manuelgabriel

Most people here aren't that rich but still love cycling that's why the frame builder chose to build bikes using hi-tensile

Squeezebox

I'm of the opposite opinion. Get a good frame to begin with, put on cheaper components if you have to. That way sometime down the road when you can afford better components, you'll have a good bicycle. With a low quality frame and good components you'll always have a low quality bicycle, no matter what. But of course a complete bicycle, off the rack, will almost always be the least expensive, best option.
IMHO

Happy Feet

Uh.. a custom made Hi ten frame built to your specific size with the exact features you want for a loaded touring bike would be a quality frame. It's what most of the world has ridden successfully for the last half century or so. Only in the privileged 1st world do we think expensive alternatives are "necessary".

The problem is most people don't know what frame they want when they start so following that thinking they risk wasting a bunch of money on a platform they may or may not ultimately like. Do they want an upright posture, road posture, canti brakes, disc, steel, Al, CF... Someone might buy an adventure bike and find they only do the KATY trail and didn't need something so overbuilt. Another might buy a road frame and decide they enjoy doing gravel more. Buy a LHT and discover one likes CC touring; buy a CF road bike and decide they want to do a fully self supported tour.

A saddle will travel from bike to bike. Same with wheels, racks, panniers, cranksets and most component parts. The only real decision one has to make is wheel size; mainly 700c or 26".

You will also get a better improvement in ride by upgrading components vs frame material providing the bikes themselves are well made. Going from Hi ten to Chromo might save 5lb's on a touring bike which you may or may not notice once you are fully loaded. In this case at an increased cost of $250. Spend that on a saddle, tires or wheels and you will more likely feel an improvement.

I would way rather ride a Hi ten bike with a comfortable saddle and good tires than a Chromo bike with an uncomfortable saddle and cheap tires.

CliffordK

Make sure the frame is built to be compatible with the components of your choice.

So, if you wish to eventually install disc brakes, make sure you get that capability, even if you decide to initially find a set of cheap caliper rim brakes and rim brake wheels to save money on your initial build.

saddlesores

a $5 salvation army bargain bin cast-iron "huffy" frame, if it fits, will make
a decent touring bike when built up with solid wheels and components.

the frame may be heavy, but 99.44% serviceable and guaranteed not to break.

on the another hand, a $5000 hand-built titanium touring frame built up with
the carpy components that came off that huffy would be an exercise
in frustration.

Happy Feet

Exactly.

That's not to say that people shouldn't try to go for the best frame they can afford but the material it is made of makes less difference in the bigger scheme of things. The time that frame material starts to matter more is when people start going beyond the boundaries of traditional loaded touring into UL or psuedo race type tours and strip equipment weight down to the point that frame weight also makes a difference.

Sometimes people say they like a light, responsive feel from a frame, but for a loaded tour bike I think you really want the opposite - a steady straight tracking ride. I don't want a twitchy nimble bike when I'm trying to follow a shoulder line for 8+ hours a day.

Squeezebox

Guaranteed not to break?? Really??
But I do see your point, but still disagree.

alan s 

The gas pipe frame would be heavy enough, but get a spoked wheelset. Solid wheels would add a lot of rotational weight.

BigAura

I'll guarantee that'll never do this:

Squeezebox

Carbon cracks, steel bends. So your 1 picture of a busted carbon frame compared to the probably millions of bent steel frames in the world proves the superiority of carbon compared to low end or midrange steel frames. I'm still willing to discuss high end steel. The level of workmanship needs to be considered also.
Thanks for the 1 picture.
Speaking of workmanship, I'm thinking that carbon must be done well to produce a decent bicycle frame, no cutting corners. Not the same for steel. Look at the bad Xmart bicycles for example.

