Nihog

Dear all vintage experts!
I have acquired yet another "mystery" bike, or at least to me. The only reason to buy it (for 70$) was that it is finally a steel bike in my size range (being 194cm, or 6,4)
As you can see on pictures below, it is an Italian Basso of some kind. Or is it? I have during the day grown more and more skeptical and wonder if I have been fooled.

Here is what I know:
It is a large frame, 65, perhaps 66cm C/T (I have never learned to measure correctly..) Clean frame without fork it weighs 2,6kg
Seat post diameter is 26,2 something rather. Absolutely closer to 26 that 27mm
Paint job seems original or at least old and worn, its metallic red. It has paint of same color up in tubes in bottom bracket and inside headset tube. Fork that came with it is chrome as are the rear dropouts as you can see.
Bottom bracket has NO serial number. The only stamped number is "64". I assume now that is actually the "official" size number?
There are no markings on rear dropouts (where I feel there should be?), no markings on the seat stays up at the top (where I feel they should be?), no markings on the front fork, nothing on headset, nothing on any tube that I can see?!

-I HAVE found two names/stamps in total: On the rear brake bridge center it says: "Gipiemme mod. dep." (see photo), and on the crown-race it says Ofmega (and I figured out they are Ofmega Master that seem to 1980s?)

Obviously, stickers states Basso, but I am starting to suspect its fake?! If not, what frame could this possibly be? I have considered several models but for starters have not found anyone in this size.

So, what do you experts say? What more should I look for, what/where can I read more? It is all just another mystery BUT I am particularly excited now because this bike will really fit me and I cant wait to find some parts for it and go for a ride!! I am thinking Shimano 600 and I have not problems with DT shifters.

Thanks,
N.

biig frame


NO serial number here..

stickers seem old

not a mark on it

Gipiemme?

dont know this black sticker. Def. not "columbus" sticker? Seem to state "tubi" something

26,.. something but not much more

tube also says "64" but no more marks

steve sumner

tubing was called Flash. not sure what it is actually made of but was commonly used on
all the low end models of the upper end Italian brands during the mid 80s

jdawginsc 

I don't think the components are necessarily an indicator. The tubage is likely indicating the Oria TT 09 set, which would have been found on the later lower end set. I do not recall seeing a scalloped, non-pantographed seat stay cap on a Basso; nor do I recall cut-outs in the lugs like those. Further, though it is hard to see, most Basso's from that era (80s) have proprietary Basso drop outs.

That said, I have seen three guide and two guide iterations on the top tube; pump peg and no pump peg. The lack of a front derailleur braze on puts it prior to 1980 if a Basso.


I am going to lean no, this is not a Basso that I have come across. However, it looks pretty well made. Maybe an Olmo or Montagner, though most models of those would have had engravings somewhere.

Here is a similar era TT 09 bike.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-red...EAAOSwi5VeK~wM

Nihog

Thanks!
Yes I can now clearly see that it is that sticker "Tubi Oria TT 0.9" Found this page talking about Oria in wider terms with a photo of a Montager with same sticker and dated to 1986. I will start to look there and see if there can be anyone with a catalogue from that era with Basso.
https://italiancyclingjournal.blogsp...-building.html

Also, yes that Ebay post does look very very similar in all ways besides a different fork, headset and perhaps most important very different rear brake bridge (is that the correct term?). Mine is a different format all together and stamped with Gipiemme.

I looked all over the frame again now and it really does not look like its been repainted, but the decals on it are flaking of in a way that seems "cheap" making me think they are not original. However, if this was a low end bike in the first place, as some seem to hint Oria frames were, then stickers might have been a simple set from the get go. It is the lack of any stamps and any serial number that disturbs me the most and without it, I dont think I can approach Basso directly to ask about this frame.

N.

