Navigation & Map Computer for Spontaneous Adventure
06-16-18, 12:49 PM
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Navigation & Map Computer for Spontaneous Adventure
I carry a smartphone and a small aux battery pack in my top tube bag and it's all neato. However, I am seeking a cycling computer that excels at navigation and maps to alleviate anxiety and stress, most particularly in non-planned travels that are considered out in the "boonies," often off road (with no cellular service), developing countries, etc.
Avg MPH, distance traveled, etc is nice plus, too. Thanks in advance for your help!
Avg MPH, distance traveled, etc is nice plus, too. Thanks in advance for your help!
06-16-18, 01:36 PM
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Screen resolution and sensitivity on bike computers makes route planning difficult at best. Some of the newer bike computers allow you to plan your route on your phone then download it to your bike computer with bluetooth (if you prefer viewing the turn-by-turn directions on your bike computer instead of your phone).
06-16-18, 04:00 PM
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Couple of thoughts:
1) As michael stated, trying to create routes on the actual devices is hit and miss, just due to the small screen and general clunkiness of the software. Typical bike specific GPS units can be very good at navigating a route created on-line, just not as easy on the device itself.
2) What most folks tend to do is use one of the online route planning sites, such as RideWithGPS or Garmin Connect to do the route planning. You can create many multiple routes/courses to reside on the device to follow on specific days, so if touring as example and when you have WiFi, you create a munch of routes in advance.
3) To do off-road, I assume you want topo maps resident on the device that will show terrain features. Topo maps are not typically resident on a Garmin cycling computer, which mostly use a version of the OpenStreetMap road maps, or the Garmin Cycling map, nor are topo maps available for the Wahoo series of cycling computers. You can get free topo maps from OpenStreetMap, I can say I've had zero luck getting it installed on a Garmin Edge 1000, but I'm sometimes dense at instructions. Or you can purchase the region specific topo maps from Garmin, but they get pricey at $85 for the Northeast, as example.
4) You can create navigable routes for an off-road region, as long as the road/trail exists on the route planning software, but I've yet to see an off-road route give you turn-by-turn directions on gravel/dirt roads, as example, The bike GPS will show you a route you've planned on Garmin Connect, and will show you where you are, yet might not be able to say "in 3 miles, turn left on Nat'l Forest Road 431", as example. Certainly a cycling GPS that has topo maps installed will show you where you are, how far you've gone since you started recording the ride, avg. speed, time, etc....
5) Thus you then need to decide what you want this GPS unit to do. In some respects a hiking/outdoors GPS might serve you well, though you don't get the same cycling specific features of a device designed for cycling. One advantage to some outdoor oriented GPS units is they use AA or similar replaceable batteries, where as a cycling unit will need re-charging after 10-20 hrs. of use. You can use the external USB batteries to run a Garmin for extra power.
1) As michael stated, trying to create routes on the actual devices is hit and miss, just due to the small screen and general clunkiness of the software. Typical bike specific GPS units can be very good at navigating a route created on-line, just not as easy on the device itself.
2) What most folks tend to do is use one of the online route planning sites, such as RideWithGPS or Garmin Connect to do the route planning. You can create many multiple routes/courses to reside on the device to follow on specific days, so if touring as example and when you have WiFi, you create a munch of routes in advance.
3) To do off-road, I assume you want topo maps resident on the device that will show terrain features. Topo maps are not typically resident on a Garmin cycling computer, which mostly use a version of the OpenStreetMap road maps, or the Garmin Cycling map, nor are topo maps available for the Wahoo series of cycling computers. You can get free topo maps from OpenStreetMap, I can say I've had zero luck getting it installed on a Garmin Edge 1000, but I'm sometimes dense at instructions. Or you can purchase the region specific topo maps from Garmin, but they get pricey at $85 for the Northeast, as example.
4) You can create navigable routes for an off-road region, as long as the road/trail exists on the route planning software, but I've yet to see an off-road route give you turn-by-turn directions on gravel/dirt roads, as example, The bike GPS will show you a route you've planned on Garmin Connect, and will show you where you are, yet might not be able to say "in 3 miles, turn left on Nat'l Forest Road 431", as example. Certainly a cycling GPS that has topo maps installed will show you where you are, how far you've gone since you started recording the ride, avg. speed, time, etc....
5) Thus you then need to decide what you want this GPS unit to do. In some respects a hiking/outdoors GPS might serve you well, though you don't get the same cycling specific features of a device designed for cycling. One advantage to some outdoor oriented GPS units is they use AA or similar replaceable batteries, where as a cycling unit will need re-charging after 10-20 hrs. of use. You can use the external USB batteries to run a Garmin for extra power.
Last edited by Steve B.; 06-16-18 at 06:57 PM.
06-16-18, 06:23 PM
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Google offline maps? I think there are other apps that allow you to download maps. My hiking buddy uses Locus Map (Pro) and has maps of hikes on his phone.
06-16-18, 06:47 PM
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06-17-18, 05:07 AM
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As noted by TimothyH, you need a recreational grade GPS unit.
I use a Garnin 62 or 64 series GPS. (I own a 62S and later also bought a 64.) Screen is too small for serious route planning before you leave, but it is big enough to see where you are and where you are trying to go. You can install maps with aid of a computer before your trip, several sources of maps available on the internet and some are topographic maps. Most of the better recreational grade GPS units have a slot for a micro SD card. A 16 or 32 gig card can hold a huge number of maps.
Runs on AA, you do not need the big battery pack. My Garmins are configured to time out the screen in 30 or 60 seconds to save battery. But I get very good battery life on Eneloop batteries and Ikea Ladda batteries. I have a dynohub and USB charger on my bike, also have an AA/AAA charger from USB capability. My last couple tours I was self sufficient for power (never plugged into an outlet, all power used was generated by dynohub). The Garmins will run with the screen backlight turned off when you have good lighting (sunlight, light overcast, etc.) so that helps battery life.
Most of the time the phone was off or in airplane mode, so that was not a big power drain. But it would be a good idea to load some basic maps onto your phone as a backup. Photos are of the same Garmin 64 but photos are of two different bikes.
The mount in the second photo was a DIY mount that attaches to the stem cap bolt.
I use a Garnin 62 or 64 series GPS. (I own a 62S and later also bought a 64.) Screen is too small for serious route planning before you leave, but it is big enough to see where you are and where you are trying to go. You can install maps with aid of a computer before your trip, several sources of maps available on the internet and some are topographic maps. Most of the better recreational grade GPS units have a slot for a micro SD card. A 16 or 32 gig card can hold a huge number of maps.
Runs on AA, you do not need the big battery pack. My Garmins are configured to time out the screen in 30 or 60 seconds to save battery. But I get very good battery life on Eneloop batteries and Ikea Ladda batteries. I have a dynohub and USB charger on my bike, also have an AA/AAA charger from USB capability. My last couple tours I was self sufficient for power (never plugged into an outlet, all power used was generated by dynohub). The Garmins will run with the screen backlight turned off when you have good lighting (sunlight, light overcast, etc.) so that helps battery life.
Most of the time the phone was off or in airplane mode, so that was not a big power drain. But it would be a good idea to load some basic maps onto your phone as a backup. Photos are of the same Garmin 64 but photos are of two different bikes.
The mount in the second photo was a DIY mount that attaches to the stem cap bolt.
06-18-18, 08:45 AM
#8
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Probably the best device to do mapping (and everything else) is just a dedicated smartphone. For phones, if you look at amazon/ebay or even retailers like bestbuy, you'll easily find new units from $20-$50 and for what you are looking for, the smaller the screen the better (and cheaper). At this price they are throw-away devices so forget cases and just stick a garmin compatible mount directly to the back of the phone (KOM make a good one with stick pad included) and get a garmin style mount of your choice -Ebay is full of them and the Chinese ones are fine. And as you're already doing, bring a spare battery of enough capacity to match your ride length.
