10T Shimano Cassette
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
10T Shimano Cassette
I'm assembling a 10 speed Chris King hub / Shimano cassette that includes a 10T cog. The idea is to get a high enough top gear on a small wheeled (406) bike.
The donor cassette is an XT 10 speed, 11-34.
I've machined a new cassette locknut from some thick walled 4130 tubing - this locknut has a 1.2" x 24TPI external thread and a small 32mm diameter collar.
The cassette is assembled using teh bottom 9 cogs from the donor cassette. This includes 2 assemblies with 3 cogs each and the next 3 loose cogs.
The tenth cog is the 11T cog from a Shimano Capreo cassette. I need to use this part instead of the original because that cog's internal diameter is too large for the collar on my locknut. Teh collar cannot be any larger of the chain will rub when running in the 10T gear.
This 11T Capreo cog has the centre hole bored out to 30.6 so the new lockring thread can fit through. I've completed this work.
The final cog is the 10T from the Capreo. I have to machine part of the back off and then TIG weld it to the new lock ring. This will hold all 11 cogs onto the hub shell.
The final part of the puzzle is to braze the Capreo 9T cog to a large nut, then remove the teeth. Thiis will be the removal tool.
The donor cassette is an XT 10 speed, 11-34.
I've machined a new cassette locknut from some thick walled 4130 tubing - this locknut has a 1.2" x 24TPI external thread and a small 32mm diameter collar.
The cassette is assembled using teh bottom 9 cogs from the donor cassette. This includes 2 assemblies with 3 cogs each and the next 3 loose cogs.
The tenth cog is the 11T cog from a Shimano Capreo cassette. I need to use this part instead of the original because that cog's internal diameter is too large for the collar on my locknut. Teh collar cannot be any larger of the chain will rub when running in the 10T gear.
This 11T Capreo cog has the centre hole bored out to 30.6 so the new lockring thread can fit through. I've completed this work.
The final cog is the 10T from the Capreo. I have to machine part of the back off and then TIG weld it to the new lock ring. This will hold all 11 cogs onto the hub shell.
The final part of the puzzle is to braze the Capreo 9T cog to a large nut, then remove the teeth. Thiis will be the removal tool.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mountain Brook. AL
Posts: 4,002
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 136 Times
in
104 Posts
You should probably make a few extras for future replacements, depending on your likely future mileage per year on the bike.
Easier to do when you have the methods fresh in mind. A few more pix of the process showing before and after would be
interesting to those of us who fiddle in this direction. I have a mid drive Rotator pursuit with 6spd mid cassette cantilevered
off a 10mm shaft. Set up was finicky til I started making my own slightly oversized shafts and adding extra locknuts to
prevent even a few degrees of canting. The mid-drive gives me a 7:1 final drive ratio (22-144 gear) so standard rear cassettes
are fine and 60 speeds(6 cogs on mid, 10 cogs on rear cassette) gives me ample choice.
Easier to do when you have the methods fresh in mind. A few more pix of the process showing before and after would be
interesting to those of us who fiddle in this direction. I have a mid drive Rotator pursuit with 6spd mid cassette cantilevered
off a 10mm shaft. Set up was finicky til I started making my own slightly oversized shafts and adding extra locknuts to
prevent even a few degrees of canting. The mid-drive gives me a 7:1 final drive ratio (22-144 gear) so standard rear cassettes
are fine and 60 speeds(6 cogs on mid, 10 cogs on rear cassette) gives me ample choice.
#3
Full Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 489
Bikes: 2014 Bruce Gordon Rock&Road, 1995 Santana Visa Tandem, 1990 Trek 520, 2012 Surly LHT
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times
in
35 Posts
I am confused. It seems you are building an 11 speed cassette; 9 from the original XT cassette and then 11T and 10T cogs from a different cassette. If this is correct, I assume you are using an 11 speed shifter as a 10 speed wont shift an 10 speed cassette properly. Also, why not just change the chainrings (larger) to get the same effect.
#4
Newbie
Thread Starter
WRT to larger chain rings, I am already planning on a 60/61T large chain ring. With 406x32 tyres this gives approx 117 gear inches.
#5
Banned
OK, Shimano Caprio hubs use an exclusive cassette 9t > 26 t .... 9-10-11-13-15-17-20-23-26 , yes "just" 9..
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo.html
but glad you have a bank account that lets you hire custom stuff made ...
By the way Internally geared cranksets can have the chainring turning faster than the crank arms,
and so making a smaller chain ring effectively bigger.. a 2.5x overdriven 28t is effectively a 70t..
....
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo.html
but glad you have a bank account that lets you hire custom stuff made ...
By the way Internally geared cranksets can have the chainring turning faster than the crank arms,
and so making a smaller chain ring effectively bigger.. a 2.5x overdriven 28t is effectively a 70t..
....
#6
Newbie
Thread Starter
However I'm still just experimenting as this adaptation requires a fair bit of machining.
The other method I'm looking at would require a bushing to replace the original locking. This would have an external and internal thread, allowing a smaller lockring to be made and used. The tricky bit is ensuring the wall thicknesses of the bushing and the new lockring are sufficient for strength, as there is not a lot of clearance between the hub shell and the axle.This would also use the existing castellations between the 11T and 10T to carry the torque of the 10T, rather than the lockring thread.
This also requires fewer changes to the 11T and 10T cogs from the Capreo, merely an enlarging of the centre hole to fit the smaller diameter of the lockring.
I have yet to make a fitting to hold the 10T in the lather so the thickness of the backing can be reduced.
