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An e-bike is going to happen eventually

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An e-bike is going to happen eventually

Old 07-09-19, 03:32 PM
  #201  
radroad
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Well said, momsonherbike. I would add that the age range and diversity of e-bike riders is pretty remarkable. The vast majority of e-bike riders are under 50, at least locally (I certainly can't generalize to the entire ridership base). They come from all walks of life: commuters, food delivery, couriers, tourists out on rentals, locals out for a fun ride, 50+ riders, people in their 20's, 30's, 40's, it really does run the gamut.

You can commute by bicycle to school or work and not arrive drenched in sweat. Food delivery drivers can make a good living with their e-bikes, and not feel totally hammered at the end of a day. People with disabilities can get back on their bikes. For people fortunate enough not to have to deal with serious injuries, it will raise your spirits in a way that you had not thought possible.

As a very conservative estimate, I'd say approximately 30% of all bike riders I see are on e-bikes. On certain days and times, it's probably 50% or higher. E-bikes put the fun back in functionality! But seriously, it's impossible to ride an e-bike without smiling. It is pure joy.

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Old 07-10-19, 07:36 AM
  #202  
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I normally lurk on this area, but I must say some of you had me rolling!!! It’s either a Monty Python skit gone awry or ****tt and Costello... ( right minded people and who’s on first) LOL it won’t let me use the first name of an old comedy duo!! 😂😂 you’ll have to fill in the blanks!

Who cares as long as someone gets out side and at least somewhat mobile? Probably more than they would have been and maybe, just maybe social?? (I’m an engineer, I’m familiar with anti social people)

Shuffle board anyone?? GIN!! Get off my lawn!! 😆

On the news there have been stories about both a man and a woman being carried around in backpacks! Ppphhhtt cheaters! They have arms.... and electric wheel chairs! The audacity of them.
(If you can’t pick up the sarcasm...)

Oh and Hi, my name is Tony I’m 57 have a grey(white) mustache very much thinning hair on top. I have to go back to work now and do engineery stuff then go home and do another 100 sandbag because of high water... I guess I won’t use the wheelbarrow. That would be an unfair advantage🙄🤣🤣🤣🤣

if this is to sarcastic just tell me or mods delete it... some have waaaay to thin of skin.

currently me:road and Mtn
Wife: mtn and Electra 7d if she wants an e assist to keep her outside..... she gets one, not a thought or question in my mind

Cheers,
Tony

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Old 07-10-19, 02:09 PM
  #203  
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I can guarantee that the bikeforums gerontocracy would be in an uproar if we criticized any of their standard practices: such as hoarding one or two dozen bikes at a time collecting dust in their garages, spending 20 or 30 or 40 hours a week scouring craigslist for bikes to flip, spending $300 on "Italian" jerseys made in China, posting 400 or 500x on dry vs wet lube, etc.

There's no introspection or insight on priorities or how to assess what's of actual importance. E-bikes make a REAL WORLD difference to commuters, people who work on their bikes, and especially to people who face mobility problems and can't ride a standard bicycle without great difficulty.

E-bikes are a solution to practical real world problems. Not to mention, e-bikes will save the bicycling industry: take a look at sales figures. The goofs who have been trolling this forum have completely lost any perspective on the importance of bicycles: they are toys. They are for fun and recreation. For an extremely tiny portion of even the bicycling population in the first world, they serve as basic transportation or as a means to make money. In those instances, e-bikes are far superior.

As much as I enjoy riding my standard bicycles, e-bikes are a far more enjoyable experience. I have no financial stake in any of this, just tellin it like it is
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Old 07-11-19, 06:13 AM
  #204  
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All this would be great fodder for the e-bike forum.

Sadly it continually floats to the top of another forum..why..well..if it were on the e-bike forum it would have a brief lifespan..and folks would miss the chance to bicker about nonsense. It's so much more fun to plop it where it doesn't belong and then watch the fur fly..

..waste of time.
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Old 07-11-19, 10:28 AM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by fishboat
..and folks would miss the chance to bicker about nonsense.

