good ones around $60.

A tension meter is nice to have but if you don’t have one, you can do an adequate job by sound. You aren’t looking for a particular sound, you are looking for a consistent sound. Compare the tone of spokes to one another. Since your bike is disc, the tension is going to be different from one side to the other on both wheels. Make sure you compare the sound from only one side of the wheel to spokes on the same side. I usually just strike the spoke with the spoke wrench.

When you have your old wheel tensioned, take it apart and relace followed by retensioning. Do that a couple of times, although the spoke nipple will likely take a beating.

Now on to the new wheels. Don’t build something that you can buy for cheaper. Build with an eye to durability. That doesn’t mean what most people think it means, i.e. a “strong” rim. Rims contribute little to the strength of the wheel. I build wheel with the lightest rims I can but I build with strong spokes. I build all my wheels with triple butted DT Swiss Alpine III spokes. They have stronger heads which results in a stronger wheel. Hjertberg has an article on this too. If you are tempted to build with aluminum nipples or if you want to avoid the problem of rounding square nipples, I suggest using splined spoke nipples from Hjertberg (look at the “Shop” tab on the links above).

Look into good hubs that reduce the need for maintenance. I prefer cartridge bearing hubs to cup and cone. They don’t require adjustment and run nice and smooth out of the box. Bearings last for thousands of miles and are replaced if they go wrong. They aren’t all that hard to replace when (years from now) they might need to be replaced. My favorites are White Industries...smoothest wheels I’ve ever used...and Phil Wood...easiest to take apart in the field. Both are expensive but Whites are about $200 cheaper than the Phils.

As to the number of spokes, if you are tied to 28 spokes...which you don’t seem to be...use the triple butted spokes. Building with them is like adding 4 to 10 spokes to the wheel. A 28 spoke wheel built with triple butted spokes is at least the equivalent of a 32 spoke straight or double butted spoke wheel and possibly as high as 36 spoke wheel. A 32 spoke triple butted spoke wheel is equal to 36 to 40 spokes and a 36 spoke wheel is the equivalent to 40 to 48.

Lots of information, I know. Wheels are all that difficult but there are a lot of details to take into account.

fietsbob

Often a Bike shop can order a wheel built by their wholesale distributor , for less
than you buying all the component parts, rim/spokes/hub. At retail .. then doing the work..

so doing it to learn how it can be done, & pride in DIY, not for saving money.





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Thomas15

Great info.

rydabent

Building a wheel is probably the only thing I dont know how to do to keep a bike in good repair.

However as mentioned in another thread today's computer built wheels are fantastic. Both my bike and trike have computer built wheels, and they are 8 and 12 years old, and in perfect alignment. I have never had to put a spook wrench on them. Long lead in to say just buy new wheels from a good bike supply co.