Help identifying this unusual Raleigh
#2
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No to three pin chainring.
Further looking reveals a 46 stamp on the Cyclo "B" derailer. The seller thought the aluminum stem was significant in some way as denoting a certain model but wasn't sure what exactly.
Further looking reveals a 46 stamp on the Cyclo "B" derailer. The seller thought the aluminum stem was significant in some way as denoting a certain model but wasn't sure what exactly.
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Wow! Look at that wavy fork. Gotta drop that stem a bit lower but this bike is pretty cool.
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Fork's bent. (But you knew that already).
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Hah hah.. I made a joke in another thread about straightening it out with a hammer
I'm not sure what the story is with this one in particular but I've read that this was an intentional design sometimes to take up road vibration. If that, the derailer system and the aluminum stem seem to point to a custom built bike? No model decals but there is a Fred Deeley decal. This was a Vancouver based dealer established in 1914.
I'm not sure what the story is with this one in particular but I've read that this was an intentional design sometimes to take up road vibration. If that, the derailer system and the aluminum stem seem to point to a custom built bike? No model decals but there is a Fred Deeley decal. This was a Vancouver based dealer established in 1914.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-22-19 at 12:13 PM.
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WOW Cool Bike! Can't wait to see it cleaned up!
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Far as I know, the Super Sports was a 1948-only model. Though yours has a similar paint job on it, the '48 SS has a different seattube transfer:
I'd look up the model right now, but I'm a bit tied up trying to get some things done this morning. I would still advise looking in the '50 and '51 US and UK catalogs for a match though, starting with color availability. Surprisingly enough, those serials don't always lie...except when they do.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 09-22-19 at 03:41 PM. Reason: Clarifying some pronouns...
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The serial is consistent in form with my 1946/47 Raleigh Lenton Sport. So tied with the 46 on your derailleur, I would put your frame at 1946.
I am not saying it is a Lenton Sport as there are variations from my frame.
Peter Kohler would be a good person to ask about this bike.
Lenton Sports 012 by L Travers, on Flickr
I am not saying it is a Lenton Sport as there are variations from my frame.
Peter Kohler would be a good person to ask about this bike.
Lenton Sports 012 by L Travers, on Flickr
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Here's the 1947 Raleigh Catalog; note the description for the Super Sports as available in "orange enamel." A WAG is that the decal style that Kurt shows in the example above didn't appear until the following year, so the decal (and chainwheel) style of yours is consistent with this catalog description.
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Thank you so far guys. It's a puzzler but that's part of the fun when taking on a project - learning something new about bicycle history. I spent a lot of time yesterday scanning every combo of 40's Raleigh, cyclo derailer, super sport, etc... I could but found nothing similar with the gear system or down tube graphics. Gotta say, I am so happy with the paint and decal condition, all it needs is a gentle cleaning.
If any other type of shot would help let me know.
If any other type of shot would help let me know.
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Curious about those bars too. Seem to be track bars as offered on the Super Sport while the Lenton etal appear to have other types. But the stem is old aluminum so they could have been added after market or as part of the upgrade the Cyclo derailer suggests.
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I love the "Reverse Bates" fork
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Were this my bike I would find someone with the old Park tool for straightening forks and have a go at it. Either that or try Dave Moulton's approach. It is a lovely old bike and quite the score!
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Reading through Peter Kohlers excellent article I am now wondering if it is a 1952 Raleigh Super Lenton #27 .
The lack of 3 pin chain ring and graphics seems to remove the Super Sport from the mix even though the colour matches. The next mention of colour is the Super Lenton.
Perhaps, being marketed to Fred Deeley as a west coast distributor, the graphics were changed so his name could be added (he later had his own brand Deelite)?
And the Cyclo drivetrain was added in Vancouver from new old stock accounting for the 46 stamp.
I'm also fairly convinced now that the fork is just plain old bent instead of intentional. Almost all the stuff on the net suggests this.
The lack of 3 pin chain ring and graphics seems to remove the Super Sport from the mix even though the colour matches. The next mention of colour is the Super Lenton.
Perhaps, being marketed to Fred Deeley as a west coast distributor, the graphics were changed so his name could be added (he later had his own brand Deelite)?
And the Cyclo drivetrain was added in Vancouver from new old stock accounting for the 46 stamp.
I'm also fairly convinced now that the fork is just plain old bent instead of intentional. Almost all the stuff on the net suggests this.
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There is not a case in the world where a Raleigh fork was intended to look like that. It's bent, big time, just like my Rudge DL-1 was when I got it.
Like the Rudge, it can be straightened.
-Kurt
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And straightened it will be!
Did a litle more looking last night and found a couple more points to consider.
Rims are stainless steel not alloy.
Looked at the cranks. The arms are not fluted and on the back is a small stamp SA. I assume this is Sturmey Archer (couldn't get a pic).
The chainring is not a three pin design but has the heron head motif. On the backside was an inscription. At first I was really excited thinking it confirmed a 1948 but then realized it was a 48T ring. Bah.
I don't know if the Reg. number lines up to a date.
The seat lug has a braze on for a pulley. Perhaps someone can comment? When I look online it seems the bikes do not have this position for the pulley until 1950.
and a better view of the drop out design
Hopefully tonight I'll get some time to make a spreadsheet of the models from that era and the features they had and check the boxes from what is shown. That should narrow or eliminate some models at least.
