Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph
#101
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What makes you think "Elon Musk's car" is autonomously avoiding such crashes? Because Elon Musk said so?
What makes you think that technology exists for cars to always avoid colliding with non-stationary objects on any and every road that motor vehicles and bicycles are permitted?
Why do you assume it would not really be that expensive to install this fantastic and yet to be developed hardware and software on every motor vehicle in the United States ? What is your definition of expensive? How much do you currently spend on your motor vehicles and how much more are you willing to spend on a a so-called "Elon Musk car" based on an empty promise to allegedly "save the children"?
What makes you think it shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic? Who is going to "implement" such a law?
"Think about it" indeed rather than just whatever pipe dream comes to mind about the number of lives that can be saved just by this "sole technology" that exists in your daydreams.
What makes you think that technology exists for cars to always avoid colliding with non-stationary objects on any and every road that motor vehicles and bicycles are permitted?
Why do you assume it would not really be that expensive to install this fantastic and yet to be developed hardware and software on every motor vehicle in the United States ? What is your definition of expensive? How much do you currently spend on your motor vehicles and how much more are you willing to spend on a a so-called "Elon Musk car" based on an empty promise to allegedly "save the children"?
What makes you think it shouldn't be that hard to implement some kind of law to prevent cars without that technology to go into traffic? Who is going to "implement" such a law?
"Think about it" indeed rather than just whatever pipe dream comes to mind about the number of lives that can be saved just by this "sole technology" that exists in your daydreams.
Now i will accept that i am not aware of the price of implementing such technology to the cars that are currently being manufactured. Maybe the technology is patented. However, this is the future. It will eventually be in every vehicle on the road. Because people will want to buy this technology to avoid headaches and regrets. I for example would like to have a car with this kind of technology. It is not an empty promise, believe me, the system is constantly learning from all the Teslas in traffic and updating itself accordingly. And i know other car manufacturers implementing similar technologies in their new models which automatically brakes when it detects an object closer than the safe distance.
About the law thing, well, the public can push their representatives to maybe "incentivize" such technologies with a tax cut for example. That could make such cars more popular.
In the end, it is not a pipe dream. It is the future. This is going to happen eventually. I am pretty sure seatbelts were also a "pipe dream" when they were first introduced. Now they are in every car, "mandatorily" i should say.
#102
Cycleway town
And Volvo invented the seatbelt. But they refused to patent them, so that everyone else could use them too.
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#103
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Well, if people can sleep in the driver seats of their "Teslas", i am pretty sure that this technology does exist. You can actually see many videos of Teslas avoiding crashes with either stationary or moving vehicles.
Now i will accept that i am not aware of the price of implementing such technology to the cars that are currently being manufactured. Maybe the technology is patented. However, this is the future. It will eventually be in every vehicle on the road. Because people will want to buy this technology to avoid headaches and regrets. I for example would like to have a car with this kind of technology. It is not an empty promise, believe me, the system is constantly learning from all the Teslas in traffic and updating itself accordingly. And i know other car manufacturers implementing similar technologies in their new models which automatically brakes when it detects an object closer than the safe distance.
About the law thing, well, the public can push their representatives to maybe "incentivize" such technologies with a tax cut for example. That could make such cars more popular.
In the end, it is not a pipe dream. It is the future. This is going to happen eventually. I am pretty sure seatbelts were also a "pipe dream" when they were first introduced. Now they are in every car, "mandatorily" i should say.
Now i will accept that i am not aware of the price of implementing such technology to the cars that are currently being manufactured. Maybe the technology is patented. However, this is the future. It will eventually be in every vehicle on the road. Because people will want to buy this technology to avoid headaches and regrets. I for example would like to have a car with this kind of technology. It is not an empty promise, believe me, the system is constantly learning from all the Teslas in traffic and updating itself accordingly. And i know other car manufacturers implementing similar technologies in their new models which automatically brakes when it detects an object closer than the safe distance.
About the law thing, well, the public can push their representatives to maybe "incentivize" such technologies with a tax cut for example. That could make such cars more popular.
In the end, it is not a pipe dream. It is the future. This is going to happen eventually. I am pretty sure seatbelts were also a "pipe dream" when they were first introduced. Now they are in every car, "mandatorily" i should say.
"In the future", lots of things might eventually happen, seems like a reasonably safe assumption.
#104
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In any case, the technology available in a Tesla is quite good but still at an early stage. 10 yrs from now with a few extra hardware revisions it will clearly be much better and costs will have come down to allow the technology in entry level vehicles.
