Dutch City Bikes
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Dutch City Bikes
So my wife and I are reading through David Owen's "Green Metropolis" book and I think she's getting convinced to move closer to Car Free.
We watched one of the "rush hour in amsterdam" kind of videos and she seemed to be pretty open to riding bikes like that. I was telling her how the relaxed geometry of the Dutch bikes they're riding makes it a lot slower, but relaxed ride. Also, with the step through frames it's a lot safer starting/stopping suddenly (or slipping in the rain/snow).
I looked online and most of the bikes that have these attributes (70 degree seat tube and head tube angle, clearance for wide tires, jacket/skirt fender, coaster hub) and they're either super expensive ($1200) bikes for yuppies that'll just get stolen, or super cheap crappy ones. Has anyone gone through a similar process in finding a good flatland city bike? What did you end up doing?
I've looked at a lot of options and I'm thinking of getting an older cruiser or something and putting on a 3 speed coaster hub and the whole works. It seems like that process can easily end up with price creep. I want something cheap enough that we can spray paint so it looks trashy, but nice enough that it's not breaking a lot (i don't want my wife crashing because of bad brakes or something, or get stuck in a gear).
We watched one of the "rush hour in amsterdam" kind of videos and she seemed to be pretty open to riding bikes like that. I was telling her how the relaxed geometry of the Dutch bikes they're riding makes it a lot slower, but relaxed ride. Also, with the step through frames it's a lot safer starting/stopping suddenly (or slipping in the rain/snow).
I looked online and most of the bikes that have these attributes (70 degree seat tube and head tube angle, clearance for wide tires, jacket/skirt fender, coaster hub) and they're either super expensive ($1200) bikes for yuppies that'll just get stolen, or super cheap crappy ones. Has anyone gone through a similar process in finding a good flatland city bike? What did you end up doing?
I've looked at a lot of options and I'm thinking of getting an older cruiser or something and putting on a 3 speed coaster hub and the whole works. It seems like that process can easily end up with price creep. I want something cheap enough that we can spray paint so it looks trashy, but nice enough that it's not breaking a lot (i don't want my wife crashing because of bad brakes or something, or get stuck in a gear).
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You don't say where you are located. Is it a flat area? What distances are you looking at? There are lots of options out there.
If you can find them old, Raleighs (or clones) can usually be had relatively inexpensively, are easy to work on and extremely durable.
Torker Bikes makes several bikes that are suitable and fairly inexpensive. Look specifically at the T-530 and T300. I have a Redline R530 (no longer made) that is almost identical to the T-530. Base price is around $600, accessories extra...
There are many other brands out there that would be suitable too.
Aaron
If you can find them old, Raleighs (or clones) can usually be had relatively inexpensively, are easy to work on and extremely durable.
Torker Bikes makes several bikes that are suitable and fairly inexpensive. Look specifically at the T-530 and T300. I have a Redline R530 (no longer made) that is almost identical to the T-530. Base price is around $600, accessories extra...
There are many other brands out there that would be suitable too.
Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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Check your local bike collective for a vintage mixte frame.
Seem like you could do really well recreating a city bike with one.
Seem like you could do really well recreating a city bike with one.
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One point to remember during your search for a good bike........DON'T BUY A BIG BOX MART BIKE!!
The mart bikes are only good for kids until they tear them up!!
The mart bikes are only good for kids until they tear them up!!
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My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
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Try looking at the bikes from Public, Linus, or the Trek Belleville.
The Linus dutchi sounds close to what you want.
The Linus dutchi sounds close to what you want.
Last edited by Abneycat; 01-16-11 at 03:16 PM.
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Torker and other similar bikes
I have a Torker Cargo-T. I got it new for less than $500. It's a copy of the Batavus Personal Delivery, one of those $1300 bikes you were talking about. The difference is that the Dutch bikes are made to sit outside in the weather (like cars in the USA). They have treated frames, fully enclosed chains and all of the shiny bits are rust resistant. The Torker is fine, but wouldn't last as long if left outside.
There's a website that specializes in Utility and Transportation bikes available in the US and Canada:
https://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/
There's a website that specializes in Utility and Transportation bikes available in the US and Canada:
https://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/
#8
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Dutch making the bikes in their own country and then exporting them to the US
are going to be more costly than one made in China.. Wages are a cost..
Yuan is held low , where the Euro, as currency, is more than the dollar.
are going to be more costly than one made in China.. Wages are a cost..
Yuan is held low , where the Euro, as currency, is more than the dollar.
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I think most people have forgotten these basic ideas and expectations since the shops are being flooded with cheap throwaway products.
Last edited by folder fanatic; 01-17-11 at 09:42 PM.
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I'd love to get one of these style of bikes with a big cage up front for beer runs
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I agree as I own at present European made bikes only (Brompton & Raleigh Twenty-older UK made). I did pay a huge premium up front, especially for the Brompton. But the thing to consider is how the bike performed/aged during the time I had them. As for major problems, there has not been any for the now 5 years that I had the Brompton except for the chain jumping off the track just one time (and fixed on the road easily by my mechanically challenged self with no special tools or help). Ditto for the Raleigh Twenty. My former Chinese made bikes were ok for the first year or so (except for replacing defective parts on 2 different bikes from different years at purchase that were not spotted at the factory)-it fell on the dealer's shoulders to fix something that was not their fault). Then came the bad news that I could not replace the proprietary parts as they were no longer made (short production runs for only 1 year or so). So....now I only buy quality products that can be repaired, replaced, and proven reliable over the years. I will gladly pay far more for quality control and pride of workmanship over far east "bargain" products.
I think most people have forgotten these basic ideas and expectations since the shops are being flooded with cheap throwaway products.
I think most people have forgotten these basic ideas and expectations since the shops are being flooded with cheap throwaway products.
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Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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I agree with most of what you say here, esp. the part about being willing to pay more up front for quality that will last, but I disagree with your last statement, the one about the shops being flooded with cheap throwaway products. If you try to buy a bike in a department store then, yes, you will pay a lower price for a very crappy bike that will be inoperable within six months. On the other hand, every real bike shop.....
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I took my GF with me on a business trip to Amsterdam for a week a couple of years ago... We rented bikes on the first day and we rode everywhere/everyday... she absolutely loved it! When we got home I found a used Electra Amsterdam on craigslist, and it hit the spot.
Now, I'm not claiming it's the same quality as a real Dutch bike, it's not. Then again, she doesn't fly off curbs, pop wheelies, take it mtn biking, etc... nor does she ride in the rain or snow. I clean & maintain it and and store it inside the garage (unlike the folks in Amsterdam). It's holding up great, no problems at all. She gets compliments ALL the time, and she is ready/willing to ride anywhere/anytime with me.
Now, I'm not claiming it's the same quality as a real Dutch bike, it's not. Then again, she doesn't fly off curbs, pop wheelies, take it mtn biking, etc... nor does she ride in the rain or snow. I clean & maintain it and and store it inside the garage (unlike the folks in Amsterdam). It's holding up great, no problems at all. She gets compliments ALL the time, and she is ready/willing to ride anywhere/anytime with me.
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Personally I have been wanting a dutch bike too, but I can't afford it with a car payment. I just saw one of those Linus mixte bikes over in Austin this last weekend and it was a beautiful bike. I don't know how much those cost though. One that has kinda found my interest a little bit is a Globe Live 2 Mixte here
Also on the cheaper end I think is KHS but I don't know how their reliability is. They have the Green and Cidi.
As for guys bikes I don't know much. My current Trek 7.3 I have it set up kinda like a dutch bike, but I don't think it is quite the same and is not as reliable as I would hope IMO. I still think a true dutch bike may blow them out of the water though still. Especially due to the fully enclosed drivetrain, skirt guards and lights with the hub generator.
Edit: I totally forgot about breezer, they are worth a good look too, and have the enclosed drivetrain on some models. Plus they fit in on the $600-$1000 budget.
Also on the cheaper end I think is KHS but I don't know how their reliability is. They have the Green and Cidi.
As for guys bikes I don't know much. My current Trek 7.3 I have it set up kinda like a dutch bike, but I don't think it is quite the same and is not as reliable as I would hope IMO. I still think a true dutch bike may blow them out of the water though still. Especially due to the fully enclosed drivetrain, skirt guards and lights with the hub generator.
Edit: I totally forgot about breezer, they are worth a good look too, and have the enclosed drivetrain on some models. Plus they fit in on the $600-$1000 budget.
Last edited by silentlysailing; 02-09-11 at 07:57 PM.
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It's a steal!
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One that has kinda found my interest a little bit is a Globe Live 2 Mixte here
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I love the Dutch and their uber-casual lifestyle.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
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I love the Dutch and their uber-casual lifestyle.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
Apparently, a lot of other people have reached the same conclusion. The Dutch bike shop is still there, but they've converted over half of their space into a coffee bar, and that's the only part that seems to be doing any business.
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Dutch bikes are beautiful but ultimately impractical in many cases. Seattle has a LBS that sells Dutch bikes, and when I went shopping for a new bike, I checked one out. I found it to be very cool, but too heavy even by my standards, too difficult to ride up hills, too slow, and far too expensive for such a poorly performing bike. A good touring bike costs less, performs the same function, and provides a better riding experience in much more varied terrain.
Apparently, a lot of other people have reached the same conclusion. The Dutch bike shop is still there, but they've converted over half of their space into a coffee bar, and that's the only part that seems to be doing any business.
Apparently, a lot of other people have reached the same conclusion. The Dutch bike shop is still there, but they've converted over half of their space into a coffee bar, and that's the only part that seems to be doing any business.
In the United States (and Canada too I think), Bike use is still recreational in nature-a glorified toy-and for the most part, there is no secure place to park them. So the disposable bike (far east made & cheap) is the way to go. Plus times are still hard (I don't believe the news anymore about the "improving" economy) and people are still not buying expensive anything right now-including genuine Dutch City bikes. Perhaps that is why your local Dutch bike shop had to add the coffee bar since that is still cheap and affordable even for an unemployed or underemployed person, not megabucks bikes or their accessories.
I love the Dutch and their uber-casual lifestyle.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
These bikes wouldn't work in Richmond though, it's has too many long climbs.
Unless I'm missing something about these cycles?
Isn't The Netherlands basically flat?
I don't remember any hills in Amsterdam for some reason.
Last edited by folder fanatic; 02-10-11 at 05:04 PM.
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Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon