CliffordK

Post #17 shows some of the loads on my cargo trailer

Everything I carry on the heavy cargo trailer a bit heavy or awkward. Like I said, some changes are in the wind. But, the Burly ad says it is limited to 100 lbs.

I'm pretty sure the milling head pictured above that was actually carried in a vintage Burley exceeded the 100 lb weight limit. The milling table would have crushed the trailer.

Khb

I suspect that the hitch is the weakest link. But Burley does seem to be very conservative in their limits, I'm morally certain heavier than 100lbs works OK ;> . But I bow to your greater cargo requirements!

yves845

Just a return of experience :
I have my Riese & Muller E cargo since about 6 month now.
It work just as expected : I use it 3 about times a week, to go to the supermarket and the "farmer market".
I carry regularly between 20 and 40 kg with a 700 meter elevation on 20 km to go back home. It replaced my car for this sort of trip.
The 1000 Wh batteries provides conservatively about 60 to 70 km of autonomy at 20 km/h, the electric assistance makes it almost as easy to use as a car.
It usable for longer distances, I made twice a 150 km trip, at 15 km/h : it takes a day though...

The bakfiets design makes it easier to park than a trike.
Since I'm the only one around using such a strange device, it attracts a lot of curiosity and interest, untill people ask for the price ...

tandempower

This seems like the ultimate convergence between bike and motor-car technology to me. It holds a lot of potential for making the automotive culture more sustainable, if motorists everywhere would be willing to give up traditional automobiles for such relatively small, motorized cargo bikes.

For years I have looked at small motorized vehicles widely used in Asia, such as motor-rickshaws and covered cargo motorcycle pickups and wondered why they are utterly eschewed in, say, the US. Idk if it's because US pickup truck makers dominate markets and culture and the public worships size/power where utility motor-vehicles are concerned; and if so whether the bias is due to systematic marketing of certain business interests or because of an organic preference that arises from independent cultural preferences. I don't think culture is really independent, however, especially in an economy as heavily advertising/marketing-driven, so I'm going to guess that if business really wanted to successfully market small motorized utility vehicles, the people/culture would accept them.

Unfortunately, my concern with motorized vehicles is that the human tendency toward laziness and impatience always tempts people into sacrificing exercise for speed, protection against the elements, etc. Many will argue this is good and natural, but I think humans shoot themselves in the foot with technological reliance/addiction in many cases. Ideally, people would widely realize that pedaling and getting exercise is the ideal and only deviate from that ideal in instances where a motor was absolutely necessary, and even then restrict themselves to the smallest/lightest vehicle possible for the sake of minimizing pavement-demand, but unfortunately most people just aren't that committed to environmental sustainability. Maybe in the future that will change, though.

Walter S

tandempower

I didn't say anything about it becoming reality vs. fantasy. In fact, I explained why there are probably cultural barriers that will block it from becoming reality. In terms of what would be rational in a sane world where people and businesses put environment and sustainability over other concerns, it would be a logical convergence between the motorized automotive culture and the cargo bike culture. That doesn't mean other kinds of cars and bicycles, etc. wouldn't continue to exist, but that many if not most cargo needs that were too difficult by means of pedal-powered cargo bike would be accomplished by motorized cargo bike instead of people resorting to a big pickup trucks. Pickup trucks would still be needed for loads too heavy and/or large for a motorized cargo bike.

It really just comes down to having more tools available so you can be more accurate in choosing the right tool that fits the job. Cars and pickup trucks are often overkill for a given job. How many times have you seen tractor trailer semis with one or two palettes strapped onto their huge flatbeds? That is just not an efficient use of such a large powerful vehicle. It would make more sense to reduce stress on pavement and reduce lane-demand by pairing vehicles with loads more accurately and minimizing unnecessary/wasted road use.

350htrr

Really.? I think he did a great job in explaining why things would/could be "better" in his post... IF people changed then MAYBE that kind of transportation could prevail. and... He also said why he thought it wouldn't happen and why things are the way they are In His Opinion...

