stilllearning

Hi, First time post, but I've been lurking at your site since January, and have benefited from your knowledge. I'll try to be brief:
I'm 55, and began riding in January due to knee issues from a lifetime of running. Decided to get the bike I had as a youngster (1975-76 Nishiki Olympic) as I didn't like the cost or looks of the newer bikes. As I researched and looked for the Olympic, I found bikeforums.net and saw that the Olympic was just an okay bike. However, when I saw a 1979 Fuji Royale on CL in perfect one owner, hardly rode, original condition, at a great price, your site helped me learn it was a better bike, so I bought it.
I had the bearings, chain, break cables, freewheel replaced and was loving the bike. One day I found out about the California L'eroica from a guy named Andrew who passed me on a ride (I'm in southern California), and suggested I check it out. Andrew seemed pretty involved with bike restoration and told me about a Centurion Super LeMans he was restoring. Maybe he has been on this board? Anyways, at his suggestion, I replaced the handlebars, pedals, and tape and have been enjoying the bike even more.
Though I enjoy the bike, I am thinking about moving a step up to a better, lighter, vintage steel bike, that is L'eroica eligible if I decide to participate. So I was wondering what models would be an appropriate next move up without breaking the bank? My Royale is a 12 speed with a freewheel of 14 - 30. I am considering a 1983 Centurion Elite RS that has a freewheel of 13 - 28. Is that something I could adjust to easily? My bike is comfortable on my 30 mile rides, but I want to get to 50 miles, and eventually do a century. So comfort on longer rides is also a consideration. Additionally, I like to ride hills and can handle them with the Royale. I don't want to end up with a faster, lighter bike, but unable to climb because I can't handle the gears.
Or, should I keep the Royale and just change the wheels to lighten things up? Currently it has Ukai alloy 27" rims with Kenda K36 gum walls. Would changing the wheels make that much of a weight difference? If so, can you recommend what I should get? With a tail light, odometer, and kickstand the bikes weighs 27.2 pounds.
This wasn't very short - sorry! All opinions will be greatly appreciated!

oddjob2

1. Fit comes first.
2. Touring, sport, or racing frame type.
3. You said steel. So look for frames with what I'd call more precious metal. Examples include Reynold 531 or 501, Columbus SL, SLP, or Tenax (Schwinn Columbus), Tange Champion 1 or 2, Miyata triple splined, etc. TruTemper and Ishiwata also have some desirable tubesets.
4. Gearing. Someone more knowledgable than I am can fill in the blanks about those choices.

no1mad 

Didn't see where the OP was asking for a valuation, so..

Welcome to Classic & Vintage from C & V Appraisals .

KenNC

I suspect you could easily adjust to a 13-28 freewheel, and perhaps 13-24, as you mention you are a long-time runner. And freewheels switch easily and new replacements are widely available and inexpensive anyway. I agree with above that fit comes first. After that, as to not breaking the bank, if you stay away from the highly collectable brands, there are many, many vintage brands that are just as nice riders. Also, for vintage bikes, if you go for one with Suntour derailleurs, rather than more collectible European derailleurs, you may wind up with something that shifts better and is just as vintage! An example is my 1970s Motobecane Grand Touring (from a year they made it with Vitus 172 main frame tubes, not 1020 tubes). As to comfort, I'd add a Brooks leather saddle to your current bike, break that in, and then move it to a new bike if you like it. As to the weight of your existing bike, I'd discard the kick-stand, and replace the Kendas with Paselas. Sounds like you are getting good advice from your riding friend so apologies for duplication. FYI at age 59 my morning routine is a 10 mile ride followed by a 1 mile jog, which I am hoping to do more regularly as I transition into a hopefully less stress job. I use a modern bike with my ride group on the weekends, but a vintage bike for my individual exercise is more fun!

