ufa

Hello all,
I am a small creature (5'') and I'm searching for an Audax bike. I was looking for a Surly (Pacer or Cross-Check, 42cm or 46cm) frameset. Do you think they would be a good randonneur bike?
If you have more tips on small bikes for that purpose , please tell me
Great rides to everyone

ufa

StephenH

Well, 5" is about half the height of a Barbie doll, so hopefully something got lost in the conversion there.

In general, any bike that is reasonably comfortable, not terribly slow, and reasonably reliable can be used for randonneuring, and there's a large variation in what people actually do use and prefer. So either one of those could be used, along with a hundred other bikes.

Whare are you riding now? And what do you not like about it?

I don't need the triple on my bike very often, but when I do, I'm glad it's there. Depending on the rider and the landscape, that could vary. I notice both those bikes in the "complete bike" listing are offered with doubles.
It looks like the Crosscheck has the capability of taking wider tires, which is handy if you need it, and probably extra wind drag and weight if you don't.
Some people favor steel only, but among the local rando group, titanium bikes seem to be preferred.
If you plan to use any kind of rack, see if there are attachment points for it.

ufa

LOL, guess I did a plus ' (I am 1,52m)
Well, I commute everyday to work (in a Brompton), and have done some 100km trails in a MTB.
I cannot make up my mind, now I am in love with the LHT in 26 wheels. It seems perfect for randonneuring ^^
Anyway, thanks for the tips

fettsvenska 

The LHT is certainly a fine bike for touring and long rides. However, have you tried touring on your Brompton? You never know...see this link

https://www.pbase.com/canyonlands/image/140981954

ufa

I have never ride more than 40km with my Brompton, maybe I will give it a try. But I am afraid of some backpain. And I only have 3 gears. Anyway, who knows

Homeyba

I think Stephen pretty much nailed it. At your height, 650 wheels make sense though not a neccessity. I'd probably look for something designed around them if that's what you want. When my son was young, and smaller than you (then bigger ) I had him on a kids road bike with 700s. It worked great. He did RAGBRAI and a number of centuries on it when he was 9yrs old. There are a number of manufacturers who make them.

I don't know if I'd entertain the idea of doing anything long on the Brompton. It's not really designed for that (Sounds like you're aware of it's limitations). I don't think it's in the same league as say a Bike Friday.

ufa

Homeyba,
Can you name some of those manufacturers? Thanks

Homeyba

Sure, It's been a while since I was in the market. My son is 21 now. He rode a Schwinn Primus which I don't think they make anymore. I believe Felt, Colnago, Scott, Fuji, Giant, Dolan and Trek to name a few make them (or did ). Some of them are on 650's and some on 700's. The only down side is that many of them have "kids" level components. I replaced the components on my son's Schwinn with an old set of Dura Ace components I had. It was a pretty slick set up.

mander

Something that small people need to watch out for is steep seat tubes. Manufacturers do this with their smallest sizes in order to fit 700c wheels in the frame. Both the Pacer and the CC have 75 degree seat tubes in the smallest sizes.

The problem is that in order to get a properly ergonomic position on a bike with a 75* seat tube, you will have to run a seatpost with very high setback. (Having your weight too far forward will put a lot of strain on your wrists and can cause knee problems)

And in turn, this makes the frame fit much longer than the nominal top tube size would imply, so that real-world differences between the smaller sizes of frame are actually very small.


The simplest fix for this is, get a bike with smaller wheels.

unterhausen

moving the seat tube forward is problematic, but if a short person insists on 700c tires you are going to have to go to a slack head tube or risk ridiculous toe overlap. Slack headtubes can handle ok if the fork matches right.

There is a free online version of Bikecad that you can use to try designing a frame and see how hard it is to avoid some of these pitfalls.

Carbonfiberboy 

The small people I've ridden LD with all had custom frames with 650 wheels. Custom steel in fine, Ti is nice if in budget. Only problem with 650 is you should carry a spare tire as no one else will have one. My wife has an MTB frame converted with road components but still with MTB wheels. Not the perfect solution, but it works. She runs Ritchey Tom Slicks on it. Going that route, you have to be sure that the effective top tube length will be OK for you. With the usual road components, you'll be geared a little lower with 650, but that's fine for rando/audax.

