nancy sv

I am so bummed - this thing is just really getting to me.

We spent three years cycling Alaska to Argentina. The main reason for the trip was just to be together as a family and explore the world - and it was great. But - my boys decided before we left that they wanted to break the world as the youngest to cycle the length of the Americas. We wrote to Guinness World Records, they sent us the guidelines and off we went.

We did everything on our part. We followed their guidelines, we documented the journey. We filed just like they instructed us to. And now - they've denied the boys because they decided to change their rules while we were on the road. They changed the rules of the game halfway through. You just don't do that to kids!

Anyway, we are appealing to Guinness World Records. This is scary stuff for me. I can climb 15,000-foot passes on my bike and battle headwinds from hell, but taking on a great big corporation like Guinness World Records scares the bejeezus outta me!

I feel I don't really have any choice in the matter - we've always taught our kids you have to fight for what you feel is right. Always before, we were battling Mother Nature. Now we're battling something way more difficult than nature - we're battling rules. R-U-L-E-S This is crazy.

If you would like to help us spread the word, we would be eternally grateful. Here's a post outlining some things we think will help, including a link to an online petition you can sign:

Here are a bunch of blog posts from other bloggers to help get the word out

Thanks so much!
Nancy

yiffzer

Nancy, sorry to hear about this. I wanted to let you know that your link didn't work -- it's been shortened.

zzOtherlandzz

I'm willing to sign, just point me in the right direction. Like yiffzer said the link is broke....

nancy sv

Thanks! I got both of the links fixed in the post above. I hate it when they shorten the links and then they don't work.

antokelly

i don't mean to be cruel about my reply but why the hell would you be bothered to get upset about your kids getting there names in a record book that's hardly ever read.it's not as big as deal as you make it out, in another few years do you think your kids will be bothered one way or another.the important think is you made the trip you know it your kids know it and one day your grandkids will know it as well ,nothing more important that that little fact. sorry if that seems crude but thats how i see it.

nancy sv

I totally see your point, but it's simply the recognition that GWR promised them. They are 13 years old and that's important to them.

Imagine this. You’re thirteen years old. You’ve been in Boy Scouts for years and have dreamed of the Eagle Award. At night, you curl up under your blanket with a flashlight to read and reread the guidelines for Eagle. You plan it all out – you know which merit badges you’ll work on; you know how you’ll move through the ranks.
By day you steadily plod through the massive requirements expected of you. You meet with merit badge counselors and go to summer camp and work on public service projects. You go on monthly campouts and learn to tie knots and build fires.



You have a blast doing it and learn a lot along the way, but it’s the thought of that Eagle award that keeps you going when the going gets tough.


And finally the day arrives. You’ve done it. You’ve completed every requirement listed in the handbook. You’ve gathered all your signatures. You’ve pedaled bikes and rowed boats and shot guns and learned to cook for your merit badges. It was an enormous task, and you’re bursting with pride at your final Court of Honor – you’ll finally get your reward. You’ll get your Eagle.


With your shoulders pulled back and your head held high, you walk into that room. This is going to be awesome! Three years of hard work… three years of staying true to your goal… and now that badge you’ll get will be proof of what you’ve done. You’ll proudly show it to the world and everyone will know exactly how hard you’ve worked. Now the whole world will know!


And then announcement comes. “We’re sorry, but we are no longer awarding the Eagle Scout. We congratulate you for a job well done and hope you enjoyed the process.”


That is exactly what Guinness World Records did to my 13-year-old twin sons.



Or this scenario


Imagine what it would be like to enter university as a freshman, full of hope, your sights set on your long term goal: Graduation and a degree in “doing hard things.” You’ve researched your field of study, you know what it’s going to take, and you know it’s not going to be easy. But, you know that in the end it will be worth the sacrifice and the uphill climb.


You dive in with enthusiasm and you work hard. You document your progress. You follow the prescribed course of study. You play by the rules that the controlling institution (your university) sets. You do everything “right,” and exceed every measurement, and everyone knows it.
Graduation day arrives!

You finish strong! Your friends, your family and all of those you’ve met along the way jump up and down and cheer as you walk across that stage. There’s not a dry eye in the place, you’ve done something amazing, something bigger than you thought possible, what’s more, you’re the first person in your family to do it.
But wait… where’s your diploma?

What?

The administration regrets to inform you that they won’t be issuing your diploma.

Why?

It’s not that you didn’t do the work, or didn’t pass the tests, or didn’t follow the rules. It’s not that you didn’t achieve greatness, they agree that you deserve it and you did everything they asked.

No, it’s just that somewhere in your third year of study they changed the rules, decided that because you were under eighteen they couldn’t reward your hard work, couldn’t acknowledge your accomplishment, and wouldn’t honor their end of the deal, even though you put in the time and the money and the work and honored your end.

Sure, you still did the work, you own the information and the accomplishment; nothing can change that. The diploma is just a piece of paper, but it matters to you, doesn’t it? It’s that piece of paper that represents your accomplishment to the rest of the world. Of course it matters.


This goes way beyond a piece of paper. It stands for integrity and honoring your word and not changing the rules in the middle of the game.


We're already turning into a society that's turning children into social pariahs, banning them from planes, certain restaurants and cinemas. Do we really need to start breaking promises to our children as well, particularly when they've gone to extraordinary lengths to hold up their end of the agreement? What message does this send to our young men and women about how to act in business and as adults?



Should we stop teaching our children that it's not OK to change the rules midway through a game of football or monopoly? Or are we giving them a false image of the way that the world works by teaching them to stick to the agreed rules as set out at the start of the game?These are excerpts from some of the blog posts that people have published.It's not just about a piece of paper - it's what that piece of paper stands for.

chrisch

Who gives Guinness any authority in recognizing a world record? Really, who cares what they think. If your kids broke the world record then they broke the world record. You don't need a corporate stamp of approval to make it official. I'm on their website and they are currently featuring the "Most people playing checkers underwater" world record. Wow.. I think your achievements are far above that.

nancy sv

I get that, but unfortunately, GWR is the only governing body to recognize most world records - both the silly and mundane AND the real, valid ones. Yes, they do have records on there that are absolutely hogwash and I wouldn't want to be associated with them in any way, shape, or form. BUT - they also have very credible records and that's what I think my boys have achieved.I wish there were two different organizations - one for the silly and kooky and another for the real accomplishments, but there simply isn't.

Scooper

Huh?

The kids started out with the expectation that if they followed the rules and documented the trip as prescribed in the rule book, they would be rewarded by having their names published in the Guinness world records book. I can completely sympathize with the OP and her sons who must be terribly disappointed by being denied the record because the rules changed during their trip.

It boils down to a matter of principle; they followed the rules but were denied the reward, and for a young person with expectations that's a bitter pill.

IceNine

I'm sure GWR has fine print somewhere that states that they reserve the right to change the rules as they see fit, whenever they see fit. So I think you're banging your head against the wall for no reason. I think your time is better spent fighting other battles. Those who understand the value of your tour won't be any more impressed or any less impressed by a certificate from GWR, or lack thereof. Those who don't get it won't be any more impressed by a world record that is later broken by someone else.

nancy sv

They probably do. That being said, we've taught our kids they need to fight for what they want. All along I thought that battle was in the form of fighting Mother Nature - of pedaling over 15,000-foot passes or fighting headwinds from hell. I didn't expect to have to battle GWR. But if I don't challenge this, what kind of message would that be sending to my kids? That it's OK to talk the talk but not walk the walk? We may not get what we want - official recognition from GWR - but at least we'll be able to say we tried. And THAT sounds exactly like what I was saying three years ago when we pedaled away from Prudhoe Bay.

Shifty

I feel so bad that you all had to face this disappointment, it seems cruel for kids that age, and you are such supportive parents.

