ZHVelo

Capitalism is an absolute sham.

wle

none of the original post makes sense.
if there are bargains, why should
i just can;t go on

responding to nonsense
i can't

(opening craigslist to look for cheap bikes, now i am inspired
actually with lockdown + spring, people are riding bikes AND people are buying craigslist stuff like it;s going out of style
actually i thought it was going out of style
but no
craigslist ho!)

wle

stephr1

Also, 3 words - "free market capitalism".

If you don't like the price, don't buy (or, don't buy from that "dealer)". If enuf people don't buy, supply goes up, demand goes down, along with prices. That is, unless there is collusion or some kind of "cartel" involved

ZHVelo

Can people please stop talking about economics...

This isn't a free market. There is no true free market. For however weird OP is, one thing was made clear and that is that this is about local deals. Which drastically limits the competition aspect. What is happening here is nothing but rent-seeking (these hypothetical pensioners are manipulating the environment in which market activity is taking place). The next thing OP mentions is uninformed buyers, meaning we do not have a situation where both parties have the same level of information in the market exchange, another violation of the idea of a competitive market.

This in practice is no different than buying tickets to events cheap well in advance and then selling them for much more shortly before - what economic value have you created? None.

livedarklions

BS. Your freshman econ 101 is pretty rusty.

The information is readily available--bicycles are not complicated so information asymmetry isn't really a factor, and rent seeking is really not practical even in a small market as barriers to entry are low to non-existent. Anyone who wants to put in the time to do this can do so.

Those assumptions are of "perfect competition", BTW, not free markets, which just means that prices are set by supply and demand without authoritative regulation. Perfect competition is an idealized state as any economist will acknowledge.

The comparison to ticket resales is absurd. Tickets are a product where literally nothing can be done to change it that won't decrease the value. A lot of these guys are taking bikes that aren't functional or only marginally so, and taking the time and materials necessary to produce useable bikes. And even if they are not improving them, gathering them together so someone can look at many at a time might, by itself be a service people are willing to pay a little more for.

theDirtyLemon

Actually, the ticket analogy would be accurate if these vile pensioners had bought rare bikes at wholesale direct from the manufacturer and then waited thirty to fifty years to resell them after those bikes were no longer available.
​​

308jerry

Get up earlier then the OP does to buy up all the bikes on CL. If you really want to put these OP all out of business including the ticket scalpers and bike peddlers buy all the bikes and all the tickets you can.... Then just give them all away. Problem solved... Nobody makin money...

theDirtyLemon

Anyway, the counter-argument to the OP isn't "It's okay because this is a free market"--that's just economics-as-faux-morality BS which justifies nothing--it's that their complaint is unrealistic and inflammatory. The used bike market simply does not operate as described. The OP sounds slightly hysterical, frankly, and I wonder what happened to them to get 'em so worked up.

mrMike88

I'm going to respond as a slight tangent: I regularly browse Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist and OfferUp to see what's available and to see if there's something I Have To Have Today. So far I've managed to avoid buying anything but it keeps me aware of what's out there for my next bike. Recently (in the last month - go figure) I've noticed that the number of bikes is way down; obviously lots of people are filling in spare time in this gorgeous spring weather by getting some of these bikes and maybe even riding them around. (I've also seen about a 300% increase in bike traffic on the trails and near-empty streets in the Dallas area. ) I only hope that this trend continues (not the coronavirus trend, but the "let's go ride a bike" trend), because this area, while boasting lots of bike trails, could use a boatload more, and the more people riding on them the better.

'02 nrs

no problem as long as Uncle Sam is paid.

ZHVelo

Nonsense. It is not readily available, especially if you look at your local ads and the prices are all inflated due to the effect OP is describing.

Stop kidding yourself, there is no such thing as a free market. If supply and demand were all that mattered, then people like OP is describing would not exist. They manipulate supply. The "free market" is an idealized state fetishized by materialistic, selfish narcissists.

Gathering them so people can compare many at a time? That is the best you can do for supposed value? Yea, alright then.

ZHVelo

I don't have a problem with people making that money per se. OP does. At the end of the day it is people's own fault if they allow this to happen.