I-Like-To-Bike

Ya mean like the existence of a "cargo bike culture"?

350htrr

There now are actually some feasible alternatives to basic personal transportation other than the ICE automobile and people would not "suffer" doing it that way, and some are changing... The Twike electric pedal car , and organic transit E-Bike, the Elf. https://www.velometro.com/

EDIT; I can't seem to paste a direct link for some reason... OK figured it out.. https://organictransit.com/ , https://www.electricbike.com/the-twike-challenge/

jon c. 

There have been retirement communities for the last 40 years where many folks replace cars with electric golf carts. But the infrastructure making such transport viable isn't readily scalable to the broader community.

350htrr

https://www.electricbike.com/the-twike-challenge/ , The Twike was not designed to replace the bicycle, it was designed to replace the car, that is the reason I am for it. It can actually do up to 52MPH, go 45 miles + what ever pedal power and re-gen is achieved at 30MPH … Can be re-charged anywhere in 2 Hrs and do another 45Miles+ with 2 people and their stuff....

jon c. 

The pedaling component does seem all but superfluous. And the price is insane. But other than that it looks pretty cool.

350htrr

Well it is only about 10% for the average pedaling power input into the battery if you don't want to raise too much of a sweat, but lets say another 10% from re-gen and now the range is extended to 54 miles from 45 miles... Anyways it shared a 1st place finish with a Tesla...

jon c. 

I know someone building an electric truck for the Asian market which has no pedals, but has actual cargo capacity and is only a third the price.

350htrr

Yea, the price IS up there... $16,000 to $20,000, But this Twike (E/pedal car), is actually the first one (that I have seen) that does everything a car does and therefore can allow the person who owns it to be completely "car free", and yet still have a "car" as I see it anyways, the Elf by Organic transit almost makes it, and IS affordable... Like the Tesla to E-Cars, the first thing out, that actually works well, IS going to be expensive… Now, a few years later, there is/are many others (E-cars) that come close and are actually "affordable" for the average person...

I-Like-To-Bike

Are you referring to the e-bike of the OP, Riese & Müller Load Touring? It appears your idea of "everything a car does" or is used for is rather peculiarand will be quite a difficult sell as a car replacement to all but a minuscule slice of the population at any price, let alone at $7,000+

Specs:
Estimated Max Range:
50 miles (80 km)

Top Speed:
28 mph (45 kph)

Adult Passenger Seating: 0

Weather Protection for Driver and Baggage/Cargo: 0

Safety protection in traffic incidents: quite limited vis-à-vis cars.

350htrr

No, I was referring to the Twike, I edited my post but my ninja edit wasn't fast enough it seems. and... Yes for $7,000 I would rather get an Elf as a car replacement...

3alarmer 

...Peugeot just rolled out their new E-bike lineup.

350htrr

Autonomy;... Cargo bikes or regular bikes, E-Assisted or not, that seems to be the topic here... Basically doing, going on with a normal way of life without a car/vehicle/LCF...

Solutions... Well now it seems to depend on what you are willing to do without...

IMO... E-Bikes, and the like, right up to the $20,000 Twike will work, Depending on your situation, BUT, it also seems to mainly depending on your needs....and.... Mainly depending on how deep your pocket is. $$$... Society is set up to function a certain way, and when you start to buck the system, things happen. Like employment opportunities shrink, like you start to seem like a... "nut job" for the lack of a better description. (unless you have the $$$ and then you would be considered a leader in alternative transport for the personal transport crowd… I suspect it will stay that way until the oil ,or the air, or the temp, or the water/ocean levels rise to the point wher billions are homeless, and the world changes to the point where it doesn't matter, whether you "think" it is true or not. It is just the way it has become. Deal with it, you people of the future generation...

Happy Feet

Not really. The biggest changè is simply to stop worrying how one appears to other people. Once that happens many choices can be quite workable.

in this case, the need to occasionally shop could have made the OP decide they couldn't go car free but instead they sought an alternative solution and having made the "leap of faith" found it works and they get lots of positive interest from others.

