Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

10T Shimano Cassette

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

10T Shimano Cassette

Old 03-19-19, 03:30 AM
  #1  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
10T Shimano Cassette

I'm assembling a 10 speed Chris King hub / Shimano cassette that includes a 10T cog. The idea is to get a high enough top gear on a small wheeled (406) bike.

The donor cassette is an XT 10 speed, 11-34.

I've machined a new cassette locknut from some thick walled 4130 tubing - this locknut has a 1.2" x 24TPI external thread and a small 32mm diameter collar.
The cassette is assembled using teh bottom 9 cogs from the donor cassette. This includes 2 assemblies with 3 cogs each and the next 3 loose cogs.
The tenth cog is the 11T cog from a Shimano Capreo cassette. I need to use this part instead of the original because that cog's internal diameter is too large for the collar on my locknut. Teh collar cannot be any larger of the chain will rub when running in the 10T gear.
This 11T Capreo cog has the centre hole bored out to 30.6 so the new lockring thread can fit through. I've completed this work.



The final cog is the 10T from the Capreo. I have to machine part of the back off and then TIG weld it to the new lock ring. This will hold all 11 cogs onto the hub shell.

The final part of the puzzle is to braze the Capreo 9T cog to a large nut, then remove the teeth. Thiis will be the removal tool.
fastbike is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 08:15 AM
  #2  
sch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mountain Brook. AL
Posts: 4,002
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 136 Times in 104 Posts
You should probably make a few extras for future replacements, depending on your likely future mileage per year on the bike.
Easier to do when you have the methods fresh in mind. A few more pix of the process showing before and after would be
interesting to those of us who fiddle in this direction. I have a mid drive Rotator pursuit with 6spd mid cassette cantilevered
off a 10mm shaft. Set up was finicky til I started making my own slightly oversized shafts and adding extra locknuts to
prevent even a few degrees of canting. The mid-drive gives me a 7:1 final drive ratio (22-144 gear) so standard rear cassettes
are fine and 60 speeds(6 cogs on mid, 10 cogs on rear cassette) gives me ample choice.
sch is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 11:57 AM
  #3  
Eggman84
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 489

Bikes: 2014 Bruce Gordon Rock&Road, 1995 Santana Visa Tandem, 1990 Trek 520, 2012 Surly LHT

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by fastbike
I'm assembling a 10 speed Chris King hub / Shimano cassette that includes a 10T cog. The idea is to get a high enough top gear on a small wheeled (406) bike.
l.
I am confused. It seems you are building an 11 speed cassette; 9 from the original XT cassette and then 11T and 10T cogs from a different cassette. If this is correct, I assume you are using an 11 speed shifter as a 10 speed wont shift an 10 speed cassette properly. Also, why not just change the chainrings (larger) to get the same effect.
Eggman84 is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 12:10 PM
  #4  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Eggman84
I am confused. It seems you are building an 11 speed cassette; 9 from the original XT cassette and then 11T and 10T cogs from a different cassette. If this is correct, I assume you are using an 11 speed shifter as a 10 speed wont shift an 10 speed cassette properly. .
You are not confused. This will indeed result in an 11 speed cassette. 11 speed controls are required to shift to the additional cog, and also a shiftmate will be required (ergopower levers to shimano cassette, 11speed to 10 speed spacing).
WRT to larger chain rings, I am already planning on a 60/61T large chain ring. With 406x32 tyres this gives approx 117 gear inches.
fastbike is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 12:24 PM
  #5  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
OK, Shimano Caprio hubs use an exclusive cassette 9t > 26 t .... 9-10-11-13-15-17-20-23-26 , yes "just" 9..

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo.html

but glad you have a bank account that lets you hire custom stuff made ...

By the way Internally geared cranksets can have the chainring turning faster than the crank arms,

and so making a smaller chain ring effectively bigger.. a 2.5x overdriven 28t is effectively a 70t..