#105
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You better hope you are not bicycling on the road in front of people sleeping in the driver seats of their "Teslas"; you might be unpleasantly made aware of the limitations of the current technology used in Tesla automobiles.
"In the future", lots of things might eventually happen, seems like a reasonably safe assumption.
"In the future", lots of things might eventually happen, seems like a reasonably safe assumption.
#106
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I am not trying to legitimize sleeping in the driver seats. These people should be punished of course. What i am trying to say is that if these people are that much comfortable, that means the system actually works. Other people are videotaping these incidents and even though they are obviously sleeping, those cars do not crash. The technology is obviously quite new. In a few years it will be so much better in recognising objects on the road, including us cyclists. What I don't understand about your rebuttal is your solution to this problem? Are you suggesting policy changes, harder punishments, bigger fines? If that is the case, I suggest you to take a look at history in general, and see what kind of changes actually saved the most number of lives. It is never laws or politics. It is always technology and science (including medicine). Most traffic accidents happen because of human error. If you can eliminate human error (through technology), you can solve this problem. Of course there will be malfunctioning machines. But they will be far less and probably be caused by another kind of human error.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/b...mous-cars.html
For more on the promise of Elon Musk's "autonomous self driving cars" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ot-s-lost-year
BTW, people often drive while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. Does that behavior also merit your"safety" endorsement because such people are comfortable with these activities and usually arrive safely at their destination despite risky behavior?
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 09-08-19 at 01:54 PM.
#107
Senior Member
I am suggesting that your supremely optimistic faith that "future technology" is here now or in the foreseeable future that will eliminate most motor vehicle collisions by eliminating human errors is touching but merely means that you have been drinking from the PR Koolaid put out by the promoters of Silicon Valley autonomous vehicle schemes and their associated venture capitalists.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/b...mous-cars.html
For more on the promise of Elon Musk's "autonomous self driving cars" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ot-s-lost-year
BTW, people often drive while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. Does that behavior also merit your"safety" endorsement because such people are comfortable with these activities and usually arrive safely at their destination despite risky behavior?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/b...mous-cars.html
For more on the promise of Elon Musk's "autonomous self driving cars" https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ot-s-lost-year
BTW, people often drive while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. Does that behavior also merit your"safety" endorsement because such people are comfortable with these activities and usually arrive safely at their destination despite risky behavior?
#108
Cop Magnet
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#109
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Game, set, match You make me laff. Video of one vehicle slowing down, for one bicyclist, one time - Game, set, matchfor the AV - Elon Musk fanboys. You must have a conniption over a few Waymo tightly controlled press releases about their alleged AV self driving program in AZ.
People often drive safely past bicyclists while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. No more silly worries about any of those driving situations, eh? Game, set, match, yeah, sure!
BTW, any good driver would not have had to slow down to 15 mph to safely pass that bicyclist with plenty of lateral distance, in the absence of any other traffic and with such clear sight lines.
People often drive safely past bicyclists while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. No more silly worries about any of those driving situations, eh? Game, set, match, yeah, sure!
BTW, any good driver would not have had to slow down to 15 mph to safely pass that bicyclist with plenty of lateral distance, in the absence of any other traffic and with such clear sight lines.
#110
Senior Member
Game, set, match You make me laff. Video of one vehicle slowing down, for one bicyclist, one time - Game, set, matchfor the AV - Elon Musk fanboys. You must have a conniption over a few Waymo tightly controlled press releases about their alleged AV self driving program in AZ.
People often drive safely past bicyclists while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. No more silly worries about any of those driving situations, eh? Game, set, match, yeah, sure!
BTW, any good driver would not have had to slow down to 15 mph to safely pass that bicyclist with plenty of lateral distance, in the absence of any other traffic and with such clear sight lines.
People often drive safely past bicyclists while partially blinded by the sun, or distracted by all sorts of things from crying babies, drinking/drugs, lack of sleep, to dropped cigarettes to fiddling with various controls or devices. No more silly worries about any of those driving situations, eh? Game, set, match, yeah, sure!
BTW, any good driver would not have had to slow down to 15 mph to safely pass that bicyclist with plenty of lateral distance, in the absence of any other traffic and with such clear sight lines.
PS: I am not getting a dime from Tesla
#111
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It is well known that techno fan boys will spout the gospel for nothing.