I chose several years ago to once again bike commute to work. I could have worried it would look like I was poor or had a DUI but that stuff doesn't worry me. As a result I get good feedback all the time from others and even created a niche position spearheading a therapeutic cycling program for seniors. Without being a courier (which I've also done) I earn pretty good money riding a bike at work!

I think a lot of people yearn to live a more connected simple life but feel circumstance prevents it and appreciate others who manage to do so.

350htrr

and.. You chose to do what you wanted, and did not care about the consequences,, but most people do care, thus they chose to go with the status quo…*

Happy Feet

I guess my comment was in response to the idea that appearing like a nut job was a valid concern. To me it is a bogeyman that disappears as soon as one decides to move forward.

one thing that helps when worrying about that is to ask very specifically "who" those people are that will think poorly of your plans? Try to identify them as individuals. Usually one can't.

yves845

This is the OP :
Originally, a year ago, when we moved, I bought a second hand Fiat Panda 4x4 for 4000 euros, it was my first car since about 20 years. When living in big cities in Europe (paris, Brussels, Marseille) you have access to quite decent mass transit systems and you can rent a car easily when you need one. AND you can bike to work very easily, I never had problems to put my bike IN my office. Where I live now, one need to call for a taxi a few days in advance and there's no convenient trains, I mean High speed trains, it takes hours to travel a few hundred km.
Whenever I need to go to places under 20 km I use the bike, when it's more than that, I rent a car. Alas, the electronic (italian) parts of the poor Panda went nuts, we are strictly car free since four month. I need to rely on the good will of relatives for the last km when I travel by train, the Brompton does not permit to ride 50 km fast enough specially when loaded to be usable.

By the way there are huge incentives to buy electric cars here in france, it's simply a consequence of an impressive lobbying by EDF (electricite de france) to justify their insane investments in nuclear pressurised water plants : in Flamanville, Hinckley Point and Oikiluoto, none of which are operational, there are huge problems to meet security standards specially since Fukushima and prices are monstrously increasing every year. about 50 % of EDF shares are owned by the french government and nuclear power is considered as a strategic investment here.

As for appearance : even if I look like a hobo, today I can find a job really without a problem, there's such a shortage for medical doctors here... My dad, who passed away this summer was a very highly skilled surgeon. He also went to art painting studios, once he was offered a sandwich is the metro in Paris : because of his look, with old clothes tainted with paint and is 'trolley' to carry his painting ustensils he kindly refused ...
We have a saying here : "l'habit ne fait pas le moine" (it's not the clothing making the monk (???)
*

I-Like-To-Bike

How much did it cost to take home? Does it meet your expectations of autonomy? I assume not, since you went out and bought a car in addition.

yves845

To take it home it was really easy NOTHING to pay :
1) find a job near the dealer, nearby Valence, France.
2) take time to explore wineries around : Hermitage, St Joseph, Cornas ... Outstanding wines when they are well made, by small producers, and certainly not in the cooperatives !
3 take time to go for a trek in the Vercors area, see the very last wild animals in Europe in places where there's still snow , taste "Clairette de Die", not my style of wine !
Buy a bunch of "Ravioles à la Dioise" : extraordinary sorts of raviolis, showing that world cuisine existed when Marco Polo came back from Asia (wheatnooddles stuffed with comté cheese and herbs or local mushrooms... for instance morels )
4) destroy my beloved Fiat Panda 4x4 at a roundabout, not my fault, but the Izusu behind me.
5) pedal 160 km to go home from Valence with the Riese and Muller, sparing VERY conservatively the batteries to drive those last 10%++ climbs at the end of the trip.

If you really want to know everything, later on I asked a local garage to put a coupling ball on the Panda in June, to be able to tow heating wood to our house. So since four month we are strictly car less. Anxiously waiting for the Panda to be able to make a few km