Out-The-Back

Yes, I realize the conversation was in reference to a road race...much of which still applies. Continuing on pedaling squares is counter productive once you're out of the race, especially if there's no hope of getting back on and's not a timed stage race and even then you're most likely out of it and it's best to save it for the next day unless there's a time limit.

VT Biker

Maybe for you it is not worth staying in. For others it is beneficial. As a someone newer to racing who has time constraints due to a job and life, this was valuable time in the saddle. I am happy for you that you have so much time to train and so much experience racing, that finishing this would get in the way of your program. For others, there are benefits from a training perspective.

Out-The-Back

Reread my post VT, no where did I say "VT, you need to....". I'm speaking in fairly generic terms of my opinion, what I've read, and what's worked for me. You would probably be suprised at just how much time I do or don't spend on the bike as I too have all those things. Given a limited schedule, the training in my opinion is even that much more critical that you're spending the time you have doing quality training...not just getting as much seat time as possible. Either way, my posts are something to ponder, like anything else, I'd do my own research and draw my own conclusions. What may or may not work for me may have totally different results for you. Either way, have fun!

badhat

i just think quitting sucks

VT Biker

Well - my alternative was to do hang out at the beer tent waiting for my teammates to finish. Let me run that plan by my coach and see what he thinks.

Out-The-Back

Hahahaha, Get over yourself....My original post was not directed at anyone other than the fact that I said I agreed with Brian. I don't care what you do. I was adding another perspective for those that read this thread. I do find these two statements funny though (that is directed at you) ;-)

"As someone newer to racing"....."let me run that plan by my coach".....

By all means...you're paying for it...I'd listen to him/her.

VT Biker

Trust me....my term coaching is the cheapest, most liberal definition of the the term. But I get how that could be construed as funny.

fghtffyrdmns

I'll just use the race report forum to introduce myself as well:

After a little over a year of biking(I did take some time off this winter due to knee pain which I think has hurt my fitness a bit, but the knee is all better after some adjustment on the bike), doing group rides, spending a consistent 150 miles (not enough, I know) a week on the bike over the past three months. and many hours spent consuming information on this forum, I finally did my first race yesterday. It was the Tuesday night PIR series here in town. The field was a mixed CAT4/5 field. For those unfamiliar, PIR is the local raceway track. It is less than two miles, with no elevation changes and nice smooth pavement.

Needless to say, I quickly ended up off the back after a couple laps. A combination of passing on the back stretch on the left side (which put me right into a headwind), not getting far enough up, and then immediately going into a series of turns (which in the Cat5s meant people braking and heavy surging) led to this event. I just didn't quite have the recovery time to be able to put in yet another acceleration and found myself slipping off the back before I could do anything about it. It was very frustrating as I feel I'm in good shape for the level of racing I'm doing, but it was also eye opening in what to expect first hand from a race.

The Good: I had no problems holding my line on the turns, and I felt that I was definitely not nearly as sketchy as most of the riders in the Cat5 group. I felt very comfortable in the pack and in control despite the sketchiness of some other riders. Guess the group rides are paying off.

The Bad: I worked against myself and spent too much time outside of shelter trying to move around in the pack when I should have been more patient and tried to move up more slowly through the middle. The pace also was fast and very variable (lots of surges), but I think that was due to the race being so short (something like 30 mins).

Things to work on:
1. Intervals, intervals, intervals. I was able to recover, but it wasn't quick enough and I had no chance of catching back on when I got dropped (felt totally fried when I did get dropped). On such a short quick race, quick recovery seems like it is the key, especially if you aren't in the top 15-20 riders in a 60+ person race. I feel I'd currently be more suited to a longer road style race. All the group rides and solo training hasn't given me enough prep for the variable pace of a short crowded, circuit race. Intervals it is!
2. Tactics, I felt comfortable in the group, I just needed more patience with my moves and should have spent more time trying to fill gaps and constantly be moving up slowly through the pack as opposed to moving up on the side before the curves. I'd move up, recover, and then by the time I recovered I'd have fallen back again and have to repeat the process.
3. ? Not sure, any advice welcome!

To sum things up, I had the feelings of excitement, frustration, understanding, questioning and pure futility all at the same time. I'll continue to come back regardless of how long it takes for me to finish well.

MDcatV

when i was a 3 i did a P123 road race that the 3s were scored separately. I would have "won" if I would have finished since i was the last 3 to get dropped ... but it was a long drive home and my wife was in the feedzone giving me cut-throat jesture.

waterrockets 

If it makes you feel better to run your tires of the intended course, fine, I can understand that. This isn't quitting in the way that it would be if you were building something or painting something. It's not the same as quitting in a field-sport like soccer, where your team can still use you even though there's little hope of winning.

In a bike race, when you're OTB, you're OTB. I'm not talking about a mixed category race where you can't tell how many competitors are in front or behind you. I'm not talking about some attrition race where everyone is going off the back at some point and you might catch them. I'm talking about being in a big pack, you miss some splits, it's still together and strong at the front, and you go out the back of it.

If I feel like a training ride at that point, sure. If I don't feel like it, it doesn't bother me a bit to head for the parking lot. I don't get to race that often, and I'm not going to spoil the experience with a boring ride using blown legs.

I am not in this sport to train. I'm not in it for scenery or fitness. I'm not in it for time trials or survival. I'm in this sport to f**k up other people's legs and try to beat them and help teammates do the same. If there's not anyone around, it's not a race. In my eyes, it's not even a sport at that point. I'd rather go do something interesting.