#112
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Oh please man. I am so done with this debate. You hate technology, i get it. A bicycle is also a technological invention. Maybe one day we will have autonomous bicycles as well. Will you be hating those too? What about e-bikes? You hate them too? I mean at least these guys (Elon and others) come up with solutions to our everyday problems. They have ideas. What solution do you have? How would you avoid that crash? Please share your wisdom with us. All you do is bashing it. So please be constructive and tell us your solution. I really want to know.
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Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad drivers out there, hence the 36,000 deaths every year in the US alone resulting from preventable accidents.
#114
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Last edited by mr_bill; 09-08-19 at 06:44 PM.
#115
Cycleway town
Electronics fail. Always have done, always will do. Electronic aids on cars fail.
When you need traction control, an electric window, or ABS, and it suddenly isn't there, it's inconvenient.
When you're sat in a Tesla reading the newspaper, and it's suddenly no longer going to avoid a cyclist, well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...
When you need traction control, an electric window, or ABS, and it suddenly isn't there, it's inconvenient.
When you're sat in a Tesla reading the newspaper, and it's suddenly no longer going to avoid a cyclist, well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...
#116
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Once the technology is advanced enough to be deployed in all mass-produced vehicles there will probably be a reduction in cyclist fatalities. Computer error/glitch is going to be much, much lower than human error, especially now with distracted driving so prevalent.
When that first cyclist/pedestrian death occurs involving an AV, however, there will be a huge outcry. Investigations launched. Vehicles recalled. Etc. Pedestrians and cyclists die every hour of every day by human-driven vehicles and most of those barely make the news.
When that first cyclist/pedestrian death occurs involving an AV, however, there will be a huge outcry. Investigations launched. Vehicles recalled. Etc. Pedestrians and cyclists die every hour of every day by human-driven vehicles and most of those barely make the news.
#117
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Electronics fail. Always have done, always will do. Electronic aids on cars fail.
When you need traction control, an electric window, or ABS, and it suddenly isn't there, it's inconvenient.
When you're sat in a Tesla reading the newspaper, and it's suddenly no longer going to avoid a cyclist, well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...
When you need traction control, an electric window, or ABS, and it suddenly isn't there, it's inconvenient.
When you're sat in a Tesla reading the newspaper, and it's suddenly no longer going to avoid a cyclist, well, I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...
#119
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Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?
#120
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Really? Than why are the promoters of autonomous self - driving vehicles having such a difficult time fielding a "properly designed" level 5 AV systems, with the vehicles capable of being driven safely on any highway while the driver snoozes away?
Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?
Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?
To reduce the accident rate you don't have to have fully autonomous driving. What they have now reduces stress and would eliminate many accidents even with a driver present. Most of the accidents I see during rush hour are just rear-enders that the current systems can deal with just fine.
Don't let 'perfect' be the enemy of good.
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*2019 Toyota Avalon with TSS 2.0. Unfortunately, they were "driving" a 2011/2012 Toyota Avalon.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-09-19 at 11:15 AM.
#122
Senior Member
Really? Than why are the promoters of autonomous self - driving vehicles having such a difficult time fielding a "properly designed" level 5 AV systems, with the vehicles capable of being driven safely on any highway while the driver snoozes away?
Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?
Any prediction when bicyclists will be able to relax while cycling in the traffic lane because so-called "properly designed AV systems" are in control?
#123
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Note the clever sophistry here. A loaded question is being used to suggest that a specific incident already in the past could not be prevented by a wide-sweeping measure.
We all know 100% of crashes can't be eliminated. What we can say is a population with higher average proficiency would be a lot less likely to causes these kinds of incidents. The alternative is stay the course and ticket the drivers who happen to get caught after the fact. However, it's also known that an ounce of prevention is worth far more than a pound of cure.
We all know 100% of crashes can't be eliminated. What we can say is a population with higher average proficiency would be a lot less likely to causes these kinds of incidents. The alternative is stay the course and ticket the drivers who happen to get caught after the fact. However, it's also known that an ounce of prevention is worth far more than a pound of cure.
#124
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In this case ‘proficiency’ would include knowing you should slow down to a speed you can stop from within the visibility. That would include rain, fog, and darkness. I can’t believe how many people continue full speed ahead when they can’t possibly see very far.
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#125
Junior Member
This was my first thought when I saw the video. I agree completely. You can't trust other motorists with your safety. We can blame the motorist all we want, but the cyclist wasn't doing everything he could to not get hit. You can't always assume other people are going to do the right thing, and be paying attention. This is the reason I avoid riding on roads.