One huge benefit of phones is the software of the phone and apps is constantly being updated and improved so they keep getting better with age. Many mapping apps work offline but I've been using komoot the last few weeks and I'm liking it more and more as it can map roads and trails as well and works well off-line. For turn-by-turn directions I found Osmand app to be good and it works offline as well.
In fact if phones have a drawback it's that there are too many options - battery packs, apps, settings, mounts and the phones themselves.
One huge benefit of phones is the software of the phone and apps is constantly being updated and improved so they keep getting better with age. Many mapping apps work offline but I've been using komoot the last few weeks and I'm liking it more and more as it can map roads and trails as well and works well off-line. For turn-by-turn directions I found Osmand app to be good and it works offline as well.
In fact if phones have a drawback it's that there are too many options - battery packs, apps, settings, mounts and the phones themselves.
06-27-18, 01:53 PM
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I went into the hills nearby and my smart phone got nothing…What I need is something to tell me exactly where I am in reference to the geography-- to see if I missed a turn on some washed away or vegetatively overgrown trail, etc.
06-27-18, 02:30 PM
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Missing a turn, etc.... is a different story as the device needs to have a route/course on it that you use to navigate. The cycling GPS units do this for road routes, where the unit and mapping database will know what roads to follow and where to turn. I also covered this on my 6/16 post.
06-30-18, 04:46 PM
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For driving I use Nokia Here. You can just download an entire map of the US, it's around 6gb, then it work when you have no signal.
For hiking I've used AllTrails. Other apps do the same thing as well.
Usually you need to go into the app and tell it to download the maps. If you don't have unlimited data you want to be connected to wifi because of the size.
To test out whether it will actually work follow these steps:
1. Put your phone into airplane mode
2. Reboot your phone
3. Verify your phone is still in airplane mode
4. Try using the app map
With google maps (which does not work offline) it will tell me where I am but error out when I ask for directions.
With Nokia Here (with offline maps downloaded) it will tell me where I am and give me directions. No traffic.
Etc.
You can do the same thing with an older phone as well that doesn't have service, connect it to wifi for downloading then try it out away from the wifi.
07-01-18, 12:22 AM
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There’s a function on my Garmin Edge 1000 that I haven’t used yet. You specify a distance for your ‘adventure’ based relative to your current location, and the device shows you some suggested cycling routes and provides navigation and turn-by-turn instructions. Out on the route, you can invoke a ‘get me home’ function at any time.
It’s supposed to be a great feature for exploring nearby areas.
Perhaps others have used this feature already and can provide more information?
It’s supposed to be a great feature for exploring nearby areas.
Perhaps others have used this feature already and can provide more information?
07-01-18, 03:11 PM
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Too slow
Any of the Garmin Edges that have map capability. Plan rides on ridewithgps.com and download the ride to the Garmin Edge of your choice for turn by turn navigation. (Also will show routes to take if you get off course.)
07-01-18, 05:50 PM
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As example, off-road/dirt road routes I’ve created for some Adirondack rides, while showing fine in a OSRI Topo map on RWGPS, only show a route in a green blob area on my Edge 1000, using the provided cycling map, with no detail otherwise. I added the Garmin Topo map to see where these roads exist on a functional screen map,
07-01-18, 06:48 PM
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As stated above, not all Garmins come loaded with the same maps and it’s not typical for Edge models to have Topo maps, which might be useful off-road.
As example, off-road/dirt road routes I’ve created for some Adirondack rides, while showing fine in a OSRI Topo map on RWGPS, only show a route in a green blob area on my Edge 1000, using the provided cycling map, with no detail otherwise. I added the Garmin Topo map to see where these roads exist on a functional screen map,
It's not too hard to create an overlay (transparent) map with contour lines that can be used with any map on any Edge unit (that use maps) starting with the 800. (Overlay maps are a cool feature.)
The Edges can use Garmin's topo maps (but those might not always have routing data.)
I sort of wish the maps didn't include the green blobs (they make useful stuff harder to see).
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-01-18 at 06:52 PM.
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