Spoken36

A question for those who in this thread have stated that there is a 5 pound difference in weight between Hi-ten and Cromoly frames: Have you weighed the stripped frames? If you have, what are the details of the frames? There are many possible details, but none of them, even stacked up, would seem to yield a 5 lb difference. Yesterday I stripped and weighed the frames, sans forks, of two old Treks. A 1976 TX200 49cm that is all Hi-tensile and has butting, was 5.2 lbs. A 1982 model 610 56cm that is 531 double butted main tubes with Ishiwata Magny10 stays weighed half a pound less at 4.7 lbs. That's ONE HALF POUND difference.

Yes, the smaller frame was heavier, and the bigger frame was only butted 531 main tubes. But to say there could be 2 pounds difference because of Hi-ten vs Cro-Moly is overstating the case, let alone the absurdity of 5 pounds. Good grief. A general, guessed at, five pounds is what frames WEIGH. Let's not state weights unless we do the weighing. Just a suggestion.

saddlesores

next best thing to cyclin' neckit!

jefnvk

ZOMBIE

The actual quote was:
Not a claim that the frame would actually be 5# heavier, rather that in touring you are already carrying a lot of weight, even 5# in difference isn't that significant. I.e., don't worry about the weight.

Spoken36

Yeah.
My wife was really complaining about that... but you gotta be comfy when weighing bare frames.

Spoken36

Well, the $300 dollar difference was referring to the OP's Hi-Ten vs Cromoly scenario. As was the 5 lb difference. All in the quote that you generously provided.

5 lbs, of going from Hi-ten to Cromoly -- worth the $300 extra cost. That is the actual context.

But I fully agree with your assessment. The weight is functionally irrelevant.

Aubergine 

Happy Feet

Thanks for weighing the frames Spoken36

I think most of the weight discrepancy would come from the lower end/older parts used on many Hiten frames. You just have to pick up some older seats bars or cranks, freewheel rims or caliper brake levers to see. At least for mtb's, the onset of cromoly frames and subsequent higher quality aluminum parts drops the weigh of bikes considerably.

I would be willing to bet a sandwich that if you had two frames built the same, painted the same, spec'd the same and loaded the same for a tour, no one would be able to tell the difference between one or the other.

fietsbob

In order to be of adequate strength, a Hi Ten tube set has a thicker tube wall..

the added expense for Chro Mo / 4130, can be made even lighter,
thru additional efforts , heat treating, butting, etc.
adding to material cost, and skills needed of the builder..

Tourist in MSN

The weight of a bike is the sum of the weights of all parts on it. I have a couple similar touring bikes. One has a Titanium frame, the bike is only a few pounds lighter than the comparable steel frame bike.

The Titanium frame (without fork) actually weighs less than my rear wheel with a 37mm tire on it. The wheel is built for carrying a load, thus I have 36 spokes holding a Dyad rim to the M756A steel axle hub that carries a steel cassette.

Both bikes have nearly identical drive trains, both have Brooks saddles, both have robust racks on front and rear, both have fenders, etc. Besides the difference in frame material, the only other significant difference is that the Titanium bike is 700c and the steel frame bike is 26 inch. The steel frame bike weighs 9 percent more than the Titanium bike. I think the difference is roughly equivalent to about one and a half water bottles. Not a huge difference.

Spoken36

fietsbob

don't forget the tube diameter matters too, not just the steel alloys..


but , will you tour, somewhere, on what you have? or just stay home,
until you have the perfect bike?





....

Abu Mahendra

Like this?

Abu Mahendra

i can get a set of wheels hand laced up by an experienced wheel-builder for $15 labor in Indonesia. Labor is even cheaper in the Philippines. Labor is cheap outside the developed West.

Happy Feet

Sweet!

It's on my DIY short list. Do you know what kit that's from.
and... What's up with the chain stay assembly? Oh, I see, in the pic it looks like the top of the right stay is attached to the bottom of the left

Abu Mahendra

It's not a kit, but rather manufactured by a now-defunct American-owned company in Bali. There is a truss spanning the left chain-stay and seat-stay to brace--my guess--againt the forces created by the disk brakes.