hybridbkrdr

I'M GOING TO EDIT THIS POST TO INCLUDE CHEAPER MODELS:
Fuji Ace 650 Comp
https://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/ace_650_comp
Fuji Ace 650 Pro (This one has Shimano Tiagra)
THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST SUITABLE IN MY OPINION
https://www.fujibikes.com/bike/details/ace_650_pro
Vitus Premiere 650b (wheels are a bit larger than 650c)
https://www.vitusbikes.com/kids-bikes...iere-650b-2013

Bunch of small or extra small road frames here:
This one is for 650c wheels Pro-Lite Cuneo
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=91409
Don't know if the frame includes fork, you'd have to contact Chainreactioncycles but here's a 650c fork Planet X Stealth Pro 650 TT
https://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...on_650_tt_fork

Handspun rear wheel 650c
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=712360
Handspun front wheel 650c
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=712359

Pro-Lite Carrara
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=68391
frameset Ridley Triton
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=92725
frameset Ridley Yana
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=90598

complete bike, this one comes in 40cm, 45cm BeOne Leontien
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=75418

BeOne Jade Sport
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=90511

Redline Conquest 24 inch wheels, cyclocross
https://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes...13-conquest-24

Shimano Tiagra 4650 2x10 groupset 330 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p223825.html

Shiamno Tiagra 4603 3x10 groupset 400 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p223827.html

Shimano 105 5700 2x10 groupset 470 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p215778.html

Shimano 105 5700 3x10 groupset 490 Euro
https://www.bike24.com/p215772.html

Shimano PD-T400 pedals $29 U.S.
https://www.xxcycle.com/php/boutique/...ITpp&key=18592

Once you've chosen FRAMESET, WHEELSET and GROUPSET, you can choose other parts such as...
tires, tubes, rim strips, pedals, headset, headset spacers, stem, handlebars, grips or bar tape, seatpost clamp, seatpost, saddle, chainstay protector, spoke protector, wheel reflectors, frame reflectors and S-hooks

I don't know if this Cinelli 650c fork is 1-1/8" or not.
https://bricklanebikesshop.co.uk/pro...elli-650c-fork

To give you an idea of the total cost of a build with the 650c frame, fork, wheels and Tiagra 3x10 groupset...
$243 frame
$162 fork
$307 wheelset
$538 groupset Tiagra 3x10
$250 other parts
= $1500

There's a complete xsmall here Tifosi CK7 Audax Veloce https://www.wiggle.com/tifosi-ck7-audax-veloce-2013/
same with Sora
https://www.wiggle.com/tifosi-ck7-audax-sora-2013/

Mr. Fly

If you can swing it, consider the Box Dog bikes Pelican. Their smallest is a 48cm, so you should be able to find a suitable size. Pelicans are designed for randonneuring, with tubing thicknesses appropriate for the light loads and geometry appropriate for relaxed long-distance cruising. The folks behind it are also very nice and interesting, if that matters. And no, I'm not commissioned.

https://shop.boxdogbikes.com/collecti...ikes-pelican-1

rodar y rodar

That can be a good option. My daily rider is a Schwinn mtb with some road components and my new "light" bike is a Rockhopper in drag. But mine still have mtb drivetrains, so you know I`m not the Carbonfiberwife

As stated, it isn`t perfect, but they are cheap, and certainly not awfull.

maxine

I'm (barely) an inch taller than the OP, and both my bikes, which I have ridden for years, have 700c wheels: stock Trek 520, smallest size they had (17" or something? I don't remember), which I use for commuting, and on which I've done several short 50-70 mile-per-day loaded bike camping trips. Airborne Carpe Diem (titanium cyclocross/light touring), semi-custom in that their smallest stock size was 50 cm, and based on my body measurements, they made a frame for me in size 48 (which can be found -- with some difficulty -- as a stock size in other bikes). I've done many 100+ mile rides on the Airborne, often carrying very light loads.

It's perfectly possible that I just don't know what I'm missing , but I never wanted to fool with a non-standard wheel size, and everything that follows from that. And, of course, no two bodies are alike, and maybe the OP's only/best option is a full-on custom bike -- but I probably wouldn't start there.

(Toe overlap has never been an issue for me, by the way: we tiny folk tend to have commensurately tiny feet. I can make my toe touch the wheel, but only if my foot is all the way forward, and I have the wheel very sharply turned -- far more sharply than I would ever turn it at anything higher than nearly-stopped speed.)

mander

Now why the heck did they spec 74.5* seat tube angles on those fujis? looks like there's tons of room behind the tubes to slacken it out. short people need to get mad about too-steep seat tubes! IMO it is a (first world, admittedly) scandal that bike fit for wee folk is so screwed up so much of the time

Cheers to Vitus for doing it right.

hybridbkrdr

I'm not the expert on frame angles, but if you're correct, it might be a good thing for the Vitus because it uses 650b wheels which are now becoming a fad with mountain bikes. However, I noticed there are usually different angles for different sizes. So I don't know if they chose angles appropriate for shorter people.

