An Italian Peugeot?
#1
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
An Italian Peugeot?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/velo-course....c100047.m2108
Sort of my size, too...
Italianesque geometry
Thron tubes...hmm. The mystery thickens
Umm...what is the RSX derailleur doing there? And how the heck does it work with Ergos...?
Ugly bar wrappage, but Mavic rims, and Miche headset
Vetta and Campy combo chair...
Not sure what bars (look like Giros) and stem, but the somewhat elusive and very reliable Avanti brifters!
Sort of my size, too...
Italianesque geometry
Thron tubes...hmm. The mystery thickens
Umm...what is the RSX derailleur doing there? And how the heck does it work with Ergos...?
Ugly bar wrappage, but Mavic rims, and Miche headset
Vetta and Campy combo chair...
Not sure what bars (look like Giros) and stem, but the somewhat elusive and very reliable Avanti brifters!
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#2
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
For the record, my first bike was a Peugeot U810FXhsjdhgkjdgskjhr310 (can't remember), but I am really not a fan.
...but if this was half the shipping, I'd have a tough time passing it by...it's sort of quirky cool.
...but if this was half the shipping, I'd have a tough time passing it by...it's sort of quirky cool.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 11,674
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1372 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,751 Times
in
938 Posts
What suggests that the OP's Peugeot is Italian? The head tube sticker says "Made in France". ???
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
#4
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,393 Times
in
2,092 Posts
Likes For cudak888:
#5
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
correct!
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#6
I’m a little Surly
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Near the district
Posts: 2,422
Bikes: Two Cross Checks, a Karate Monkey, a Disc Trucker, and a VO Randonneur
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times
in
647 Posts
I looked at a Thron tubed Peugeot a couple nights back
#7
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,784
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3587 Post(s)
Liked 3,400 Times
in
1,934 Posts
#8
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
It's just a really odd conglomeration for a Peugeot. I like it, and wish it was closer and I would be tempted to jump.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
Likes For jdawginsc:
#9
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,393 Times
in
2,092 Posts
This had to have been a home-market model, right? I see references to Competition 1000 and 2000's in the 1996 catalog, but there's a gap in catalog references between 1992 and '96 that this probably falls in.
-Kurt
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
One has to admit, it takes a few minutes to wrap one's head around the idea of a Columbus tubed Peugeot with internal lugs - plus the Campag components.
This had to have been a home-market model, right? I see references to Competition 1000 and 2000's in the 1996 catalog, but there's a gap in catalog references between 1992 and '96 that this probably falls in.
-Kurt
This had to have been a home-market model, right? I see references to Competition 1000 and 2000's in the 1996 catalog, but there's a gap in catalog references between 1992 and '96 that this probably falls in.
-Kurt
It's not internally lugged but internally brazed, like those early 1980s Carbolite models. It probably is European market, as Procycle was building the mid-range North American market road models with True Temper in the mid-1990s. However, Columbus wasn't new to Peugeot or even the North American market models. Columbus was used as early as 1986, with an SLX tubeset on the USA market PX. If the presence use of a Columbus tubeset makes it Italian, then I guess all those boom era PX10 and PR10 were English, by virtue of their Reynolds tubesets.
#11
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,393 Times
in
2,092 Posts
-Kurt
#14
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,030
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
654 Posts
Nothing Magic Or New - Brazing Alloy Preforms
Preformed shapes of alloy brazing material are placed inside and outside the tubes then furnace or hearth brazed.
In the early 80's Peugeot, Motobecane and Gitane started making frames for their lower priced bikes that way. The marketoid BS claim was that it was better than a lugged frame. The real reason was to cut costs to compete against the deluge of cheap Asian hitting the European market.
It wasn't a new process. For many years metal furniture made of tubing and lots of other products were made with brazing preforms. Even some cheap department store bikes were made that way.
I've never seen any frame failures on those internally brazed French made bikes.... But I'm a belt and suspenders (braces) kinda guy... I like lugs.
Getting back to Italian equipped Peugeots, I have 3:
A 1988 Peugeot Chorus with a Reynolds 753 frame and a 1st generation Campy Chorus gruppo, a 1989 Peugeot Chorus 753 with the same tubing and components and a 1989 Peugeot SLX. The SLX was a former team bike from the UK with a mixed Campy gruppo and a Columbus SLX frame.
