Toe overlap
#27
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For me, probably 95% of the scuffs are from switchback/hairpins on a combo pedestrian/cycling ramp and path to get over the George Washington Bridge NYC/NJ. It looks like a lot, but it's accumulated over a couple years of rides. Anyone else here do the GWB ramp and can speak to this?
The bike he built for me has toe overlap.
#28
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To my mind, toe overlap is epic fail; it just shouldn't be a thing that's tolerated. Aside from messing with low-speed turns, it really interferes with track-standing at the lights. Lucky for me I only get it on bikes that are too small for me.
But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.
Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.
But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.
Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.
#29
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Don't have to turn the bars nearly as much if you just lean the bike over a bit.
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It simply isn't possible to turn a bike over a few MPH without leaning. You would just fall to the outside of the turn.
#31
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You guys forget that I ran a poll thread a while back on this topic, https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...-question.html, that showed fairly conclusively that toe overlap was more prevalent in smaller frames and less so in larger. The frame geometry differences are more significant than the foot size differences.
#32
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To my mind, toe overlap is epic fail; it just shouldn't be a thing that's tolerated. Aside from messing with low-speed turns, it really interferes with track-standing at the lights. Lucky for me I only get it on bikes that are too small for me.
But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.
Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.
But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.
Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.
#33
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I notice mine mostly at stop lights. For whatever reason, I sometimes turn the front wheel the way of my forward foot. During normal riding, there's no problem.
#34
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You guys forget that I ran a poll thread a while back on this topic, https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...-question.html, that showed fairly conclusively that toe overlap was more prevalent in smaller frames and less so in larger. The frame geometry differences are more significant than the foot size differences.
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Careful with wording lest people conclude what you're saying incorrectly.. your poll showed that more than half of the respondents with larger frames had toe overlap; less than half of larger-framed bikes did not have toe overlap (25 vs 19). So for larger frames, toe overlap was more prevalent than no toe overlap.
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In smaller frames the score was 53 yes to 7 no. A whopping 88% of the frames had overlap. In larger frames the score was 25 yes to 19 no. Only 57% had overlap. So you are right, but so am I. The fraction of overlapping was much higher in smaller frames. If I had split large and small at 55-56 cm instead of 54-55, the larger frames might well have had more noes than yeses. The split I chose was just arbitrary. A distribution by size, cm by cm from say 46 to 63, would surely show the weighting of overlap in smaller sizes.
Eg. a 52cm Endurance frame, generally has about the same wheelbase as a 60cm road-race frame (arbitrarily using Trek Domane vs Emonda as proxies)
Last edited by Sy Reene; 06-22-18 at 10:28 AM.
#37
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Riding fast, no problems will occur ,
it's the sharp, slow speed turns, where you need be mindful of that issue..
it's the sharp, slow speed turns, where you need be mindful of that issue..
#38
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You guys forget that I ran a poll thread a while back on this topic, https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...-question.html, that showed fairly conclusively that toe overlap was more prevalent in smaller frames and less so in larger. The frame geometry differences are more significant than the foot size differences.
#40
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I have minor toe overlap on my Black mountain road - exacerbated by 700x28s + bulkier touring SPDs. Every once in awhile It’ll surprise me with a little toe tap, including the GWB ramp, track stand stops at lights, and other sharp turning maneuvers, usually happens at very slow speeds. Doesn’t bother me at all really, since I really like so many other ride qualities and comfort this bike has.
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Riding 48-51cm frames I have had toe overlap on all my bikes from race bikes to endurance to cyclocross and adventure/gravel touring. The only time it is a problem is cyclocross where pedaling and steering (not just leaning) simulataneously is necessary. After awhile you learn how to time your pedal strokes so they don't interfere. The worst was endoing on an off camber when I got my foot caught on the opposite side of the tire, luckily the mud/grass was soft.
#42
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I have a 52cm Fuji Sportif road bike, a 54cm Raleigh RXM cyclocross, and a 56cm Diverge, and they all have toe overlap, as did the Fuji Cross I test-rode. It drives me crazy. I'm coming from a lifetime of only riding mountain bikes where it was not a thing.
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Perhaps so. For sure it is correlated to what folks actually own.
#44
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It's especially problematic with fixed gears, not because of the geometry but because you can't re-position your feet. Mostly not a big deal except for slow-speed maneuvers like in parking lots and driveways. You learn to deal with it - I wouldn't want a bike designed not to have any overlap and then it wouldn't handle well at speed.
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I think we're talking about low speed maneuvers, which is pretty much the only time that the wheel is turned far enough over for toe overlap to be a factor. At such low speeds, leaning is not part of the turn.
#48
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Who are you talking about that ride in groups and puts their feet down to turn? I've never seen anyone ride a bike that way outside a nursery school.
#49
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Particularly the sharp downhill turns off the Watt Bridge and similar spots cause a pile up if the group is together..
#50
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Even on a motorcycle, you lean the bike at low speeds, lean yourself at higher speeds otherwise you turn like crap.
The dynamics are the same: