texaspandj

I have front derailleurs.
105 1050
600 6401
Ultegra 6500
Not sure if any are compact compatible.

riva

Its a 24" wheel, I think 520mm. There exists a 540mm 24" wheel size, but I think 520 is what they used for all of these. IIRC they did it to shorten the frame tubes up without running into limits. The 2 limits what come to mind are toe overlap for short wheelbase short height frame, or intersection of the top and down tube if you try to do longer wheelbase short height frame.

If you look at the 24 front bike in the pic, the headtube is really long for the height of the frame. On a short 700c the two lugs on the headtube are just about touching each other, but the IM with with the 24 front has an even lower top tube height than the bike next to it.

Steering is super sharp on those things. Takes some getting used to. And btw that lens flare is pure taco grease baby.. no filters!

VintageTTfan

I understand. Were those fakes of Centurions done as one or a few bikes or were they done in runs of 100 or more? That is an important question because it is pretty easy to fake a few but it takes a big commitment, time, money and work to do a run of a hundred and it requires a calculation that a lot of money could be made as a return on the investment by the crook. That is why I concluded that a large counterfeit run of Centurion Turbo TT's was out of the question. Serial numbers have already been found proving at least 125 I believe. Okay will thanks for all your input.

VintageTTfan

Sorry just getting back to yah....not always at my computer. Well I am happy to hear that the Centurion Turbo TT is not viewed as a fake or a counterfeit. However, if anyone had proof or an opinion that it was I would want to hear it. Yeah my mechanics son really loved the frame when I brought it over...and they know more about vintage than I do. The paint is high quality as you said. Good to know the lugs fit the profile. The font fits Germany and the time period for their Centurion branch I believe. Glad T-Mar confirms that it is Japanese. We owe you and him and a few others for your extensive knowledge on Centurion. I agree that it is German Centurion based on the decals on the head tube etc.

Yeah it is crazy that people made fake Ironmans! How sleazy. Would have made more sense if the fakes were made in the late eighties when they sold for more money. That would give them more reason to make fakes. I do not call repaints or customization an attempt to make a fake or counterfeit. The motive there is personal use not ripping people off. It sounds to me that the fakes you are referring to were pretty obvious and not done in large 100 unit runs. The Centurion Turbo TT as you know looks totally authentic and so far runs to at least 125 units. That is why I have to conclude it is authentic. Thanks for your valuable input.

RobbieTunes

Pat loses his, too. He gets going good, works on a bike, and then a squirrel runs out and it's all over.

VintageTTfan

Thanks for looking that up for me. Appreciated.

VintageTTfan

Are you sure that the serial numbers on the pictures of the Centurion Turbo TT are showing different years for that specific bike??? To me they seem to indicate that they are all from the same year. Are you sure you are not throwing the purple Expert Lady serial number into the equation....a number that does not belong in the calculations?

Okay here is the vital part and my overall argument on why the Centurion Turbo TT is not a counterfeit or a fake based on actual serial numbers (I want to see if you agree Pat and anyone else reading this):

The serial numbers I have for the Centurion Turbo TT are:
Y8C4620

Y8C4646

Y8C4658

The serial number I have for the German Centurion Expert Lady is:

Y7K1681

The format is: letter/#/letter/#### in all the cases. They all have the Y. The second slot has to refer to the year logically if you look at the different numbers because they are all late eighties Centurions. So we deduce that all the Centurion Turbo TT''s were made in 1988 because they all have an 8 in the second slot. We also deduce that the Expert Lady was made in 1987 because we have a 7 in the second slot. Concerning the third slot I have no idea, but I note that all the Centurion Turbo TT's have a C there and the Expert Lady has a K there. I would bet that all Centurion Turbo TT's have a C there. It does show consistency and that it differs from the Expert Lady which makes sense. Then for the next slots which are slots four and five, all the Centurion Turbo TT's here have 4 and 6 in the slots. I am not sure what these slots designate but there is consistency here. On the Expert Lady we have 1 and 6 in these slots which makes sense since they are different than the Centurion Turbo TT's. The last two slots on the Centurion Turbo TT's are all different but within a very tight range. I think these last two slots indicate the number on that exact particular bike. The tight range makes sense since not many were made (my guess is 125 to 200 tops that were manufactured)

Sorry so long but this stuff is a bit technical to figure it all out. Now the Expert Lady is definitely a legitimate Centurion. I know this and have proved it by showing you a color picture from the German Centurion catalog. The Expert Lady has the same letter/#/letter/#### format as the Centurion Turbo TT. And most of us agree that the Turbo TT is a German Centurion made in Japan. The fact that these two different models of German Centurion have the exact same serial number format is a good sign. It shows that the Centurion Turbo TT follows the exact same format that was used on a legitimate German Centurion of the late eighties. This speaks well for the case that the Centurion Turbo Time Trial bicycle is legitimate and authentic i.e. not a fake or a counterfeit. The fact that both models have a Y in the first slot shows consistency. The closeness of the year 1987 and 1988 is a good sign. That is the detective work so far.