oddjob2

I have no idea what height you are, but some worthy bikes

Centurion Ironman great deal at $160, but may be a 1989, too new?
Centurion Ironman 62cm Road Bike Shimano600

Centurion Ironman, for $300, may be a 1987
Centurion Ironman 62cm Road Bike Shimano600

Peugeot PX10 from the 1970s for $400
Rare Vintage Peugeot PX10 PX-10 58 cm

Touring 1984ish Raleigh Aleyska for $200 - great hill climbing gearing
Vintage Raleigh road bike "OBO"

Bargain Raleigh International
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...791462053.html

bikemig 

Most of the folks doing the eroica seem to be riding what were higher end bikes back in the day. @oddjob2's list is a good starting place.

Before you pick out a bike, you should be thinking about some relevant factors or criteria:

(1) Fit is the most important. Doesn't matter what the bike is; if it doesn't fit, you don't want it.

(2) Gearing matters given the ride you want to do. Will a double with a wide ranging freewheel work for you and the ride? If so, any older bike can be retrofitted with a wider freewheel. Parts are readily available for older bikes. It is also possible to install a crank with smaller rings which will give you better gearing for climbing.

(3) Tire clearance matters. As a general rule, if you're talking about a racing bike with short reach brakes, the largest tire you can run will be a 25c. There is a fair amount of unpaved roads on this so a fatter tire (28-32c) is probably advisable. Just look for a road bike that can take a fatter tire.

bikemig 

There is an informal vintage class at the dairyland dare in Wisconsin that a number of posters on this list do every year. The ride is on paved roads with a lot of climbing. The metric century this year had around 6800 ft of climbing.

The bike I'm building--which would be eroica legal as well--can take 28c tires and I'll run a triple to climb those hills.

pastorbobnlnh 

For now, stick with what you have. Learn to do your own modifications. You could convert the crankset to a triple and would then have the low gears needed for climbing. Before switching the wheels, just try the tires. I'm guessing the Kendas are the old fashioned heavy duty and heavy gum walls. Panaracer TG Passela tires are light weight and durable. Just my two cents.

P.S. Welcome to C&V!

John E

Once again our resident man of the cloth speaks the truth.

bikemig 

How long have you been preaching against N + 1?

I don't think the flock is listening,

stilllearning

Thank you for the advice! Everyone has given me some good info. to consider. Thank you also for the CL links. I have been considering a Centurion Ironman as it seems they are fairly common in my area. Also going to check out an Elite RS. Or, maybe try the Paselas on my Royale... I need to decide what to do. Thanks again for giving me some ideas on which way to go!

pastorbobnlnh 

Hahaha! I just don't want our new BF-C&Ver to be sucked down the same hole which has swallowed me! Or at least not immediately!

I can't even listen to my own advise.

However, recently I've come into some inheritance from my Dad who died in August. I keep entertaining the thought that to "gift" myself from part of Dad's estate would be appropriate. After all two of my best Christmas gifts I ever remember were the tricycle from when I was 4 ('62) and the Sears 26" tire single speed from when I was 7 ('65).

Over the past several weeks I've looked at fat bikes, 11 speed electronic shifting road bikes, and high end vintage road framesets, and nearly pulled the trigger at least a half dozen times. What keeps stopping me? All those bikes sitting in the basement which rarely or never are ridden in the past few years. It's seriously time for me to scale back. But it is so hard to decide which ones to let go.

@stilllearning, be patient and consider how you will use a new bike. My 2 cents worth of advice is to make certain it has a different purpose from your Fuji. For instance, I have two bikes set up for touring, one steel and one aluminum. One is plenty!

The Golden Boy 

I think getting nicer tires instead of the $10 Kendas will do you a whole world of good.

IMO- if your bike will take 27 x 1 1/4- go with those, the Pasela 27 x 1 1/4 is a great all around tire.

davester

Regarding the gearing, you don't say what your chainring size is on your current bike so it's not possible to tell you how much the gearing may change moving to the Centurion. However, the Centurion Elite is a racing model so will probably have a 52-42 front with the 13-28 rear. That gives you a 40" low gear. This is going to be really tough on a route like L'Eroica, which has some epic (and unpaved) hills. I assure you that you will be walking on those hills with this setup, though you will have good company. I'm pretty sure that the Elite has a long cage Suntour rear derailleur so getting lower gearing should be fairly easy. For about $70 you could buy an IRD 13-32 freewheel and new chain. This would get you a low gear of 35" (i.e. 14% lower) which would get you out of walking most, but perhaps not all, hills. Alternatively you could change out the crankset for a compact (Holdsworth is about $90) 48-34 which would get you a 32.5" low gear though a lower top gear. You could do both and end up with a 28" low which would make climbing those hills a breeze, relatively speaking.

Definitely wider tires in the 28 to 32 mm range are best for Eroica (the wider the better). However, some experimentation is needed to determine what will fit in your frame. I run the Compass or Soma Vitesse tires and they are perfect, though a bit pricey. I don't think you're going to improve much by changing out wheels since you already have alloy rims. You seem to be searching for lightness, but IMHO a few extra pounds does not make much of a difference unless you are racing or have never-ending steep hills.

stilllearning

Thanks Davester! You are correct that I'm trying to lose a few pounds. Good point on the front gears as I hadn't thought of that. I compared my Royale to the Elite and they are both 52-42.
And I have also read that a couple of pounds isn't that big of a deal. My Royale looks like it just came from the store, is comfortable, and I enjoy riding it. Perhaps I should just be content with what I have. However, I was thinking the Elite RS seemed like a suitable step up as I get more involved in biking. I guess the grass is always greener! Since I can't afford multiple bikes, I may just need to wait to find a good vintage Japanese steel with a triple crank. I have a lot to decide. Now I see how easy it is to end up with multiple bikes - there are so many great looking ones out there. Worse case, I keep what I have, switch the tires, and keep enjoying my bike. Thanks, again!

CliffordK

I'm not sure about the Eroica California, but I've heard the the Eroica Italy will accept just about any steel frame, of new or old manufacture.

There are a few basic guidelines such as pedals and brake cable routing out of the tops of the brake levers.

So, it is quite possible you could modify your Fuji to be Eroica compliant.

Of, of course, there are literally millions of old bikes out there that would be acceptable, from old Schwinns to sleek European racing bikes.

RobbieTunes

The Elite RS is a great choice, pretty much L'Eroica ready.

crank_addict

Welcome stilllearning (you're in good company )

The '79 Royale reminds me when I first purchased an S12-S ltd back then. Great memories of it as a 40 mile day commuter, weekend warrior to tour camping adventure rig. Gear inch wasn't even in my vocabulary either, it was all about getting on that shining bike and pedal away!

Older bikes are a hoot, and I still enjoy getting on a mid grade steel bike. But please, for that bike's sake trash that kickstand. Weight is obvious but more important to know, they damage the frame / chainstay. Also consider if it falls over, likely causes other damage. Much better to lean the bike on something or lay it flat, non drive side.

The Royale is certainly capable, and has excellent SunTour (Fuji label) derailleurs. Key is having comfy tires. Back then narrow tires were the rage for speed but lots has changed since then. Unfortunately the choice for decent 27" rubber is not much but the Pasela's seem to have catered to many. My game is hunting for vintage NOS 27 x 1 1/4 rubber on ebay and for near the same cost. Slim pickings but patience pays. For me, Avocet rank high and even the occasional score of Matrix Iso Tech 3K. For that bike I wouldn't spend much in going with a 700c swap, unless it was super cheap to near giveaway and without the need to do a brakes swap (if needed for issue of brake arm reach).

If you plan to keep it but want on an all capable rider, consider the following. I also realize that you've already changed the freewheel, but....