Ps also, looking at all catalogues I can find, I dont see a single Bass frame that was available in this size (64 or even more), could they have "outsourced" production on large frames to somebody??

jdawginsc 

This is very possible. It's an odd little (big) guy without the pantographs. However, well-built frames like yours seems to be can be great riding frames no matter the tubing.

The stickers look more early 80s to me.

Nihog

UPDATE:
I think I figured it out!
I do think it is a Basso, but the lowest level one. It was sold here in Sweden by multiple outlets during a period 1986-1989 (including a store equivalent of a Target or Walmart?!) It is a version of the Basso Arenaccia. This bike was made both in Columbus Zeta and Oria TT 0.9. It came with crankset and headset from Ofmega. Hubs from Miche on rims of av Record Series Professional Hd 120. Deraileurs could be also Ofmega (Mistral) composite version. Modolo Corsa brakes and ITM stem and handlebars.
Once you helped with the tubing name I was able to find several pages with some details here and there (in Swedish) One of them was this happy camper who found one in good shape, although made into a fixie:C K R M: juni 2008
That one also lacks the stamps on the tubing with the Basso name.

I have not been able to find any catalogues that shows above setup but references to the line up on a vintage bike page with credible information.

For now, lets considered this one solved and I will return with photos once I found some parts for the bike, although I dont think I will go for the above original setup but something, well nicer, or stuff I can find at least.

Ride on!
N.

Mac.marc

I was very happy to find your post!
I just bought a Basso bike without typical Basso engravings. At first I had a suspicion that it was a fake version. But my daughter really wanted it and I couldn't say no.
It has the exact same markings as your frame and the frame on the website. The underside of the bottom bracket and the fork also look like in your photo. Mine is all white and with Zeta tubes. I'll be happy to send more photos later.
Did you find any more information? Or even a few links to further information?

unworthy1

this is a link to one of Mark Bulgier's catalog scans for a model "Arrenacia" which in 198X was built with Columbus SL but was a "tre-tubi" with the 3 main tubes being SL. Also was not offered over 61cm by this USA distributor. The more price-y GAP model maxed out at 62cm.
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Basso/2.jpg

another page from their 1981 catalog, the Arrenacia was full Zeta that year and had a gruppo of cheaper Rino components:
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalo...Basso81/11.jpg

In any case this with Oria may have been a bit later era and perhaps that slightly heavier tubeset a better choice than SL tre-tubi, certainly a nicer tube than Zeta, IMO.
Any any Basso should give you a fine ride, especially for the bargain price you paid!

Mac.marc

Thank you for the links.
The bike frames shown do not correspond to the frame above and also not to my Basso frame. The frame above and my frame are missing the engravings on the frame and on the fork.
It would be nice if you could find a catalog or information about the Basso frames without engraving.

unworthy1

I only find what there is (without major mojo skills): there's 3 catalog scans thanks to Mark Bulgier, this latest one from 1992 has no model without some stay cap panto unless it's a fastback seat cluster:
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Basso92/

Nihog

hi there. Glad you found this post useful and my investigations linked to it. I am riding it all the time and it’s great.

now about more data etc. No I have really tried to verify more but have only bits from bike gurus around here in Sweden, including people in historical bike society. They have confirmed that these frames were around way back and that they were simpler versions of nicer Basso.

one thing I have discovered (and I really need pictures of your frame to see that part) is that the frame lugs and that “heart” symbol there in front up on the downtube is exactly like Vicini frames of the era. Not sure that means anything really but just that I think someone noted in the thread that it was not a familiar Basso look?

this picture is a Vicini from 1985 I think





and btw. I promised a picture of my bike in running order. I fitted it with Campagnolo centaur 10 speed and Vento wheels and thus made in considerably newer and not at all period correct. First had a complete Campagnolo Victory group on it, very period correct, but got a crazy deal on a full group of Centaur so rebuilt again. Man that modern Campy stuff is great.