I merely question this blind cry for "muh da free market". If you want the economy to work for society, you need to remove rent-seeking like is done here. Despite what the other dude may be claiming, no value is added here (OP is specifically talking about people who just buy and sell, not people who buy and repair/improve).

livedarklions

Nice question begging you got there--if the prices are high, you say it's because of these people, rather than these people have been attracted to doing this because the prices of used bikes were high in that area to begin with.

You seriously believe that one can't learn most of what one needs to know about bicycles with a small amount of effort? That's ridiculous. Information asymmetries occur when the seller can know what's in the product and the buyer can't (or vice verse). This ain't that.

I don't think people like the OP are describing do exist--supply of junk bikes is always so high everywhere I've lived that the notion of manipulating this market is just ridiculous. There's usually a couple of bikes at just about any garage sale I ever see, for example.

And yeah, I bought a $100 bike from a guy who bought up junk bikes and fixed them up when I went to his house to look at a different bike he had on CL. It was very useful to have a range of choices there, saved me a lot of time in schlepping around to look at other bikes.

So are you proposing to make this practice illegal or are you just going to liquidate these nefarious rascals after the revolution?

Biketiger

Most people don't ride bikes. For those who do - who knows how many the majority has? Check out the threads on this forum : How many bikes do you have? and look at the number of bikes people have listed in their signatures. If you think most bike owners only own ONE bike, just stop and consider how many different types of bikes there are: mountain bikes, road bikes, gravel bikes, commuter bikes, old steel bikes, modern carbon bikes, fixed gear/single speed bikes. We love bikes!

Biketiger

[QUOTE='02 nrs;21431321]no problem as long as Uncle Sam is paid.

Since ebay charges state sales tax on used bikes shipped from across the country - YOU ARE RIGHT!

Biketiger

"Most people only want one bike." Not so for those who love bikes and use bikes regularly. Your signature lists three. Do you have any poles, surveys, any data at all to support this claim? You wouldn't be in that group including most forum members. Just check out the threads - How many bikes do you have? You'll be surprised.

ZHVelo

And that is your problem. You cannot argue making crucial assumptions (in this case that the OP is wrong). Either we take what OP has stated as given and debate it, or you straight up say "these people don't exist" and then that is your argument, and your only argument. And it would most likely be true.

And if OP is right and these people exist, one does not even need to go into if the market is competitive or not, because it most certainly is not efficient. Buyers tend to look at specific times (when they need a bike, when they have time). These people check every day. They are using time arbitrage and a market with arbitrage is not a good one.

You want to ridicule OP for believing such people exist and can have a large enough impact locally? Be my guest, but don't pretend this is some sort of "free market" outcome that should be celebrated.

sean.hwy

Since bikes are so cheap anyways it does not bother me. Simple enough to just buy brand new last years model bike at a discount.


Houses and cars though :/ Too many flippers. It's impossible to get a fixer up here in the Bay Area. For the price of fixer up and what a normal person ( not flipper, contractor ) it would cost more than just buying house that needs nothing.

livedarklions

You completely backpedaled from your original argument (my reason for saying they can't exist was based on economics 101) so I'm not going to bother with it, but I can't get past what an absurd statement that is.

So, basically, no one anywhere should buy and sell used goods? Or does that apply to all goods? Are you going to eliminate all retail? All wholesale distribution? All commodities markets?

theDirtyLemon

ZHVelo;
"Nonsense. . . . If supply and demand were all that mattered, then people like OP is describing would not exist. ...."

The people OP described DON'T exist.
If you want to discuss economic policy and the realities of commerce at a national level, then sure, you've got a point. But that would be a pretty weird direction to take this conversation about neighborhood second-hand bike sales.
​​​

branko_76 

I didn't say "most forum members", I said "most people", as in the general public.

Sy Reene

I gotta say.. always intrigued by the word "dickering" and its roots.

brian3069

I'm close to having a monopoly on the used bicycle market.

Darth Lefty 

If you think used bikes are expensive you’d be crushed by the prices on new ones

Biketiger

Originally Posted by Biketiger View Post
"Most people only want one bike." Not so for those who love bikes and use bikes regularly...Do you have any poles, surveys, any data at all to support this claim?

I quoted you exactly Branko: SEE ABOVE and asked you for evidence to support your statement. How do you know how many bikes MOST PEOPLE OWN or WANT???