Since this post was a ton of work.....Phew! (not complaining) and I am hot on the trail like Sherlock Hommie, it would be much appreciated if any and all of you would give your judgement on my argument and any of your valued insight on it. I depend on Bike Forums for so much and you guys in particular for Centurionology. Let me know what your thoughts and conclusion are. Perhaps T-Mar can be brought in as the Centurion serial number expert. I also direct this post to Pat who gave me the idea to compare serial numbers so thanks.

P.S. Pat, would your serial numbers on your Japanese market Expert be relevant here or would they not because we are talking German Centurions on this issue? What is the Japanese Centurion format and is that relevant?
If anyone wants to see the pictures that back all this up scroll up to post 7331 not far back that I posted.


These are of me hot on the trail of the Mystery of the Centurion Turbo TT......obsessed by a beautiful bicycle.

riva

While you are researching..

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...etro+synthwave

Classtime 

Not a tri-bike
I have a 1050 front and a black Deore rear that should go to ten. (The Deore is a bit heavy but will do mega for sure.) AND whoever might be using the repair kit should take advantage tonight of
https://planetcyclery.com/continenta...m_source=zaius
one day only. 41 bucks is a deal if they are even better than the 4000s.

edit: can't wait to see this one. Powder coat, touch up, or just a polish?

Vintage_Cyclist

Likelihood these are counterfeit is < 1% in my opinion. There are a few threads on these here and the consensus seems to be they're from the German Centurion company, probably when they were still working with H. Tano in Japan. They seem to have be mostly showing up in Europe, from what I've seen. A few years ago, someone in Great Britain also had a stash of these they were selling, with the forks. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a box of 650C forks waiting to be found somewhere in Greece (that eBay seller threw another frame up for sale, by the way).

You might try going to the German Centurion (the company is Merida & Centurion Germany GmbH) site and emailing them with an inquiry, to see if they recall anything about these frames. I previously did this, to see if they had any connection with WSI (they didn't, other than previously using the same general contractor, H, Tano, in Japan) and they got quickly back to me and were pleased to know that people still dig the old Centurion bikes.

seypat

My Japanese bike serial number would not be relevant to the TT mystery. If you want to solve the mystery, Europe will be your best bet. The post above mine had a good suggestion. Also contact the bike shops located in and around Germany. You might get lucky. My Asian Expert has a faded sticker from the Japanese shop that originally sold it. I looked them up and they are still in business. I also have a Condor that was purchased in the early 70s from the shop in England. They are still in business as well. You might get lucky.

RobbieTunes

OK, slight change to 8-sp.
Need the following:
1-wide-range cassette, 8sp, not an anchor.
2-a pair of tire levers
3-a pair of tubes, remember, she's racing it.
4-a pair of tires, remember, she's racing it.
5-a zero-setback 27.0 seat post.


'89 Master. 54cm. 2x8 compact brifters with wider rear.
Simply an Ironman.

Everything else, we got. Some people chipped in and didn't even know it.

RobbieTunes

Spent the morning organizing parts.
Waffling re: 10-speed, but don't have shifters.
If I can finagle them, this could be really nice.
I'd upgrade everything, and we'd have Ironmaidens across the country.
I think we already have them in CA, TX, and NH...but world dominance is a slow process.

So folks, if you have ideas about 10-sp shifters (even DT versions).
I'm open to trades for the items, of course.


When this is done, I'll trade her the Ironmaiden rocket for hers. Costs a bit, but cheaper than bowling or fishing, right?
Which then creates a new project, likely for me. I'll get it coated and re-create the NotYourDaddy's Ironman, but in a smaller size.

seypat

I got the levers and tubes.
Would a pair of black Conti Gran Prix 700/25 be good enough?
How wide of an 8 speed cassette? 28t big sprocket or 30+?
Last but not least, is this a casual acquaintance or a potential "riding" partner? If it is the 2nd, we might need some juicy details.

texaspandj

So back to 10 speed right?
Because I think I have some 8 speed stuff.

RobbieTunes

Yes, mainly because of what I have on hand.
Plus, to go from 7sp tricolor to 8sp tricolor doesn't do a lot for the bike, performance-wise.

I, too, have a ton of 8sp stuff, including Sora brifters, 6400 brifters, and 2/3 x 8 downtube shifters.

However, I do not have any wide-range 8-sp cassettes, and they are heavy. I do have some 10-sp cassettes which go wide enough.

Looks like all I need are a set of 10-sp brifters or DT shifters, and I can toss this thing together.

TXsailor

I have a cassette but its 10 speed I would have to see what it is for sure but I am thinking its 12-28 or 12-26 and some FSA 130 bdc 9/10 speed chain rings in case you decide to go 10 speed.

rccardr 

Why do you always go off on these escapades when I'm in the south of France?

TXsailor

I have had to buy new shifters when I went 10 speed. I used the Dura Ace 7900 that are usually about $65. I could chip in a little towards a set if it would help.

seypat

How about the black Conti Gran Prix? I have a set new still in the boxes. If those will work, I'll send those, the tire levers and the tubes your way.

TriBiker19 

You're not around to stop him?

seypat

I'm sending some Park levers instead. I remember the Pedro levers don't work well for me. The edges are too thick and don't dig under the bead well.

RobbieTunes

cool

seypat

Check out my story in the "Why do we help each other" thread. It might bring back some memories for you since you spent some time there. The young man actually lives in housing at Fort Story.

RobbieTunes

We own our escapades, eh?