..waste of time.
10 pages of comments from dozens of 50+ forum members debating the merits of the pedal assist e-bike is enough to disprove your opinion, but keep complaining, it will just increase the life of the thread further ;-)

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Old 07-13-19, 12:41 PM
  #206  
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My wife and I were riding a MUP in Indiana on 7/12. It has policemen which ride it, using e-bikes. Humidity wasn't too bad, but toward the end of the ride it was beginning to get a bit on the hot side. Wouldn't have minded having one of their e-bikes to finish up the ride. But then, I don't need one, finished the ride in good shape. I'd probably take advantage of the motor when getting tired instead of "grinding it out" and building up my endurance. Gotta admit-they are tempting, but they might take away part of the reason I ride.
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Old 07-13-19, 04:10 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by linberl
I often wonder if people acted the same when bikes went from single speed to geared....since gears artificially multiply your effort, too.
No they don't. With geared bikes you have to sacrifice speed/distance for the ease-of-effort. You don't get energy for free. Any no-motor geared-bike is 100% human powered --> no matter what the gears.

Motorized-eBikes add energy that comes from the Electrical Power Grid. They ARE NOT 100% human powered, but are boosted 300% by electricity.

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Old 07-13-19, 05:26 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by BigAura
No they don't. With geared bikes you have to sacrifice speed/distance for the ease-of-effort. You don't get energy for free. Any no-motor geared-bike is 100% human powered --> no matter what the gears.

Motorized-eBikes add energy that comes from the Electrical Power Grid. They ARE NOT 100% human powered, but are boosted 300% by electricity.
Frankly I don't think people assessed it all that much, people just don't like change. But in any case - even if the motor IS boosting human effort (to varying degrees, not 300%) so what? I don't care if the elderly couple that passed me today were riding e-bikes, why would I? They were not out in their car, that's all I care about. If some people choose to use motors - for assist - as long as they ride responsibly and don't act like idiots (which happens plenty with regular bikes too) it's not a BFD.
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Old 07-13-19, 05:52 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by linberl
Frankly I don't think people assessed it all that much, people just don't like change. But in any case - even if the motor IS boosting human effort (to varying degrees, not 300%) so what? I don't care if the elderly couple that passed me today were riding e-bikes, why would I? They were not out in their car, that's all I care about. If some people choose to use motors - for assist - as long as they ride responsibly and don't act like idiots (which happens plenty with regular bikes too) it's not a BFD.
Most recreational non-motorized riders crank 150 watts. Legal eBikes motors can produce up to 750watts (ONE HORSEPOWER). So potentially a lot more than 300%.

eBikes aren't in the same power-class as 55-horsepower Harley motorcycles but they are in same category. They are motor vehicles. sad, sad, sad that they have been erroneously categorized as bicycles.
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Old 07-13-19, 06:08 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by BigAura
Most recreational non-motorized riders crank 150 watts. Legal eBikes motors can produce up to 750watts (ONE HORSEPOWER). So potentially a lot more than 300%.

eBikes aren't in the same power-class as 55-horsepower Harley motorcycles but they are in same category. They are motor vehicles. sad, sad, sad that they have been erroneously categorized as bicycles.
My ebike motor can put out 750w, too. But I've only gone over 15mph one time, when I first got it to try it out. Cars can go 120+mph so should we ban them because some people might use them irresponsibly? We do the logical thing, we set speed limits and we ticket people who exceed them. Since cities can set their own laws regarding ebikes, they can set limits of 15mph or 20mph on anything but city streets. The proper response is enforcement for the subset of violators, not banning them from use. And, again, WHY do you care if someone is going 24mph human powered (like my adult son) or motor powered? The speed is the same. If it keeps people from driving a car, it's a win.