Work in progress...
During the mid to late 80's Peugeot made a number of models with various grades of Columbus tubing (Aelle, Chromor. etc) plus Campy Victory gruppos. Most were made for sale in markets other than the US.
verktyg
In the early 80's Peugeot, Motobecane and Gitane started making frames for their lower priced bikes that way. The marketoid BS claim was that it was better than a lugged frame. The real reason was to cut costs to compete against the deluge of cheap Asian hitting the European market.
It wasn't a new process. For many years metal furniture made of tubing and lots of other products were made with brazing preforms. Even some cheap department store bikes were made that way.
I've never seen any frame failures on those internally brazed French made bikes.... But I'm a belt and suspenders (braces) kinda guy... I like lugs.
Getting back to Italian equipped Peugeots, I have 3:
A 1988 Peugeot Chorus with a Reynolds 753 frame and a 1st generation Campy Chorus gruppo, a 1989 Peugeot Chorus 753 with the same tubing and components and a 1989 Peugeot SLX. The SLX was a former team bike from the UK with a mixed Campy gruppo and a Columbus SLX frame.
Work in progress...
During the mid to late 80's Peugeot made a number of models with various grades of Columbus tubing (Aelle, Chromor. etc) plus Campy Victory gruppos. Most were made for sale in markets other than the US.
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Last edited by verktyg; 09-07-20 at 04:48 AM.
Likes For verktyg:
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
In the early 80's Peugeot, Motobecane and Gitane started making frames for their lower priced bikes that way. The marketoid BS claim was that it was better than a lugged frame. The real reason was to cut costs to compete against the deluge of cheap Asian hitting the European market,,,.I've never seen any frame failures on those internally brazed French made bikes....
Internal brazing had one other significant advantage over lugs, in that it allowed visual inspection of the quality of the joint. With lugs, the joint is hidden underneath the lug. It's impossible to determine the penetration without very sophisticated, expensive and time consuming equipment. With the lugless brazing systems, the larger fillet is on the inside of the tube but the amount and characteristics of the reflow on the outside of the tube allowed inspectors to gauge the quality of the internal fillet.
This allowed Peugeot to catch the vast majority of defective frames before they left the factory and before Peugeot invested the time and money in painting and assembly of the bicycle. It saved them a lot of money not just manufacturing but in warranty claims. This ability to visually inspect the quality of the joint is a big factor in why you've never seen any failures.
#16
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,796
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1392 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times
in
836 Posts
Internal brazing had one other significant advantage over lugs, in that it allowed visual inspection of the quality of the joint. With lugs, the joint is hidden underneath the lug. It's impossible to determine the penetration without very sophisticated, expensive and time consuming equipment. With the lugless brazing systems, the larger fillet is on the inside of the tube but the amount and characteristics of the reflow on the outside of the tube allowed inspectors to gauge the quality of the internal fillet.
This allowed Peugeot to catch the vast majority of defective frames before they left the factory and before Peugeot invested the time and money in painting and assembly of the bicycle. It saved them a lot of money not just manufacturing but in warranty claims. This ability to visually inspect the quality of the joint is a big factor in why you've never seen any failures.
This allowed Peugeot to catch the vast majority of defective frames before they left the factory and before Peugeot invested the time and money in painting and assembly of the bicycle. It saved them a lot of money not just manufacturing but in warranty claims. This ability to visually inspect the quality of the joint is a big factor in why you've never seen any failures.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#17
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
It's not internally lugged but internally brazed, like those early 1980s Carbolite models. It probably is European market, as Procycle was building the mid-range North American market road models with True Temper in the mid-1990s. However, Columbus wasn't new to Peugeot or even the North American market models. Columbus was used as early as 1986, with an SLX tubeset on the USA market PX. If the presence use of a Columbus tubeset makes it Italian, then I guess all those boom era PX10 and PR10 were English, by virtue of their Reynolds tubesets.
I just thought it sort of unique.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#18
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,030
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
654 Posts
Peugeots With Columbus Tubing
Not implying that it's Italian. I just didn't recall Peugeot journeying from Reynolds/Vitus to Columbus...granted, my experience in European models was non-existent until recently...And Peugeots always used Campy on the top line non-market models..
I just thought it sort of unique.
I just thought it sort of unique.