....
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 12:25 PM
  #6  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by sch
You should probably make a few extras for future replacements, depending on your likely future mileage per year on the bike.
Easier to do when you have the methods fresh in mind.
Agreed, I have some extra Capreo cogs.
However I'm still just experimenting as this adaptation requires a fair bit of machining.

The other method I'm looking at would require a bushing to replace the original locking. This would have an external and internal thread, allowing a smaller lockring to be made and used. The tricky bit is ensuring the wall thicknesses of the bushing and the new lockring are sufficient for strength, as there is not a lot of clearance between the hub shell and the axle.This would also use the existing castellations between the 11T and 10T to carry the torque of the 10T, rather than the lockring thread.
This also requires fewer changes to the 11T and 10T cogs from the Capreo, merely an enlarging of the centre hole to fit the smaller diameter of the lockring.

Originally Posted by sch
A few more pix of the process showing before and after would be interesting to those of us who fiddle in this direction.
I made a jig consisting of a 2 clamping plates with a bored holes - this locates and securely holds the 11T sprocket to allow for the inner hole to be enlarged.
I have yet to make a fitting to hold the 10T in the lather so the thickness of the backing can be reduced.

Your arrangement with the mid cassette sounds interesting. I'm trying to keep the weight down though
fastbike is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 03:51 PM
  #7  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
Lower on the Prestige ladder but the remaining hybrid IGH/Cassette hub is Sturmey Archer's,
Now that Sram dumped the last remnants if their Sachs takeover, of any IGH including their Dual Drive,

and so in hub 3rd your 12.t is 4/3 higher..








.....

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-19-19 at 03:58 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 04:17 PM
  #8  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
I've been using a Capreo/11-speed hybrid for a couple of years now.

my favorite cassette is 9/23, 11 speed.

Frankly, the 10T sprocket gets quite a bit more use than the 9T, and, probably more in the 11/12.

If you look at the Capreo sprockets, you'll see the indexing teeth, and a thin band. Remove the extra band and spacing between sprockets comes out pretty good.

I haven't had any issues using the thicker 9s sprockets with 11s chain, although I think the worst shift point is the interface between the Capreo and 11s cassette (9,10,11 from Capreo, 12 from donor).

More notes by PM if anybody is interested.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 04:19 PM
  #9  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Obviously if you want a wide range cassette, then go with the SRAM XD system.

I think Shimano is also coming out with a wide range 12s cassette with a 10T.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 05:37 PM
  #10  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob
By the way Internally geared cranksets can have the chainring turning faster than the crank arms,

and so making a smaller chain ring effectively bigger.. a 2.5x overdriven 28t is effectively a 70t......
I'm looking to avoid avoiding additional weight and efficiency losses so have ruled out any form of internal gearing for this project. BTW I ride an Alfine 11 equipped bike for my everyday transport requirements.
fastbike is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 05:41 PM
  #11  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
I've been using a Capreo/11-speed hybrid for a couple of years now.
Sounds interesting. This is for a tandem project so the Capreo hub was ruled out as we are reasonably hard on our equipment.
But I would be interested in your experiences via PM
fastbike is offline  
Old 01-06-20, 01:20 AM
  #12  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
A quick update, I had trouble getting the internally threaded bushing to work, too long to explain here ...
However I have managed to get a working solution by brazing a Capreo 10T cog to a standard Shimano steel lockring. This requires a little machining off the back of the 10T cog to get the spacing correct, and then turning down the diameter of the lockring collar after brazing, so the chain does not foul the lockring.
fastbike is offline  
Old 01-06-20, 01:29 AM
  #13  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
And never complete without a photo.

fastbike is offline  
Old 08-10-20, 11:14 PM
  #14  
Sahari
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Small cog

Hi fastbike,

I think i'm gonna do what u just did. Bit question regarding the 10t cog, is it tig welded to 11t snapring? So the one who hold the 10t cog is the thread between lock ring and hub driver (to put cassete)?

thanks
Sahari is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 12:00 AM
  #15  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Hi Sahari,

I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.