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Old 07-13-19, 06:46 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by linberl
My ebike motor can put out 750w, too. But I've only gone over 15mph one time, when I first got it to try it out. Cars can go 120+mph so should we ban them because some people might use them irresponsibly? We do the logical thing, we set speed limits and we ticket people who exceed them. Since cities can set their own laws regarding ebikes, they can set limits of 15mph or 20mph on anything but city streets. The proper response is enforcement for the subset of violators, not banning them from use. And, again, WHY do you care if someone is going 24mph human powered (like my adult son) or motor powered? The speed is the same. If it keeps people from driving a car, it's a win.
If your point is eBikes should replace cars then you're in the wrong place. We ARE bicycle riders. What you're promoting is giving up human-powered bicycles and going to a MOTORIZED vehicle. The world is full of motorized vehicles and infrastructure built for those vehicles. That's where this electric motor bikes should be on the motor-vehicle roads. This phony idea that they are bicycles is trashing what little bicycle infrastructure there is. They are used on bike paths and backcountry as if they are bicycles, but they are not. These motorized monstrosities need to be recategorozed as motor vehicles.

BTW: I all for electric motor-bikes being used INSTEAD of cars as long as they ride on motor-vehicle roads. Road based bike lanes in cities are fine,.MUPs, bike paths, and bike trails should remain non-motorized vehicles ONLY.

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Old 07-13-19, 07:00 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by BigAura
If your point is eBikes should replace cars then you're in the wrong place. We ARE bicycle riders. What you're promoting is giving up human-powered bicycles and going to a MOTORIZED vehicle. The world is full of motorized vehicles and infrastructure built for those vehicles. That's where this electric motor bikes should be on the motor-vehicle roads. This phony idea that they are bicycles is trashing what little bicycle infrastructure there is. They are used on bike paths and backcountry as if they are bicycles, but they are not. These motorized monstrosities need to be recategorozed as motor vehicles.

BTW: I all for electric motor-bikes being used INSTEAD of cars as long as they ride on motor-vehicle roads. Road based bike lanes in cities are fine,.MUPs, bike paths, and bike trails should remain non-motorized vehicles ONLY.
I see that you "have modified" your point of view a bit, over the last few years... and , I am actually IN agreement with the 750 watt motorised bicycles with throttle allowed on bicycle pathways is wrong, BUT, one needs to start somewhere other than a TOTAL ban on any kind of assistance... Mechanical or motorised... UP to a certain level. A geared bicycle, or a motorised bicycle... JMO...
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Old 07-13-19, 07:31 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by BigAura
If your point is eBikes should replace cars then you're in the wrong place. We ARE bicycle riders. What you're promoting is giving up human-powered bicycles and going to a MOTORIZED vehicle. The world is full of motorized vehicles and infrastructure built for those vehicles. That's where this electric motor bikes should be on the motor-vehicle roads. This phony idea that they are bicycles is trashing what little bicycle infrastructure there is. They are used on bike paths and backcountry as if they are bicycles, but they are not. These motorized monstrosities need to be recategorozed as motor vehicles. Very sad

BTW: I all for electric motor-bikes being used INSTEAD of cars as long as they ride on motor-vehicle roads. Road based bike lanes in cities are fine,.MUPs, bike paths, and bike trails should remain non-motorized vehicles ONLY.
Speed is speed. If a human can go 24mph unassisted (my son does it all the time) then why does it matter if an e-bike can go 15 or 20mph assisted? It isn't whether it has a motor or not that is the issue (except maybe it you are just prejudiced against assistive devices), it is the speed. There is absolutely no difference between me on my little folding bike with my friction drive motor going 15mph and my son on his hybrid riding next to me sans motor. We are going at the same speed (except he gets tired of riding with me because I slow him down), using the same infrastructure, causing the same wear. Not all ebikes are heavy (my bike with motor system is 23.5lbs) but even if they do weigh more, then perhaps we'd have to ban heavy riders on regular bikes too if we claim weight increases damage to infrastructure. All I get from your comments is "you don't like ebikes" and if that's the case, don't buy one! Just like folks who don't believe in gay marriage should simply not get gay-married! In other words, aside from your sensibilities, I fail to see how it affects you. *not talking about offroaders riding ebikes here on singletrack.