Dolomites model from the 1989 French catalog
Athena model from the 1989 US Catalog. Same bike as the Dolomites, just different color and model name. Peugeot did that a lot for different markets.
CX 700 Vanoise model from the 1990 German catalog
As I mentioned above, in the mid 80's Peugeot produced a number of models for the European markets with Reynolds 531 or Super Vitus 980 frames and Campagnolo Victory gruppos.
verktyg :50
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
#19
Edumacator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 6,803
Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...
Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2439 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times
in
1,964 Posts
Interesting. I was obviously way out of the Peugeot loop!
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 462 Times
in
270 Posts
I can't say I like this as much as fillet brazing or lugs, I imagine that its strong enough, but having the connection on the inside of the tube does make the tube have more leverage over the brass that it would if the brass was outside the tube.
Thanks for the info!
#21
verktyg
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 4,030
Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1980s DeRosa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA SBDU Team Pro
Mentioned: 207 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1036 Post(s)
Liked 1,238 Times
in
654 Posts
Lugless Joints With Preforms
Interesting.
I can't say I like this as much as fillet brazing or lugs, I imagine that its strong enough, but having the connection on the inside of the tube does make the tube have more leverage over the brass that it would if the brass was outside the tube.
Thanks for the info!
I can't say I like this as much as fillet brazing or lugs, I imagine that its strong enough, but having the connection on the inside of the tube does make the tube have more leverage over the brass that it would if the brass was outside the tube.
Thanks for the info!
This is a cutaway of a Peugeot head tube showing the internal and external fillets.
T-Mar makes a good point that I hadn't considered in his post above. The process makes it easy to inspect the brazed joints.
John E cutouts in lugs do make it easier to see where the molten brazing material is going and to aid in penetration. It can be hard to see what's going on with the brightness of the flame and and the hot tubes especially when there is a lot of molten flux in the area..
Excess flux can prevent filling of gaps at the "shoreline" of lugs. When the cooled hardened flux is removed gaps can appear.
One solution is to use an Inline Gas Fluxer which mixes the flux with the oxygen and acetylene before it reaches the flame. This leaves much less flux to clean up and gives a better view of what's happening at the joint.
verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....
Chas. ;-)
Likes For verktyg:
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Here's a video of bicycle manufacture at the Procycle facility in Canada. While the bicycles shown being manufactured in the video are CCM (which Procycle had acquired in 1983), the brazing process, shown briefly starting at about at 0:47, is the exact same process used in the manufacture of Peugeot lugless frames.
Procycle had been manufacturing entry level, Canadian market, Peugeot since 1978 and in 1988 started lugless manufacture using Peugeot's technology, know as DBS (Direct Brazing System) in Canada and PBS (Peugeot Brazing System) in France. At the end of 1990, when Peugeot USA abandoned the USA market, Procycle stepped in and provided Peugeot for both the Canadian and USA markets until expiration of their licence agreement in 2001.
Procycle had been manufacturing entry level, Canadian market, Peugeot since 1978 and in 1988 started lugless manufacture using Peugeot's technology, know as DBS (Direct Brazing System) in Canada and PBS (Peugeot Brazing System) in France. At the end of 1990, when Peugeot USA abandoned the USA market, Procycle stepped in and provided Peugeot for both the Canadian and USA markets until expiration of their licence agreement in 2001.
Likes For T-Mar:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
On the down side, lug windows reduce the surface area of the joint between the lug and tube. Consequently, it's not as strong. This is a concern, particularly with non-mitred tubes, which reduces the available contact area even more. As a result, lugs used with non-mitred tubes are usually windowless or have very small windows. To maximize joint area, windowed lugs should always used mitred tubes and for maximum joint strength it's critical to get the flow to fill the mitre area.
Likes For T-Mar:
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4233 Post(s)
Liked 2,948 Times
in
1,807 Posts
Cool bike and interesting discussion.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Not implying that it's Italian. I just didn't recall Peugeot journeying from Reynolds/Vitus to Columbus...granted, my experience in European models was non-existent until recently...And Peugeots always used Campy on the top line non-market models...I used to dream of a PY10 that had been outfitted with Super Record in a pearl white...it didn't match the catalog. It was right next to a Lotus Supreme, pearl-ized pink also with Campy.
I just thought it sort of unique.
I just thought it sort of unique.