topflightpro

If you've never seen the movie Role Models, it's pretty entertaining and LARPing plays a prominent role:

Doge

I mentioned it was an age thing.
I'm of the thought that when most (over 50%) of the kids go all-in on a sport that is good.
When that sport is also one wanted by a college - many can leverage it. We think ball sports, but there is LARP->fencing, rowing, cycling etc that all provide an opportunity to get free stuff, get in and in a rare case scholarship.

For non teens, it is a hobby. For serious teens it can be as important as school work. I was pointing this out as a PSA for parents. PM me and I can give some pointers.

Anyway - I'm driving P123 support tomorrow and off to PHX in about 2 hours.

TheKillerPenguin

I guess I just think there's more intrinsic value in playing bikes than there is in playing commerce ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like JCVD in Bloodsport!!!

TheKillerPenguin

I guess I just think there's more intrinsic value in playing bikes than there is in playing commerce.

Like JCVD in Bloodsport!

(I'd probably feel differently if I was working for like NASA or was a doctor or had kids)

topflightpro

I don't know, I'd bet about 70 percent of bike racing is really playing commerce, i.e. buying parts to make you faster, look cooler...

TheKillerPenguin

I have a Mr. Burns style collection of socks made out of various animals. See my socks, see my socks, this pair's made of Arctic Fox...

tetonrider

love the JCVD reference. have you seen the new series jean claude van johnson? worth a look... love the self-awareness.

one part of the conversation i had with my buddy on the way to the Gila involved a mutual friend of ours. by all accounts, the guy is a successful bike racer: cat 1, state champ, top 10 at nationals, top 5 at chico, that sort of thing. he's raced in the UCI race at the gila and is on 'pro' teams (he gets a bike to use and they rent a house for the team, though he doesn't get paid), but he's too old for it to go anywhere. the young guys who have a chance of going somewhere respect him, though they know this. He has "made it" far further than most.

the thing is, this guy is an engineer, and he puts like 10% of the effort into his career -- what pays his rent/mortgage -- as he does into cycling. he's missed plenty of work for races -- not just vacation but leave due to broken bones and/or head injuries.

we laughed because he's "a pro."

anyway, the convo i had with my buddy lead to wondering if there's ever a person who would say the reverse:
"Yeah, I'm a professional engineer. No, I don't get PAID to do it! I just spend all my free time from my day job as a _____ -- nights, weekends, vacation -- engineering. But I'm totally a pro."

who do you do this engineering with?

"Well, I do most of it alone, after hours. Occasionally I travel to a place where a bunch of other guys who also paid their own money to get there do their engineering, too. There are actually a couple guys (THREE of them at the last race!) who don't even have any other job. Yes, two of those guys live at home with their parents who drive wheel cars, but one of them gets PAID!"

the notion of being a 'pro' engineer without being paid is, of course, laughable, which is exactly what makes it great. insert your own preferred career. it can definitely kill an hour in the car.

i wonder if there are 30-year old beer league softball players who actually believe they might go to the major leagues; there ARE 30-yo cyclists who definitely believe they will be a pro.

all in good fun.

Ttoc6

But how many 'pro' athletes have you met that once it becomes a "job" they hate doing it. Just like most people and their real jobs. Once you start having to deal with the bureaucracy (doping control, constant travel, etc in the example of cycling) of the thing it becomes significantly less enjoyable for anyone.

tetonrider

i can't say i know a ton, but i know a few professional cyclists (1 WT, others continental...no other job), a bunch of skiers (alpine and nordic), and an NHL player and baseball player.

none talk about hating it.

i take your point; my guess is the # of professional athletes who dream they are pushing paper in an office, even on their worst day, is, like, an amount that doesn't even register compared to the % of paper-pushers who dream of being a pro.

would you ever tell someone you were a professional engineer if you only did it on vacation, by yourself, and not for money?

furiousferret

As much as I love cycling you couldn't pay me to be a pro; I'd take being a Froome, Contador, or even Phinney but just an average Domestic Pro or no name UCI Domestique no way. The problem being a pro athlete isn't disliking it, its when you're not good enough to be pro you're discarded and at an advanced age have to start life just like the rest of us did at 18.

A guy I used to work with played in the English Premier League for 2 years, his only real regret is having to start life at 26 (when the dream ended) with his parents so burnt out on funding his chase to be pro college was out of the question.

tetonrider

noted.

in cases like that, i think it is always better to pursue it to as high a level as one can; that way, later in life they are not left wondering 'what if?'

better to know that you made it only to, say, cat 1 or domestic pro, or even world tour domestique rather than wonder.

in cycling, there are very few people who can win at the world tour level, and basically all of them were winning at the level just below that. you advance until you become someone else's bottle-fetcher.

did we decide if chico is running p12 or p1 and 2?

rubiksoval

All I ever wanted to do was be a pro. Even now, if someone offered me my current salary (not much) to be a bottle carrier on a domestic team, I'd have a long talk with my wife about doing it for a year or two...

I went to college planning on becoming a pro my junior or senior year, and then when that didn't happen went to Europe right after I graduated for one last go at it. Massive, massive failure. A whole different level necessary, but I hung on to that dream as long as possible.

But I still wish I had the talent... even with all of the crazy absurdity that is cycling. Being a pro athlete, being paid to play a sport, especially an international one, wow. As a life-long athlete (and someone that's traveled extensively) I can't think of any other career that'd even come close to that.

TheKillerPenguin

Jean-claude Van Johnson is fantastic, but they cancelled it so no time war

Anyway I'm serious when I say cycling makes more sense to me than a normal job. I'd be so psyched to make 0 dollars and be "pro" without ability to climb higher due to age or limited talent, even for like just a season. I also know I'm too old to "make it", but I appreciate the process of trying to get as good as possible at something. It's just way more interesting than a day job, and the pursuit of getting as good as possible has bled into the rest of my life in really positive ways.

I make a lot less money than I would make if I took my day job more seriously, but it's enough, and cycling required long-term planning that got me to a place where I do my day job on my terms, and I get to take off in the middle of the day to play bikes and chase after something that really connects with me on a reptile brain level, and my s/o appreciates the passion and dedication and unreasonable stupidity of it all, and I don't get winded walking up stairs

Doge

That may be a regret.

rubiksoval

I don't think most people would regard going after their dream a regret.

topflightpro

I know a couple of people in their early to mid-30s who are still trying to make it as pro cyclists.

There was a time in my early 20s when I thought I had a chance to make it in low-level pro hockey. But it was a stretch.

hubcyclist

Did you play at your alma mater? If so, pretty impressive to have made it to that level!

Doge

I agree. I actually meant choosing not to follow dreams while still developing may be a regret.
Then again, when there are multiple dreams you need to choose one.

But...there still is a lot of riding.

Doge

Junior did 1st USA TT since winter 2016 yesterday.
In 2016 he won the 17-18 Valley of the Sun TT Merckx and junior gears. This was his 1st adult gear TT.

It was out and back and conditions were poor (rain and wind), and they had finished a 60 mile race 3 hours before.
This was part of an omnium so some riders DNS, and others were allowed to just do the TT, but I think most had done the RR.

Junior blazed it in the rain and won over 2nd and 3rd (they tied) by :54 in ~20K.

hack

TT bikes are allowed. Separate P1 and 2 fields. No 45+ fields.

carpediemracing 

When it's miserable out I tell the Missus, "I'm so glad I'm not good at cycling. If I was a pro I'd be training in this stuff." I guess when I was in my 20s I thrived in inclement weather, going out for long rides when it rained or sleeted or if there was a chance of snow. But now... if it's not withing 5 deg of 70 deg and the humidity is a few points from 50% then I'll ride outside.

Not having much potential makes cycling easy for me. No pressure other than what I put on myself.

I did dream about turning pro, when I was 16-17. But when I was 18 and did a slew of road races (with hills).... yeah, no.

I suppose managing/owning a bike shop is a dream kind of thing? I pursued it, life was both tough and enjoyable, and I don't regret it, but man was it hard sometimes. I've convinced a number of friends not to buy or start a bike shop.

Ttoc6

Dammit. Now I have to decide between TBC and Chico...

hack

What category? If you can TT well, it's a good race for placing high in GC. They've got stand alone 2, 3, and P1 fields.

Road race is 2 laps on a 45 mile course with rollers with a 10-ish minute gravel section. Wind can come into play on a 10 mile exposed section.

Crit is one of the more fun ones I ever done. Up there with Cascade.

Circuit race is fast with some short punchy rollers.

TT is FLAT.

Ttoc6

3 working to Cat 2. Hoping to work on the TT stuff this year. Typically fair well on rolling courses. Looks like Tuscon Bike Classic might have a little lower level of competition and a doing a 7 minute TT sounds... fun... IDK I'll mkae up my mind soon. Pretty much the same drive either way and I'll know other racers at Chico.

mattm

So there was a discussion on FB about the 45’s being merged with the 35+ at Chico.

One guy was upset about it.

Then someone made this masterpiece: https://www.captiongenerator.com/882...nates-45-field

I’m tearing up just watching it!