noodle soup

all the hassles of tubulars, without the benefits.

Carbonfiberboy 

IME depends on the type and quantity of road debris. But yes, true. When we ride the tandem in the wet in winter, I do get more flats from flints which accumulate if they sand the roads after freezes or a bit of snow. The flints stick to the wet tires. I used to put on 4 Seasons or similar, but I've quit bothering and just change the flats if we get them. They're rare enough to make that a smaller bother than running special winter tires. We always carry a spare, so changes are really quick. In summer the difference is not noticeable because the stuff I need to miss is more obvious. I've made lots of mistakes, ridden right over glass or auto debris and not flatted or had a piece of embedded glass to pick out later - usually. That's the amazing thing about the Conti rubber on the 4K and 5000. They also don't cut as easily as many tires do.

I notice that when I get a substantial flat from wear in the center of the rear tandem tire, still nowhere near the cords, that I definitely get more flats. I don't know why. I swap tires and put new on the front. I think it's interesting how quickly we get that flat on the tandem compared with my single. I bet riders who put down a lot of power go through more tires than we duffers do.

MinnMan

Funny thing - we all fear glass, but when I'm by the side of the road, picking out that hard bit that gave me the puncture, I find that far more of my flats are small hard stones - what I think you are calling "flints"?

CAT7RDR

I'm not racing anyone so why do I give two cents what tire you choose to go faster? So what I lose some watts. I'm in it for my health and with arthritic hands, the last thing I want to do is be changing tire tubes on the side of the road. Since I switched to 28 mm tires from 25 mm and adjusted the psi to 85 front and 95 rear, I do not find the ride harsh but firm. I got 8,000 miles out of one set and still had miles to use on the front without one flat. Hard to beat that.

WhyFi

It's been mentioned multiple times - there are many options that don't seem to be meaningfully less puncture resistant while offering better rr, feel, grip, etc.

MinnMan

If you don't "give two cents' about why we choose what we choose, why are you bothering to post in this thread? Nobody said that they were going to pry those Gatorskins out of your cold dead hands.

Do whatever floats your boat, but what I don't get is your tone that apparently judges other peoples' choices and priorities.

Seattle Forrest

lol wut

guadzilla

Incorrect. The data from steel drum testing does translate into real world results as well, as per RChung (and if you wanna tell him he is wrong, be my guest. I know enough not to argue with RChung, especially when he has the data and I dont).

The reason people have reduced the tire pressures a little is to compensate for vibration losses - and this is primarily a factor of tire pressure, and not the actual tire itself (although the suppleness of the tire casing plays a role here: the more supple the tire casing, the lower the vibration losses. And guess how supple the Gatorskin sidewalls are? Not very). The effect of vibration losses holds true across tires, and does not invalidate the rolling resistance side of things.

Gatorskins are about 20W slower than a fast tire like the GP5k. And they are most miserably lifeless, dead-feeling tires I have had the misfortune of riding. If you are commuting or riding in crap conditions, sure, it doesnt matter. But for typical sports cycling, there are so many better options where you trade off a little bit of puncture resistance for a much, much more enjoyable ride. To say that "no one can feel the difference" is absurd. Plenty of us can. We didnt just wake up one morning and decided to beat up on this tire for no reason at all.

BoraxKid

I may not have worked for Oscar Mayer, but I know bologna when I see it. If you don't have anything of value to add to the discussion, please stop posting. My point still stands: the person I was responding to is operating on lame assumptions & guesses instead of actual data. Gatorskins are a fine tire that provide soft, supple grip when inflated correctly, and they deliver best-in-class flat protection. That's why they are so popular in the community.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes.

guadzilla

He a beginner, bro.

Bah Humbug

I think part of the confusion is the conflation of steel drum testing for tire-specific RR (valid) and steel drum testing for ideal pressure for RR (probably not). In the latter, it specifically counters the Zipp data. And often, people cite the BRR steel drum testing to tell people they're dumb for not overinflating their tires, which makes it a touchy subject overall.

Seattle Forrest

This is sage advice. You should reflect on it for a moment.

noodle soup

perhaps you should be the one that stops posting

guadzilla

If you value puncture resistance more than ride quality or speed, then yes, these may very well work for you - no one is disputing this. The other guy just made some weird claims about the performance of Gatorskins (and in the context of these tires, the word "performance" is used in the loosest of senses) and that's what got called out.

BoraxKid

I have only been talking about things I know a great deal about. I have not said anything that is factually incorrect.

Citations needed. You can't just make those claims without showing the actual measurements from the actual tires via a rigorous study.

I never said aero power was linear. What I said, and what still is true (and always will be) is that the power needed to travel at a certain speed has much more to do with air resistance than it does rolling resistance of the tires. The 10W some other poster claimed Gatorskins cost is on the order of magnitude of changing your hand position and tucking in your elbows. The power differences you are talking about, going from 20 to 30 mph, are an order of magnitude larger. The tires simply get swamped by the aero factors at that point.

And now you've lost all credibility due to ad hominem attacks and absurd claims. If you actually own everything "short of a wind tunnel" then why are you buying Gatorskins instead of top of the line, premium tires for your precious TT bike? Gatorskins aren't marketed to your ilk, because they aren't designed for TT bikes. They are designed for people that want a reliable, durable, flat-resistant tire that can still be supple and grippy in the corners, all while staying budget conscious. If you're out for pure performance, no, Gatorskins are not top of their class, but if you want to save some money and spend less time fixing flats, all while getting racing-quality grip, then Gatorskins are for you. It's literally just that simple.

noodle soup

I'm waiting for him to say something useful, If he reaches 250 posts first, he gets blocked.,

Bah Humbug

Yep.

BoraxKid

That doesn't look like an actual Gatorskin tire in your hand in the first picture. Also, what the tire feels like in your hand, off the bike, means less than nothing to performance. That's a pretty obvious fallacy you've just fallen into. Like I said, when properly inflated, Gatorskins are quite supple and grippy--just as several others in this very thread and elsewhere around the world have reported.

noodle soup

More proof that you have no clue.

Reflector Guy

Yet you were so wildly incorrect in that Star Wars discussion last week... A swing and a miss.

Drew Eckhardt 

They suck 20W more than a decent tire at 20 MPH which is a 10% effort increase that can cut endurance from an hour to ten minutes, have a lousy ride, and aren't much more flat resistant when you're running over things like tire wire, glass, and thorns which won't damage your sidewalls.

shelbyfv

This wins BF Post of the Week!

shelbyfv

Careful, that thread might disappear just like the epic pump thread.

MinnMan

I see, BF has changed and you are the new sheriff. Yup. you've got 190 posts here and this is your world to sculpt as you deem proper. Seattle Forrest , with his 21,000 posts is the old guard and should retire. Get out of town before sundown, Seattle Forrest, you hear me?