Did a litle more looking last night and found a couple more points to consider.
Rims are stainless steel not alloy.
Looked at the cranks. The arms are not fluted and on the back is a small stamp SA. I assume this is Sturmey Archer (couldn't get a pic).
The chainring is not a three pin design but has the heron head motif. On the backside was an inscription. At first I was really excited thinking it confirmed a 1948 but then realized it was a 48T ring. Bah.
I don't know if the Reg. number lines up to a date.
The seat lug has a braze on for a pulley. Perhaps someone can comment? When I look online it seems the bikes do not have this position for the pulley until 1950.
and a better view of the drop out design
Hopefully tonight I'll get some time to make a spreadsheet of the models from that era and the features they had and check the boxes from what is shown. That should narrow or eliminate some models at least.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-24-19 at 08:46 AM.
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@BigChief knows the timelines for braze-on pulleys better than I, but my 1950 Raleigh Lenton Tourist has one.
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Well, my head goes round and round on this one.
Last night I sat down to start creating a spread sheet on my kitchen white board of identifier data points and comparisons to other models of the era (my wife thinks I am nuts)... and then I realized Peter Kohler already did that. Using that and flipping through articles and the catalogs I keep coming back to two models based on colour, both of which the bike has issues with.
48 Super Sport, 52 Super Lenton. In both cases the front chain ring is different. It is not a three pin detachable and it seems the Lentons did not use Heron heads. And both are 46T wherein mine is 48T. I am aware that Raleigh sometimes built bikes out of spare parts rather than model specs so maybe this is a hodge podge example?
Also, in this example of a 48 SS, there seems to be no hub pulley braze on and the front fork ends are pressed tubing. Mine are solid https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...machine-2.html
Anyway, Here's a list of identifiers I've located:
Serial - 36780 AY
Colour - Orange
S.A. Hub model - N/A
Chain ring - Heron head, non detachable, 48T
Crank arms - solid, non fluted, S.A. stamp
Rims - Chromed steel
Bars - Chromed steel
Hub pulley - present on top tube
Seat tube - 23"
Top tube - 21"
Need to measure the seat / head angles tonight...
Another hypothesis, which is looking more likely by the minute as nothing lines up from a production model angle, is that someone had a frame and built a custom model for themselves, either from Fred Deeley directly or later, using random parts of their choosing. That would explain the inconsistent chainrings/arms, aluminum stem, gearing etc...
Last night I sat down to start creating a spread sheet on my kitchen white board of identifier data points and comparisons to other models of the era (my wife thinks I am nuts)... and then I realized Peter Kohler already did that. Using that and flipping through articles and the catalogs I keep coming back to two models based on colour, both of which the bike has issues with.
48 Super Sport, 52 Super Lenton. In both cases the front chain ring is different. It is not a three pin detachable and it seems the Lentons did not use Heron heads. And both are 46T wherein mine is 48T. I am aware that Raleigh sometimes built bikes out of spare parts rather than model specs so maybe this is a hodge podge example?
Also, in this example of a 48 SS, there seems to be no hub pulley braze on and the front fork ends are pressed tubing. Mine are solid https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...machine-2.html
Anyway, Here's a list of identifiers I've located:
Serial - 36780 AY
Colour - Orange
S.A. Hub model - N/A
Chain ring - Heron head, non detachable, 48T
Crank arms - solid, non fluted, S.A. stamp
Rims - Chromed steel
Bars - Chromed steel
Hub pulley - present on top tube
Seat tube - 23"
Top tube - 21"
Need to measure the seat / head angles tonight...
Another hypothesis, which is looking more likely by the minute as nothing lines up from a production model angle, is that someone had a frame and built a custom model for themselves, either from Fred Deeley directly or later, using random parts of their choosing. That would explain the inconsistent chainrings/arms, aluminum stem, gearing etc...
Last edited by Happy Feet; 09-25-19 at 08:55 AM.
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Good find! I don't think this is a modified roadster. Looks to be an original mild steel sport (club) version. On the good side...no worries about bending the fork straight again. That steel can take a lot of bending without weakening. It's true that the brazed on guide wheel mount first appears in the 1950 catalog. While we have a very good account of the chronology of changes, we can't be very specific about the actual time they were put into production. The transfers on this bike are different than I've seen on 1950s models, but there do seem to be variations, especially in the early post war years. I have never seen a Raleigh with this style lug shape with a later than 1954 hub date. In 1954 Raleigh made it well known that they started using a harder "High Tensile" steel and they always placed stickers on the seat tube to make sure you knew. I'll guess they went from a 1010 to 1018 or 1020. Something like that. So, without the High Tensile sticker, I'll guess 1950-1953. Great bike. Looking forward to seeing the project come along.
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#22
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Thanks Big Chief! I just broke out the Dawn dish soap and buckets last night for my Gitane I'm currently working on so I plan to hit this one by the weekend.
I know it sounds like I'm overly concerned about the model/date but that's just because I like to know what I'm working on and part of the fun when not in the workshop
I know it sounds like I'm overly concerned about the model/date but that's just because I like to know what I'm working on and part of the fun when not in the workshop