In the 1980's I studied with Dr Edwards Deming who was a very smart statistician who studied and wrote books on management improvement for high performance. One of his key points was to eliminate awards, rewards and like incentives, the point is how they destroy morale of the organization and reduce productivity and quality. His point is that the award/reward kills morale of many more team members than are motivated since results are often made by a team, then rewards go to an individual. He also noted that the groups giving awards are very often flawed and biased, killing morale even worse. Others have written articles such as this title: Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise and Other Bribes.

You all had high expectations of a fair and transparent award process, I'm so sorry that was not the case. You and the kids made a heroic trip, your internal rewards and pride is most important.

nancy sv

We've talked with the kids about that a lot. The certificate is just the cherry on top. The real accomplishment has already been done. We don't want to make it seem like the cherry is more important that their achievement. That's why we're challenging this, but we won't take it to a lawsuit or anything. It's not worth it - it's the cherry on top. The icing on the cake. It would be nice, but it's not critical.

Rowan

Sorry to rain on your parade, but...

There are 13-yeear-old kids who have an expectation of a healthy, long life with their mothers and fathers. Many times over and over, the system fails to deliver them their basic human rights. They don't have the right to a family, a right to clean water, a right to food and a right to shelter.

You are making this sound like your boys are being denied a basic human right. They aren't. They've just had an all-expenses paid adventure for three years across the Americas where they should have observed the lack of rights other experience all along the way.

One of the things your boys will need to learn is that they have to pick their battles, that there are matters beyond their control, especially when it comes to big corporations and government which change their rules all the time.

Cherish the memories of your epic, and get on with life. If you need a piece of paper to make it stand for something, then I have to question your motivations in undertaking the trip in the first place.

Frankly, who's to say your kids are actually the youngest to undertake the ride? How do you know there wasn't a family back in the early 20th century who did it? For mine, having an entry like yours with GWR is almost meaningless.

There will be bigger, more serious and more worthwhile battles your boys will face in coming years.

And dare I say it, but I think you are just giving Larry further ammunition to shoot down your achievements.

nancy sv

You are absolutely right. I hope they will learn that it's worth battling the fights they feel worthy through this one. For a 13-year-old kid, this one is worth fighting. I'm sure they'll have to pick and choose many times in their lives ahead and I'll support them whenever they feel it's worth the battle.

zoltani

axolotl

From your blog:

July 25 – received an email stating they had denied our claim: “Unfortunately, we at Guinness World Records, have decided to rest this record, meaning we have decided to no longer recognise the category as a record, due to the fact that the record would reach an age where a person would no longer be able to break it or attempt (i.e. a two-year old attempting to do it) and as it would become limited under these terms, we choose to to no longer recognise it as a category.”

Although I support your decision to undertake this trip with your kids and applaud your accomplishments, I honestly think that Guinness's rules change makes a lot of sense. I suspect it was prompted by ever-younger kids going on solo sailing trips and Guinness' desire to not indirectly encourage such attempts. I realize that your kids' accomplishment was somewhat different, but I think Guinness' logic applies to their situation, as well. I also agree with some of the comments posted here by Rowan and several others.

And if the troll LM posts here again, just ignore him.

Rowan

With all due respect, this is not a battle worth fighting in my opinion. The battle really worth fighting now is making your sons understand that they aren't entitled to everything they want just because they participated in a privileged three-year adventure that 99.99999% of the world's kids don't have access to.

They aren't entitled to the recognition you (and they) yearn because the rules as dictated now by GWR say they aren't. And as axolotl rightly points out, there are sound reasons why the rules were changed.

My main concern (as if it is of any importance to you) is that the feeling of entitlement now engendered in them will lead them into future battles that they need not fight, and that may have much worse outcomes than not appearing on GWR's records lists.

nancy sv

I guess the thing that's really bothering me is that I'm feeling the exact same things you are saying. Although there is a huge part of me saying the boys earned it and GWR is wrong and should do something about it, there is another part that is saying exactly what you all are saying. It's trivial. It's just a piece of paper. etc....

BUT - I gave my kids the choice and they both opted to challenge it. That's the biggest reason right there. If they had said, "let it rest" I would have. But they didn't. They want to see what they can do to reverse this.

