ChiroVette

Okay, there seems to be some ambiguity here that maybe some fellow Big Apple cyclists, particularly in Brooklyn (Kings County) may be able to shed some light on. I love riding on the boardwalks in the summer. I also know in certain spots, where there is a lot of commercialism, you have to be a lot more careful, and sometimes the crowd is too thick to ride through, and I have to either get off the boardwalk or walk my bike through a couple of hundred feet where there are a lot of concentrated concession stand and its during peak hours. Here 's where it gets a little nebulous, though.

In places like Nassau County (though not NYC) I ride all along the boardwalks with no problems at all. When I ride out to places like Long Beach, its fine. Back in NY City, though, there is a huge stretch of boardwalk running all the way from the Eastern end of Far Rockaway all the up to about Beach 136ish, and then a mile where there is no boardwalk, followed by a nice, little stretch on Riis Park I like to ride. Now in the Rockaways, there are two or three SMALL spots where there are those triangular signs saying cyclists have to dismount. But those spots are only in the areas where there is heavy foot traffic due to concession stands all being one on top of the other. And, to make things easier for cyclists, this is only even enforced during peak hours. Which makes sense.

However, this year I noticed a huge crackdown in my home borough of Brooklyn. Cops are out in full force ticketing people on bicycles. Earlier in the season they were warning people to get off the boardwalk on bicycles, but the warnings have now escalated into actual tickets. But I cannot find a single, solitary statute or law in Kings County, no code, no actual violation. I have Googled this and all I get are some amorphous claims that it is illegal, with no actual law I can find to back it up. I have not been ticketed, but it brings up the problem of what law are they enforcing here?

Also, to make things even more complicated, apparently in Brooklyn, it isn't just the small areas, like near Nathan's and all the rides. But from the very beginning of Brighton Beach, near Brighton 14th and 15th, all the way through Seagate, the westernmost part of Coney Island. So, how is it that in Rockaway, and MANY other places in Queens and Nassau County, you can ride the boardwalks and are only asked to dismount in the heavily populated, commercial areas, but in Brooklyn, you are barred from the boardwalk in its entirety, between certain hours, and in summer months?

To even complicate this more, in Rockaway, you have HUGE, signs clearly delineating the very small areas you can't ride in during peak hours. But in Brooklyn, there are no visible signs as you enter or exit the boardwalk telling cyclists we are not welcome. All along the entirety of the boardwalk, there are almost no signs at all for cyclists not to ride. The Parks Department and the cops have assured me that there are (to use their words) VERY SMALL signs here and there, but they claim that these alleged signs, which I have NEVER seen even one, are on the fences leading to the sand. Where, of course, no cyclist is riding anyway.

So.....tl;dr, if this is really illegal during certain hours and certain times of the year, WHAT precisely is the law I am violating? I mean, if a cop gives me a ticket, he isn't just leaving it blank, where it says "Violation." There must be some code that he has to fill in. Also, can I legally be cited for it if there are no clearly visible signs where cyclists are actually riding? I suppose the whole "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" thing may come into play here.

Steve B.

Says it here:

https://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_thin...ghtonBeach.pdf

Bikes on Coney Island and Brighton Beach Boardwalk only from 5AM to 10AM, and from what I can read elsewhere this is between May 1 and Oct 1.

Maybe if they stop you earlier than 10, have a print of this to show them.

ChiroVette

I read that, too, before I started this thread. There's also this:

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/storie...k.html?from=bd

Which talks about riding after October 1st freely.

However, this isn't what I was asking. See, the problem I have with the .pdf rules you linked to (lol not shooting the messenger here, its a problem with them, not you) is that they are NOT quoting a single statute of law anywhere on the web that I can find. When a cop writes a ticket for a red light, speeding, or, hell, even a parking ticket, the laws are readily available. So on the ticket, the police officer is writing a specific, clearly delineated code violation. I don't see that here, is my point. Someone in the Parks Department decided to make a rule book, and posted this up, and that was that.

But I am not looking for some nebulous rule. If I am in violation of a law, as would be the case if I did 65 MPH in a 45 zone, then the law is the law. Near as I can figure, some jackass in the NYC Parks Department simply wrote down that rule, and now the NYPD is tasked with enforcing a law that I see absolutely zero evidence is even an actual law?

See my point? They can write anything they want on a website. But where is the force of law behind it? Congress writes laws. The NY State and City Legislature writes laws. The Parks Department can only write rules, and the NYPD can certainly ask me leave the boardwalk if I am on my bicycle if they choose to. And then, at that point, if I refuse to leave, they can cite me for disobeying a police officer, which, by the way, is a law. If I litter, for instance, then I am not only violating some Parks Department rule, but also laws against littering. What is the actual law cyclists are breaking? I think my point here is that if I break some Parks Department "rule" then my understanding of the law is that I should only be asked, in that moment, to stop doing it. Meaning asked to leave or walk my bike. But tickets should only be written for a violation of a law, with some associated legal statute and code. Not just some "rule" someone made up, which has not been ratified or turned into law by any actual governing body in NY.

Steve B.

This might apply, seems there are specific NYC laws pertaining to parks.

56 RCNY § 1-05(g), “Failure to comply with Beach/boardwalk/pool restrictions”. $50 fine.

https://www.nycgovparks.org/rules/section-1-07

ChiroVette

Well, unfortunately, I think you're right, @Steve B.

Looks like that law encompasses simple and arbitrary "rules" created by the Parks Department, even if the extent of this one is a little stupid. Thanks for finding that one and posting it. Better to know.

estasnyc

Here's a fun fact to know: Once given a ticket, you'll have to go to a hearing before a judge no matter what. You can't mail in a guilty plea and also just mail in the fine.

I can't recall the full range of offenses for which this will be true. Only reading the single exception: Public Urination.

Yes, if you were to whip your willy out and let your fluids stream out wherever these may go, you can receive a fine that can be adjudicated at your convenience by mail. But if you're caught riding your bicycle on the Coney Island boardwalk then you will have to go before a judge.

But at least you won't have to go through central booking.

ChiroVette

Blessing in disguise, actually. In this case, at least. Because the cops and parks department personnel, when they were ejecting people from the boardwalk earlier in the season, were pointing to tiny, little signs that simply CANNOT be seen from anywhere near where cyclists would be riding on the boardwalk. And I have NEVER even seen a single sign warning cyclists not to ride the boardwalk. If I had received a ticket, I would immediately take pictures and short movies on my phone showing not a single warning to cyclists in ANY of the entrances or exits I have used to the boardwalk, and no clearly visible sign on the boardwalk, within the sight-range of where people actually ride, which is usually to the right. Apparently, there are signs to the extreme left, on some fences separating the boardwalk from the sand on the beach, but I have yet to see even one.

I would also take a few pictures of the boardwalks in Rockaway, Far Rockaway, and Riis Park to show that in some very small spots (usually about 40 yards of length) there are big, triangle signs at the beginning and end of the small sections of commercial foot traffic by the concession stands that order cyclists to walk their bicycle only in those small areas. The point is that, absent clear signage, how is a cyclists simply supposed to know they can ride on some boardwalks but not others? At least that would be my legal defense if I was ever ticketed, because lol clearly I already know where I can and cannot ride. Still, I would basically cite that in all the parks and recreation areas that you have to walk your bicycle, in NY City, there are huge, obvious signs.

Steve B.

The signs on the Rockaways boardwalk are pretty obvious and clear. They are large sandwich board signs placed to be in clear view of a rider, and state in large letters "Cyclists must dismount and walk bicycles". As there are only 3 area's that I've seen them, and they tend to be out in the afternoons on days when the beach is busy, it's not onerous. As well, I've ignored the signs on occasion, once in full view of a collection of NYPD officers, no issues. I tend though to just bail down to the street level bike lane and avoid the crowds. Not a hardship.

ChiroVette

These were the points I was trying to bring out. The cops on Coney Island and Brighton's boardwalks are enforcing a law that is far from obvious with tickets. Not to mention that given the liberal, tolerant rules all along the miles of Rockaway boardwalks, and the clarity of those very obvious triangle signs there, this leads to confusion in Coney Island. So the lack of signs in Brooklyn and the inconsistency of boardwalk rules in the boroughs is problematic.

Steve B.

Recall that the City of Long Beach allowed cyclists on their boardwalk while the State of NY Parks Dept. at Jones Beach had you park the bikes a mile north of the beach and it took decades (and $1.5 million) to get JB to 1) Allow bikes to proceed to the boardwalk and 2) To now ride west 4.5 miles with half on a boardwalks jammed with bathers. Such as it is with governmental bureaucracies.