Furthermore, I'm not talking about "giving up human powered"....I ride my bike 80% of the time human powered. Regular riding and e-biking can and do exist together.
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Old 07-13-19, 08:45 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by linberl
Speed is speed. If a human can go 24mph unassisted (my son does it all the time) then why does it matter if an e-bike can go 15 or 20mph assisted? It isn't whether it has a motor or not that is the issue (except maybe it you are just prejudiced against assistive devices), it is the speed. There is absolutely no difference between me on my little folding bike with my friction drive motor going 15mph and my son on his hybrid riding next to me sans motor. We are going at the same speed (except he gets tired of riding with me because I slow him down), using the same infrastructure, causing the same wear. Not all ebikes are heavy (my bike with motor system is 23.5lbs) but even if they do weigh more, then perhaps we'd have to ban heavy riders on regular bikes too if we claim weight increases damage to infrastructure. All I get from your comments is "you don't like ebikes" and if that's the case, don't buy one! Just like folks who don't believe in gay marriage should simply not get gay-married! In other words, aside from your sensibilities, I fail to see how it affects you. *not talking about offroaders riding ebikes here on singletrack.

Furthermore, I'm not talking about "giving up human powered"....I ride my bike 80% of the time human powered. Regular riding and e-biking can and do exist together.
Non sequitur, its not about not liking e-bike. People can ride barges for all I care. My concern is having the on the bike paths. Its about having them categorized the same as standard bicycles and encroaching on the tradition bike paths.

The video explains it all. This is the type of of clueless, non-experienced rider I'm talking about most afraid of swarming the bike path. It one thins to be new to cycling, but its something totally different to be clueless with 200-600 watts of force under you.
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Old 07-13-19, 09:02 PM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Non sequitur, its not about not liking e-bike. People can ride barges for all I care. My concern is having the on the bike paths. Its about having them categorized the same as standard bicycles and encroaching on the tradition bike paths.

The video explains it all. This is the type of of clueless, non-experienced rider I'm talking about most afraid of swarming the bike path. It one thins to be new to cycling, but its something totally different to be clueless with 200-600 watts of force under you.
If being clueless was a reason to keep people off bike paths, no one would be allowed to ride. Please, tell me how much force is there when my son rides at 24mph unassisted? Is it more than someone on a 20mph limited ebike? What about a 300 lb guy on a 45 lb hybrid going 20mph? If I'm walking my dog and any one of those hits me, the effect is pretty much going to be the same, not good. As to "swarming" the bike path....how many is a "swarm"? As many as are in the giant roadie groups I encounter every day that take up the entire path and make it impossible for anyone else to ride? That kind of "swarm"? E-bikes are no more inherently dangerous than regular bikes or were you planning on lobbying for limits on regular bikes so they can't go faster than 15 mph? Frankly, I would take an inexperience e-bike rider capped at 15 or 20mph over some show-off wannabe flying down the path at 20+mph, hands free, pumping out loud music and reading his texts.
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Old 07-14-19, 02:06 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by linberl
If being clueless was a reason to keep people off bike paths, no one would be allowed to ride. Please, tell me how much force is there when my son rides at 24mph unassisted? Is it more than someone on a 20mph limited ebike? What about a 300 lb guy on a 45 lb hybrid going 20mph? If I'm walking my dog and any one of those hits me, the effect is pretty much going to be the same, not good. As to "swarming" the bike path....how many is a "swarm"? As many as are in the giant roadie groups I encounter every day that take up the entire path and make it impossible for anyone else to ride? That kind of "swarm"? E-bikes are no more inherently dangerous than regular bikes or were you planning on lobbying for limits on regular bikes so they can't go faster than 15 mph? Frankly, I would take an inexperience e-bike rider capped at 15 or 20mph over some show-off wannabe flying down the path at 20+mph, hands free, pumping out loud music and reading his texts.
There is an inherent flaw in your logic. There's more to the formula than just speed and force. Every cyclist is an operator. And while one has developed skills and experience over time along with his increase of power and speed, the other has not. There's a reason we start off on trainers, before progressing to the real thing.
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Old 07-14-19, 07:11 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
I see that you "have modified" your point of view a bit, over the last few years.....
I have not modified my point of view at all.

Here are my points as they have always been and continue to be.