Way back, 3 years ago before we set out the door, I said, "We may not make it, but if we don't try we KNOW we won't make it." Now I'm saying the exact same thing. If was a certificate for ME, there is no doubt I would just let it rest and know that I had done what I set out to do. But when it's your kids and THEY want to challenge it... well, you challenge it. Or, I guess I should say, *I* challenge it. Some parents might just say, "Tough luck kid."

drmweaver2

Actually, that happened to me.

Unfortunately, it's a major life lesson and "fair" doesn't apply to life lessons.

I'm sympathetic and somewhat empathic about the situation. But the lesson is simply tell the boys to "Suck it up and drive on" as they say in the Army. GRR specifically states in the application package they send you when applying for records that they are the sole arbiter of recognizing "records". Your boys aren't the only ones who've run into this - solo sailing around the world no longer has a "youngest to accomplish this" record.

Sorry. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Enjoy the accomplishment, the time you spent together and encourage the boys to do the same. Ultimately, that's "the record".

nancy sv

You are so absolutely right.

drmweaver2

I should have included this in the last post....
When my mother's record breaking computer score for a silly game was uploaded to a commercial software company's website, the score was rejected. No explanation. No response to emails to tech support or customer service. Finally, when a snail mail letter was sent, we got a response - toughsk* sh*tsk*. Within two days, a record breaking score of 100 times what my mother had tried to upload was shown on the Internet Records webpage for the game - the high score magically went from hundreds of milliions to billions. Game Over.

My Dad, without telling Mom, went out and got a personalized trophy for her. He arranged a surprise family dinner and awarded it to her there. Everyone in the place heard the "presentation speech" and applauded. The restaurant manager heard it and sent over champagne and then when we went to pay the bill said that it have been paid for by the restaurant owner who happened to be eating there that night. Neither the owner nor the manager had never said a thing as we ordered our meals and post-food beverages.

That trophy still sits prooudly on the mantle years after she died. We all mentioned how proud we were of her accomplishment, not the trophy, during her last hours.

As I said, it's not about recognition by others. You and the boys know what they've accomplished. Don't allow GRR's actions to tarnish the facts as you and the bys know them.

Added/edit: btw, my "denied" degree wasn't a BS but a PhD - after 4 years of PhD candidacy. I still don't have the PhD and am now a perpetual ABD (All but Dissertation) academic as the "rules change" means I would have to start over completely in my mid-50s. Technically, I'm not even an ABD though I'd passed my written and oral exams; the rules change meant I would have to retake old classes/take new classes AND retake both exams. The system is what it is and though I long defined myself by my academic accomplishment at one point, I came to realize that bearaucracy has no heart or soul.

It's all "relatively meaningless" except when talking finances.

gpsblake

Funny, I own several years worth of Guinness Book of World Records and not one of them has a category for the "youngest rider" to complete the Trans-Am highway. Now, if someone could point where this record actually EXISTED, she may have an argument. As long as her kids and not Nancy get recognized.

But the Guinness Book of world records is mostly publicity stunts and retire "world records" every year and invent a whole host of new "world records".. They do this in order to sell new books each year.

Cyclesafe

Here we go again. Nancy SV again appealing to the choir for validation of her decision to combine her hobby with child rearing. What's the encore? Don't expect that they'll be able to ride this pony forever.

BTW, I met your husband and boys at a reception for the inaugural ACA Underground Railroad tour in Ripley OH in April 2007. The locals were debating calling child protective services, but the police officer present was counseling that there was nothing he would do because no abuse was apparent. Not everyone thinks that what Nancy SV did with her family was a good idea. Just sayin'.

tcs

On a completely different board for a completely different activity I read a post some years ago from a fellow bitterly complaining that the Guinness record for a certain category, entered in 1992, was wrong and that he'd actually set a more extreme record in 1973. He went on to document his 35 year struggle to get Guinness to recognize the world record rightfully belonged to him.

It was sad, really.