Brian Ratliff

Keep at it. PIR is a great race; I was there myself in the 1/2/3 field last night.

Some pointers:

1) quick recovery comes from good fitness. Road races have the same surge/slow/surge feel to them; it's the nature of riding in a pack. People vary, but most I've talked to say 2x20min intervals are one of the best ways for a new racer to get in to race shape.

2) Tactics at PIR differ from other races, but it is a good race in which to practice pack skills. Your instincts are correct, to stay within the field, in shelter, and spend less time moving up the side of the field.

3) Don't get discouraged. Especially at PIR, there are a lot of new Cat 5s who will be Cat 3s at the end of the season who are in your field right now. Keep challenging yourself in the race. Keep training, and you'll make progress.

waterrockets 

I guess I should mention that I don't believe I've gone OTB since 1995. Maybe, but I can't recall any.

Brian Ratliff

I was in this situation on the track in a points race last year. It was the state championships and the 3's were in with the 1/2 elites but scored separately. There were only five of us 3's and it was a 75 (I think) lap points race. The 1/2s got the race going really fast and I was off the back after about 25 or 30 laps. Now, many of the 1/2s were also off the back at this point; they just dropped out. There was a whole crowd of dropped riders forming on the infield. The only problem was there were only three of us 3s left in the race and we were all locked into our respective positions. The guy in 1st stayed with the field longer than I had and had several laps on me. I had lapped the guy in 3rd a couple times. Talking about a slog. I was blown, no water, and I had to keep doing laps in a fish bowl on a hot day while the field lapped me every 5th lap or so, just to secure my second place position in the 3s.

By the end, 2/3rds of the race was dropped; basically, everyone who was lapped or who hadn't scored points had pulled out. And then there were us three Cat 3s, slogging it along just waiting for the race to end. I would have laughed at the situation had I been able to spare the energy to make sound come out of my mouth...

MDcatV

^that's a good story.

shovelhd

I should be committed for joining in on this OTB pissing contest, but I should be committed for just participating in this stupid sport.

I have never voluntarily pulled myself out of a race, Ever. As a Cat4, 3, 2 or Master. And I don't think I ever will unless it's a mechanical that cannot be fixed or a physical problem that would cause further damage.

I remember doing this crit in a torrential downpour somewhere in southeastern MA. Fall River, New Bedford, somewhere around there. Well over a hundred started. It was a crashfest. I took conservative lines around the corners and got dropped and lapped, but never went down. They let me stay in, though. With 10 to go what was left of the crowd started cheering. The announcer kept egging me on to finish. So I did. By the end I was in the top 20 and the lantern rouge.But I finished.

wfrogge

Raced this past Saturday in a 123 race... Went with an early 3 man break that swelled to 10 at one point. Could only muster 7th for the day. That is all

VT Biker

It has gotten silly. Let your post be the end of it. Different strokes for different folks

Grumpy McTrumpy

if everyone who got dropped in bkill 40+ pulled out there would have been 147 dnf

Brian Ratliff

Hey, you were the one who brought the subject up. You said you didn't understand, so some people explained it to you. What else did you expect?

fghtffyrdmns

Brian,

Thanks for the info. I'll throw in a couple days of 2x20min routines into my weekly routine. My commute actually works perfect for this as it has plenty of uphill, not a lot of stoplights, and would give me enough time to fit them in. I'm looking into finding a team to ride with as well for extra training/motivation and to get more involved in the racing community.

I've heard PIR tactics vary as well from other people and that it tends to have a lot of strong riders just passing through (especially early in the year). At this point, I know I'm new enough to biking in general that just getting as much experience and absorbing as much info as possible is key. I can worry about trying to win later on as my fitness and experience increase.

A friend of mine raced the 1/2/3 as well (he rides for West End). You ride for Portland Velo from the looks of your profile picture right? I've met a few guys from your team as well at the Lakeside Sunday "recovery" ride. Good people.

VT Biker

I know - I did not expect it to devolve into a pissing match due to egos and opinions. We all can race differently, with different expectations at different times in the season/careers racing. I just was surprised so many held the view of pulling out of races early.

Brian Ratliff

Yup. Portland Velo. I'm out there most Tuesdays.

carlosflanders

I'm cheap. I paid my money and I'm going to get maximum value for it. Unless there are some safety issues, I'm not quitting. I'm no p12 and I need the training anyhow.

The reason for the high # of DNFs in CO is because the ACA doesn't list the names. Finishing the race means risking the shame of being named DFL and having one's fragile ego harmed. Pulling out means slinking away anonymously. This is particularly bad in CX. I've DFL'd more races than I can count, through mechanicals or being just plain lousy, even though I finished in the third quartile of starters.

cmh

I was out ther in the P123's as well on Tuesday. I came out of retirement for my first race in 20 months. I wasn't so much racing as I was riding with the field, but considering I've had about 3 hrs of training per week on average this spring (with several weeks at 0 hrs), it wasn't so bad. The only time that was particularly painful was the ramp up to the finish. Hopefully I'll get a bit more consistency to my training and I'll be back to contesting the sprints. It is much more fun that way.

Creakyknees

uh yeah.. would it be unfair of me to credit "race selection" as the primary driver of that fact?

lesson for the newbs - choosing the right kind of race (matching your abilities) is one of the biggest factors in getting results.