In my opinion, I question the wisdom of allowing bikes on the boardwalk period, when it's jammed with bathers and walkers. It's an unhappy mix. Coney Island could arguably be significantly more crowded then the Rockaways, as thought, so not surprising the rules are different and maybe they will install better signage some day.

ChiroVette

Bicycles on the boardwalk are fine, so long as cyclists are compelled to dismount in the highly commercial areas and at peak hours, obviously. As I was saying above, the way this is handled in the Rockaways is that the majority of the boardwalks are not crowded, so cyclists can proceed the way they would in normal areas on the street. But when you get to the areas, such as the small space near Crossbay Blvd (around Beach 97th) during late morning through afternoon hours in the summer, its too crowded to ride safely, particularly with kids playing, whose safety is the priority. So there are those big, triangle signs in those areas instructing cyclists to dismount, or if we choose, to leave the boardwalk.

My point is that there is no good reason whatsoever in Brooklyn to expel cyclists from the majority of the Brighton Beach and Coney Island boardwalks. What should be done is in the area near Nathan's, the amusement parks, and the other heavy pedestrian traffic areas, they should have the same types of signs that they use in several places in the boardwalks along Rockaway. Problem solved. But there is a huge area from where you can first enter the boardwalk at Brighton 14th to, say West 8th Street, and then from about West 21st Street through Seagate.

By all means lock down the boardwalk, and forbid cyclists to ride from the entire area beginning at about West 8th through right past Nathans, or even better, the Amphitheater. That is a safe area of a little more than a half mile to forbid cyclists from riding during peak hours in the summer. But I can tell you from riding the boardwalks extensively at all times, that the entire Brighton Beach boardwalk is never, ever crowded in even the most peak hours, and the entirety of the boardwalk west of Nathans, Luna Park, and the other rides is just as desolate. Even when the beaches are at their most densely populated, outside of those highly commercial areas near Nathans, there is never enough people to have a reason to stop people from riding.

Steve B.

I think the experience of both a somewhat busy boardwalk in Long Beach, where cyclists have the center section and have for decades been accepted with few reported issues, possibly changed the mind of the State Parks Dept., for the JB boardwalk. I was surprised frankly that the boardwalk from Field 6 west got opened to bikes year round, especially after having a ban in place for decades, from 5/1 to 10/1.

Thus I suspect the NYC Parks folks might be observing the experiences or the Rockaways to determine how or if to modify the Coney Island useage. Thing is I never rode the Rockaways boardwalk when it was wood, it was a mess in sections, thus cannot recall if the current "dismount and walk" policy is new or not, whether the old boardwalk was always open to bikes, etc... I think it's a new policy for as I know they developed the concession stands when they rebuilt after Sandy and it's at the stands that the walk policy is in effect.

I would at the minimum write a letter and as needed start a petition to have the city Parks follow the Rockaways method with clear signage and limits posted.

wilfried

There are painted markings on the entrance ramps to saying no biking, except before 10am. True, not that clear, perhaps, but I've seen them. That said, I've ridden on the boardwalk (slowly, politely, giving plenty of room to pedestrians), with cops around, and have been roundly ignored. I suspect boardwalk enforcement is like all things NYPD, capricious and arbitrary. They'll pick a few weekends to sting, and catch a few unlucky sods, but otherwise ignore it completely. They Coney Island boardwalk is more crowded than the Rockaways. On a nice weekend, no part of it is free and clear to just ride.

zacster

I've done both CI and Rockaway boardwalks without any problem, but at least in CI I avoid the busy times. Rockaway Boardwalk has a bike lane so there is no reason to restrict bikes except by the concessions, which I soft pedal through. I rode the length of the Rockaway boardwalk a number of years ago before it got rebuilt, and beyond around B80th St to Far Rockaway you were in danger of falling through! Then they started building the townhouses and things changed.

Steve B.

Sandy put a lot of the wood about 1/4 mile north. Then when the city was planning a re-build and wanted a more permanent concrete, a lot of locals resisted and desired wood. The City, thank God, said nope, it’s either concrete or nothing, they did not want to do it all again in 10 years. It’s a wonderful ride.