Your arrangement with the mid cassette sounds interesting. I'm trying to keep the weight down though
#7
Banned
Lower on the Prestige ladder but the remaining hybrid IGH/Cassette hub is Sturmey Archer's,
Now that Sram dumped the last remnants if their Sachs takeover, of any IGH including their Dual Drive,
and so in hub 3rd your 12.t is 4/3 higher..
.....
Now that Sram dumped the last remnants if their Sachs takeover, of any IGH including their Dual Drive,
and so in hub 3rd your 12.t is 4/3 higher..
.....
Last edited by fietsbob; 03-19-19 at 03:58 PM.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times
in
3,338 Posts
I've been using a Capreo/11-speed hybrid for a couple of years now.
my favorite cassette is 9/23, 11 speed.
Frankly, the 10T sprocket gets quite a bit more use than the 9T, and, probably more in the 11/12.
If you look at the Capreo sprockets, you'll see the indexing teeth, and a thin band. Remove the extra band and spacing between sprockets comes out pretty good.
I haven't had any issues using the thicker 9s sprockets with 11s chain, although I think the worst shift point is the interface between the Capreo and 11s cassette (9,10,11 from Capreo, 12 from donor).
More notes by PM if anybody is interested.
my favorite cassette is 9/23, 11 speed.
Frankly, the 10T sprocket gets quite a bit more use than the 9T, and, probably more in the 11/12.
If you look at the Capreo sprockets, you'll see the indexing teeth, and a thin band. Remove the extra band and spacing between sprockets comes out pretty good.
I haven't had any issues using the thicker 9s sprockets with 11s chain, although I think the worst shift point is the interface between the Capreo and 11s cassette (9,10,11 from Capreo, 12 from donor).
More notes by PM if anybody is interested.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times
in
3,338 Posts
Obviously if you want a wide range cassette, then go with the SRAM XD system.
I think Shimano is also coming out with a wide range 12s cassette with a 10T.
I think Shimano is also coming out with a wide range 12s cassette with a 10T.
#10
Newbie
Thread Starter
I'm looking to avoid avoiding additional weight and efficiency losses so have ruled out any form of internal gearing for this project. BTW I ride an Alfine 11 equipped bike for my everyday transport requirements.
#11
Newbie
Thread Starter
#12
Newbie
Thread Starter
A quick update, I had trouble getting the internally threaded bushing to work, too long to explain here ...
However I have managed to get a working solution by brazing a Capreo 10T cog to a standard Shimano steel lockring. This requires a little machining off the back of the 10T cog to get the spacing correct, and then turning down the diameter of the lockring collar after brazing, so the chain does not foul the lockring.
However I have managed to get a working solution by brazing a Capreo 10T cog to a standard Shimano steel lockring. This requires a little machining off the back of the 10T cog to get the spacing correct, and then turning down the diameter of the lockring collar after brazing, so the chain does not foul the lockring.
#13
Newbie
Thread Starter
And never complete without a photo.
#14
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Small cog
Hi fastbike,
I think i'm gonna do what u just did. Bit question regarding the 10t cog, is it tig welded to 11t snapring? So the one who hold the 10t cog is the thread between lock ring and hub driver (to put cassete)?
thanks
I think i'm gonna do what u just did. Bit question regarding the 10t cog, is it tig welded to 11t snapring? So the one who hold the 10t cog is the thread between lock ring and hub driver (to put cassete)?
thanks
#15
Newbie
Thread Starter
Hi Sahari,
I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.
The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.
The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
#16
Senior Member
So I was expecting someone having a terrible idea, but this is some extreme hackery and I can only appreciate your dedication to making this all work.
I would've probably just found some giant chainrings, or contended myself with Capreo. Any reason you didn't just use an XDR driver hub and use Sram eTap 12 speed cassettes, or a 3t 11 speed cassette (9t small cog!)?
I would've probably just found some giant chainrings, or contended myself with Capreo. Any reason you didn't just use an XDR driver hub and use Sram eTap 12 speed cassettes, or a 3t 11 speed cassette (9t small cog!)?
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times
in
41 Posts
i dont get why you would ever want a 10 tooth cog , are you peddling down hill in a race , you will never need that , and if you do use it you will be loosing so much efficiency you might as well not , i suspect you will be buying in to scam that is 1x for anything other than cyclocross , so have fun with that nonsense LOLOLOL!!!!
#18
Senior Member
i dont get why you would ever want a 10 tooth cog , are you peddling down hill in a race , you will never need that , and if you do use it you will be loosing so much efficiency you might as well not , i suspect you will be buying in to scam that is 1x for anything other than cyclocross , so have fun with that nonsense LOLOLOL!!!!
#20
Senior Member
OP mentioned he's already using like a 60+ tooth chainring. At a certain point there may be other dimensional limitations like literal ground clearance or possibly increased drag may offset the slight change of efficiency from using a smaller cog. 10t cassettes are on 12 speed drivetrains except Campagnolo, with 9sp being semi-common on 3t and e13 cassettes. It's not that big of a deal.
#21
Newbie
Thread Starter
Yeah, it's a small wheeled (travel) tandem. Which needs a good range of gears. Excessively large (> 60T) chain wheels are hard to source, and worse yet to shift.
So some shop time on the mill and lathe to adapt my Chris King Tandem hub to accept the new lockring + 10T sprocket gives a solution with the least compromise.
So some shop time on the mill and lathe to adapt my Chris King Tandem hub to accept the new lockring + 10T sprocket gives a solution with the least compromise.
#22
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hi Sahari,
I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.
The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.
The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Spoonrobot
Bicycle Mechanics
10
03-21-17 11:39 AM
Yan
Bicycle Mechanics
5
09-07-14 04:02 PM