The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
fastbike is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 12:18 AM
  #16  
cpach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mt Shasta, CA, USA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Too many. Giant Trance X 29, Surly Midnight Special get the most time.

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 235 Posts
So I was expecting someone having a terrible idea, but this is some extreme hackery and I can only appreciate your dedication to making this all work.
I would've probably just found some giant chainrings, or contended myself with Capreo. Any reason you didn't just use an XDR driver hub and use Sram eTap 12 speed cassettes, or a 3t 11 speed cassette (9t small cog!)?
cpach is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 12:23 AM
  #17  
Toespeas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 41 Posts
i dont get why you would ever want a 10 tooth cog , are you peddling down hill in a race , you will never need that , and if you do use it you will be loosing so much efficiency you might as well not , i suspect you will be buying in to scam that is 1x for anything other than cyclocross , so have fun with that nonsense LOLOLOL!!!!
Toespeas is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 12:46 AM
  #18  
cpach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mt Shasta, CA, USA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Too many. Giant Trance X 29, Surly Midnight Special get the most time.

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by Toespeas
i dont get why you would ever want a 10 tooth cog , are you peddling down hill in a race , you will never need that , and if you do use it you will be loosing so much efficiency you might as well not , i suspect you will be buying in to scam that is 1x for anything other than cyclocross , so have fun with that nonsense LOLOLOL!!!!
While I normally find most posts about higher gearing to be a poor idea, the OP specifically has a very small wheeled recumbent and I suspect possibly some kind of faired/aero HPV, possibly for a specific event, so yeah, super high gearing sounds important.
cpach is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 12:19 AM
  #19  
Toespeas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by cpach
While I normally find most posts about higher gearing to be a poor idea, the OP specifically has a very small wheeled recumbent and I suspect possibly some kind of faired/aero HPV, possibly for a specific event, so yeah, super high gearing sounds important.
still bigger gears are more efficient never go smaller go bigger !
Toespeas is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 01:25 AM
  #20  
cpach
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mt Shasta, CA, USA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Too many. Giant Trance X 29, Surly Midnight Special get the most time.

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by Toespeas
still bigger gears are more efficient never go smaller go bigger !
OP mentioned he's already using like a 60+ tooth chainring. At a certain point there may be other dimensional limitations like literal ground clearance or possibly increased drag may offset the slight change of efficiency from using a smaller cog. 10t cassettes are on 12 speed drivetrains except Campagnolo, with 9sp being semi-common on 3t and e13 cassettes. It's not that big of a deal.
cpach is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 11:48 PM
  #21  
fastbike
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 67

Bikes: Bikes are just like shoes, make sure you have the right ones for the right occasion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Yeah, it's a small wheeled (travel) tandem. Which needs a good range of gears. Excessively large (> 60T) chain wheels are hard to source, and worse yet to shift.
So some shop time on the mill and lathe to adapt my Chris King Tandem hub to accept the new lockring + 10T sprocket gives a solution with the least compromise.
fastbike is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 04:30 AM
  #22  
Sahari
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fastbike
Hi Sahari,

I changed tack after that last post and went back to the solution of a threaded machined bush, that is screwed into the freehub, and then a new smaller lockring that secures the 10T sprocket is screwed on.

The reason is that only minor modifications to the 11T and 10T sprockets are required (machining the centre to allow the new smaller lockring to pass through)
The previous method required machining the 10T sprocket prior to brazing on the std lockring, and then further brazing once the two parts were attached - all too fiddly.
Thanks for the answer, do u mind share some pictures? So i could understand it better
Sahari is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
deaninkl
Bicycle Mechanics
10
04-08-17 10:23 PM
hexron
Bicycle Mechanics
6
03-31-17 11:02 AM
Spoonrobot
Bicycle Mechanics
10
03-21-17 11:39 AM
Yan
Bicycle Mechanics
5
09-07-14 04:02 PM
curdog
Touring
8
07-11-12 09:30 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.