One thing you could do and make a climbing goat plus have big winding downhill gearing is swap to a 7 speed 13 to 34 Shimano Megarange freewheel. Usually found new for $15 or less. The hub's inside axle and spacer will need to be a slightly longer. Very easy swap but if uncomfortable doing it and you don't have the proper tools, have a bike shop do it. The threaded axle is usually just a few dollars or something to trade out from their junk bin. (Re-use your bearing cones.)

We're not done yet.... acquire a 32t or so small chain ring. You'd have to provide what crank that bike has and then either measure or look up the BCD in Sutherlands book. Chain will need to be lengthened. Lastly, not sure what rear SunTour derailleur it has, may or may not be able to handle the changed out gearing and chain wrap. I would at least test it, even if over the book specifications. But, should you need a 'long' cage type derailleur, get an older Suntour Cyclone and simply swap. Admit I'm sad to see those derailleurs getting out of hand pricey but ask around and you might find a donor.

It is kind of funny but its surprising on how well and capable a 26 - 27 lbs steel bike can be with just a few creative changes.

stilllearning

Wow, it's been almost 2 years since I started this post, and a lot has changed, but I am still learning! I now have an 85/86 Centurion Ironman that I love. To help with hills, I replaced the 42 chainring with a 38. I wanted to put a 36 or 34, but that is the smallest that would fit the Biopace. I changed it from a 6 speed to a 7 speed with a Shimano 14-28 freewheel. I also purchased a Suntour V-GT Luxe derailleur since I was initially thinking of going with the Shimano 14-34 megarange, but decided to wait. Now, I am thinking that perhaps I should have gone with the Megarange.
I have been riding around Palos Verdes Peninsula in southern California, and just did Glendora Mountain Road/Glendora Ridge Road to Mt. Baldy village (I did not go on up to the ski lift). Palos Verdes I can handle okay, but the Mt. Baldy ride was pushing my limits.
I have reread everyone's responses, and I am going to list my options in the order that I think are the easiest and least expensive. But, easiest and least expensive do not always equal the best choice. I would like to know if I am in the ballpark of what you more knowledgeable people would do. However, I will be using my LBS for the labor and perhaps parts. They are great, and have been very helpful, so I don't mind paying a little more for some parts if necessary.
1. Put on a 7 speed Shimano 14-34 Megarange and use the Suntour V-GT Luxe derailleur I already own.
2. Put on 7 speed Suntour, IRD, or SunRace 13-32 - if I can find one that's not too expensive.
3. Change crankset (130 BCD) to a compact 50/36 or 50/34, keep freewheel 14-28. I have no idea what brand other than Shimano. Any recommendations?
4. Change to a compact crankset and also put in a 14-34 or 13-32 freewheel.
5. Change crankset to a triple, keep 14-28 freewheel.

I'm leaning toward #2 because I really don't like the way the Megarange looks, but I haven't seen any Suntours under $150. I don't mind spending a lot on a new crankset, but am hesitant to do so for a freewheel. That may not make sense, so any advice will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Brian

ramzilla

The Megarange 14-34 cog set is really for mountainbikes. I squeezed one onto an old Nishiki International. But, the Nishiki's Suntour RD wouldn't climb all the way up to the biggest cog. To make it work I used a Shimano Deore M591 RD and a KMC 8.93 chain. I was so happy with the M591 RD that I bought a few more for some other bikes. The 8 & 9 speed stuff works absolutely fine with 7 speed cogs. And, it's cheap now that the 10 & 11 speed version bicycling has taken hold.

stilllearning

Thanks, Ramzilla! I've done some more research - probably should have finished that before posting my latest question as there is a wealth of info. on this forum. I'm leaning towards going with a compact crank as that looks like it will give me more lower gear options. I've been checking prices and will be going in tomorrow to my lbs to see what they will charge. If it's too much, I'll just keep looking for a 13-30 freewheel. Thanks, again! Brian