Please excuse the terrible rear fender and horrible plastic pedals…was only a temp thing I promise. Now have Campagnolo Vento wheels on also.

jdawginsc 

Definitely some variables from Euro versus American market for many of the Italian/French makes. I could definitely see Vicini, Basso, type marquees farming out production of lower level frames.

unworthy1

Yep that happened (and still happens) quite frequently.
I did a little research and Vicini is located in Emilia-Romagna whereas Basso is in Veneto, not exactly "kissing cousin" neighbors, but also not SO far removed that there might be some partnership possible. Since Basso is still in business maybe they could answer a question (if asked politely, of course).

choff

Thanks for the thread Nihog,
I found it very helpful also.
I have a bit of a mystery myself and hoping the you and the experts could assist also. I too suspect a fake basso. However, as this is my first post I cannot post photos for some reason. How can i get photos to you and/or the group?

The observations:
59cm frame
120mm rear stay spacing
seat tube is a tight 27.2mm (maybe less)
Paint job also seems original like yours
Fork that came with it has chrome lugs
Bottom bracket has no serial number like yours. The only stamped number is "59".
There are no markings on rear dropouts or pantoraphing anywhere on frame or fork - except for a columbus dove embossed on the fork steerer
There is what appears to be an original columbus decal on the frame and it would appear to be columbus tre-tubi


The more weird observations 'for a basso':
the rear stay caps are not pantographed and look british (ive only found one image only that matches - a gold plated basso)
frame lugs dont look cast or finished filed
lugs have the spade motifs
cable guides at BB are top mount
seat stay bridge is unusual in its shape and very non-basso
chain stay bridge also different to other basso
top tube has two cable clamps rather than 3
rear d guide on chain stay is top mounted rather than bottom like my other basso
like yours, the decals say "Basso" but the typeset looks every so slightly different than what I can see on other frames online - especially if you look at the 'A'. The full decal might have read "Basso" in large script and then "Campione Del Mondo" also like the gold plated basso i found online.

As far as I understand, Basso bikes were really only commercially available starting in about 78. With the shape and profile of the fork; the BB top mounted cable guides and some other quirks, this would appear maybe a 78-80 frame.

I have a mid 80s basso and the quality is excellent. It has the pantographing, a serial number, the correct seat and chain stay bridge etc. But this blue basso is decidedly poorer quality. I have all my parts ready to go, so it could still be a good little cafe bike, but if its a dud i might not be as happy to build it.

Your thoughts?

Insidious C. 

Of the pics in your photo album which one are you asking about? The blue one?

choff

Yes! I dont even know how they got there!
the blue one is mine.
I provided the pictures of the gold one i found because the logo appears the same and the rear seat stay caps seem similar also.
The orange basso picture i provided is the only one i found with top mounted cable guides on BB.

jdawginsc 

The rear triangle looks shifted in that one photo.

That looks like like a quality frame, but I don’t know if it is an early Basso. Some features look like it and others like the SS caps do not.

Id leave it as is and ride.

choff

Thanks jdawginsc

What are the features that standout to you that you say its a quality frame?

Basso's are beautiful bikes. But they are niche and there doesnt seem to be a great record of the history anywhere. The earliest catalogue i could find was 1981. I am hoping some others will chime in to.

jdawginsc 

The dropout stays/fork blade construction, cut out lugs, reinforced brake bridge and a rather elegant pencil seat stay treatment at the seat tube lug. It’s not just welded on there.

If it is a Basso I would be sort of surprised, but it could be an earlier one.

Do the dropouts have any markings (campy, Gipiemme, Simplex, SunTour, Shimano, etc...)?

choff

Thanks mate ,

yes that SS and fork treatment, as well as the lug profile looks very similar (if not the same) to that gold basso I posted in my album. The dropouts have don’t have any markings at all.
my other basso has campy markings on dropouts and front forks .
if it is a basso, and an early one, I wonder if they may have just omitted any markings and serial numbering ?

jdawginsc 

Could very well be. Before the became big, they might have cottage industrial paint/decals