1. eBikes ARE NOT bicycles (whether they have a throttle or not) and should be legally classified as motor-vehicles, NOT bicycles
2. eBikes SHOULD NOT be allowed on public bikepaths, MUPS, and backcountry trails
3. Electric motorbikes may ride on public roads with other motorized vehicles

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you're confused. Here is my quote from 2016:

eBikes do seem like an excellent vehicle for commuting especially when replacing a car. As long a they remain part of the motorized infrastructure that permeates the world. I've got no problem with them in bike-lanes either.
As far as banning eBikes you may confusing my position that eBikes should be banned from discussion in the Bicycle Touring sub-forum as they are NOT bicycles. Any discussion of eBikes on BikeForums should be relagated to the eBikes sub-forum.



.

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Old 07-14-19, 09:33 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by linberl
If being clueless was a reason to keep people off bike paths, no one would be allowed to ride. Please, tell me how much force is there when my son rides at 24mph unassisted? Is it more than someone on a 20mph limited ebike? What about a 300 lb guy on a 45 lb hybrid going 20mph? If I'm walking my dog and any one of those hits me, the effect is pretty much going to be the same, not good. As to "swarming" the bike path....how many is a "swarm"? As many as are in the giant roadie groups I encounter every day that take up the entire path and make it impossible for anyone else to ride? That kind of "swarm"? E-bikes are no more inherently dangerous than regular bikes or were you planning on lobbying for limits on regular bikes so they can't go faster than 15 mph? Frankly, I would take an inexperience e-bike rider capped at 15 or 20mph over some show-off wannabe flying down the path at 20+mph, hands free, pumping out loud music and reading his texts.
What bike and color kit does your son ride? I like to stay out of clueless rider's paths. And I have never seen a 300 pound person clueless or clued that could pedal 20 mph on a hybrid.

Threads like this this led me to hate all electric motor powered bikes that are driven on MUPs or in bike lanes. Ebike riders either write or believe the sales pitches for these "saviors of local bike shops".

Get back in your car. People with money buy a Tessla to ride in the car pool lane without carpooling. And people with money buy an ebike so they can ride a bicycle without pedaling. Sad.
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Old 07-14-19, 09:44 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
There is an inherent flaw in your logic. There's more to the formula than just speed and force. Every cyclist is an operator. And while one has developed skills and experience over time along with his increase of power and speed, the other has not. There's a reason we start off on trainers, before progressing to the real thing.
You must magically think that e-bike riders all just got up off their sofas and went out to buy ebikes suddenly. You're wrong. Many e-bike riders are cyclists, who rode regularly bikes and acquired all the requisite skills as such, then added an e-bike for a variety of reasons (limited health, not wanting to get sweaty commuting, etc.). The person on an e-bike who has zero experience riding is rare, and in any case, even that person will develop skills. Biking isn't rocket science, the skills come pretty quickly, and anyone buying an ebike who hasn't ridden a bike in years is going to be cautious - older people know they don't bend, they break.
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Old 07-14-19, 11:18 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by Classtime
What bike and color kit does your son ride? I like to stay out of clueless rider's paths. And I have never seen a 300 pound person clueless or clued that could pedal 20 mph on a hybrid.

Threads like this this led me to hate all electric motor powered bikes that are driven on MUPs or in bike lanes. Ebike riders either write or believe the sales pitches for these "saviors of local bike shops".

Get back in your car. People with money buy a Tessla to ride in the car pool lane without carpooling. And people with money buy an ebike so they can ride a bicycle without pedaling. Sad.
I deleted my initial response to you because I thought about this while out walking the dog. What if e-bike purchasers were required to attend and pass a skills class? would you then have issues with ebikes on pathways? Is your issue with the rider or the actual motor? When I returned to riding after a 20 year absence (on an ebike because I was worried about getting stranded) i took our local EBBC class which included classroom and hands on riding practice. I would have done that regardless of whether the bike was motorized or not, because riding in urban areas is scary. After a year on the ebike I sold it and got a regular bike (which I've been riding 6 years now). Now I need the motor "once in a while" and eventually I'll need it more (I'm just shy of 70 with osteoarthritic knees).
So - would you have been okay if I rode pathways when I got my ebike years ago, once I completed my class? Because if your problem is risk that addresses it. If your problem is a subconscious or overt bias against motors because you think it is "cheating", nothing is going to matter to you except that.
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Old 07-14-19, 03:15 PM
  #221  
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linberl - You're wasting your breath trying to educate the haters. Face it - for them the only machine worthy of the nomenclature "bicycle" is what they define via their strict sports religious belief. There is no room for any other gods ...for them, at least. They don't want to share - just like the motorists who hate bikes and think they should stay off the road because roads are for cars only.

We should be happy that you, as an almost 70 years old mom, can still ride - with a bit of assistance - with your own much younger and stronger son. We should be happy that numerous married men on this 50+ and up aged forum are posting to say they have discovered their wives (also 50 and up) are suddenly willing to join them in cycling when the ladies are offered a bit of assistance to make the joining fun. I'm sure there isn't a wife out there that doesn't smile at the prospect of seeing her cycling man happy that he can (once again or for the first time) share the time and his beloved sport with the woman he loves by the introduction of an ebike for her. If it's an ebike that is the defining factor capable of bringing them to that togetherness, then let's cheer on the Cupid in that technology.

I think it would well serve everyone in this current discussion to go back to page 1 and really read what the OP said in his original post. For him, the importance of being mobile and happy to still be riding took priority over the bike he would need to fulfil that goal as he aged. It's nicely written by a man who won't take his body's eventual "no" to mean the end of the road for cycling.

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Old 07-14-19, 04:32 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by momsonherbike
linberl - You're wasting your breath trying to educate the haters. Face it - for them the only machine worthy of the nomenclature "bicycle" is what they define via their strict sports religious belief. There is no room for any other gods ...for them, at least. They don't want to share..
I think you're the one who needs an education in The History of the Bicycle

Motors have never been part of a bicycle!

Maybe you're mixing up your histories ---> The History of the Motorcycle

To quote the opening:

The history of the motorcycle begins in the second half of the 19th century. Motorcycles are descended from the "safety bicycle," a bicycle with front and rear wheels of the same size
.

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Old 07-14-19, 05:07 PM
  #223  
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Naw, not going to banter with you. Read whatever history you like to support your rigid elitist views. I know that the original bicycles didn't come with pedals or chains either. One had to push themselves along with their feet to go. And later that motors were indeed added to bikes, and how that transformation lead to other technological advances in the name of two wheeled vehicles and travel.

So frankly I don't care about what might have been with life back 100 years ago. My view is the here and now, because I live in the here and now, and how bikes have evolved to embrace more than just a select few of the healthy young set because of the advances in battery and electric motor technology. About time us old folks got back the joy and fun of cycling, even if it comes with a touch of the modern.
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Old 07-14-19, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by momsonherbike
Naw, not going to banter with you. Read whatever history you like to support your views. I know that the original bicycles didn't come with pedals or chains either. One had to push themselves along with their feet to go. And later that motors were indeed added to bikes, and how that transformation lead to other technological advances in the name of two wheeled vehicles and travel.

So frankly I don't care about what might have been with life back 100 years ago. My view is the here and now, because I live in the here and now, and how bikes have evolved to embrace more than just a select few of the healthy young set. About time us old folks got back the joy and fun of cycling, even if it comes with a touch of the modern.
Sheesh Mom.., You're on a bicycle-lovers-site trying to tell us to MOTORIZE our bikes so we can experience joy. I think you're very misguided. I'm 66, a grandpa, and truly do love the simplicity and FEELING of riding a bike like I did as kid. Not racing! No motors! No drugs! Not fantasizing that I'm stronger than I am. Just enjoying the ride.
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Old 07-14-19, 06:21 PM
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This past week I had an opportunity to exchange pleasantries with a 70 something y/o gentleman riding up GMR-GRR in Angeles National Forest on an e-bike. He suffered an achilles tendon rupture a year earlier and was a strong cyclist prior to his injury.

Note: this ride has 4,400 feet of ascent in 20 miles. He was doing an 80 mile loop and had to swap batteries about 14 miles up the ascent. Even with the battery assist he was working hard and seemed to really enjoy himself in the mountains.

I thought this was a good example of how an e-bike can bridge the gap for those who were previously able to complete arduous rides but because of injury now need an assist.
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