Sixty Fiver

When we build touring bicycles in very small sizes we design them around 26 inch wheels, if you were next door I could arrange a ride on a custom built tourer as we do keep models in stock for such purposes.

Trying to cram 700 wheels in a conventional frame under 48 cm makes no sense, the performance from modern 26 inch wheels and high quality tyres is equal to that of road wheels and availability is not the problem it is with 650b.

hybridbkrdr

If that's the case, there is a 14 inch version of the Surly Troll and 42 and 46cm version of the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

There's some comments here on inseam and wheel size:
https://www.livestrong.com/article/24...d-for-a-child/

height and inseam chart:
https://www.gymboree.com/our_company/...34374306254240

sizing calculator (I find it recommends large sizes)
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/bikefit

So, this may mean 44cm or 45cm road bike or 14 inch mountain bike. This is guessing of course.

I'm vaguely wondering whether you'd be better off with a Redline Conquest with 24 inch wheels.

My guess is, if you wanted a Surly Long Haul Trucker, you may fit a 42cm better than a 46cm.

sparklebot

I am 5'2"....Maybe you're into made in America-(try Rivendell)....I mostly ride foreign stuff but I am from the land of Surly (and the dreamy Traveler's Check)

Bromptons can hold a lot relative to its size, plus it's all low to the ground. I traveled with a ultralight backpack set up on the Brompton. https://www.brompton.co.uk/extraordinary-journeys You can also couple a folding bike with a Burley Travoy trailer. I would look up Bike Packing... most people bring too much.

Japanese are really into bike touring (and are sometimes short in stature- now everyone there is tall!), you will find fanatics there and really high-quality builds. Look into a vintage Bridgestone or a new Rivendell, both by Grant Petersen.
I didn't get a chance, but there was a French-themed bike shop called Grand Bois I really wanted to see, because I am restoring two French bikes.- Speaking of which, a Mixte frame would be perfect. Both of my vintage Motobecanes have eyelets and braze-ons for everything, I have a Grand Touring and a Mixte- that looks exactly like this one:

And on another note, if you want to splurge on an uncommon tourer, look at have a look at the legendary Moulton: https://thebikeshow.net/the-moulton-story-part-one/

Good luck! Try a lot of bikes and don't forget to weight them down... just like you'd try on a back pack.

valygrl

What distance events are you planning? How much stuff do you have to carry?

I don't really understand why so many randonneurs seem to choose heavy bikes. It's not like you have to carry a ton of stuff, just a little.

Specialized, Scott and Trek make nice road bikes for short people. I'm 5'2", I ride a Scott CR1, size 47cm. my (fully loaded) touring bike is a Trek 520, 17", and it's too big.

The Surly LHT is similar to the Trek 520, in that it is bike built to carry a touring load - and as such it is ridiculously over-built and heavy for non-loaded riding. I would never never choose my 520 for a long ride if I didn't have to carry camping gear. I would put a light rack or seatpost trunk on my road bike. As a smaller person with likely a lower power output, you do have to consider weight of your equipment even more than bigger people, as it's a higher proportion of your total weight, and affects your watts/kg more.

Commodus

I think most randonneurs consider their bike in terms of the load required for the major events, 1000kms and up. The point of the shorter events is just training for the majors, after all.

Carbonfiberboy 

I dunno. The folks I ride with use the same gear for 1200 that they use for 400 and 600. Just a truck rack, or maybe a very light mounted rack with a rack bag. I see a few people with one pannier, but that's rare. What are you seeing up in BC? Weather's a little worse up there.

Commodus

I think the most common setup is a rack with an Arkel Tailrider and a handlebar bag up front...I could be wrong as I have hardly studied the matter, but from my recollections I think that's probably the favoured setup. Though large, rack-supported handlebar bags are also quite common, and becoming more so.

I'm certainly not arguing in favour of a touring bike, rather countering the notion that "many randonneurs seem to choose heavy bikes. It's not like you have to carry a ton of stuff, just a little."

unterhausen

very few randonneurs I ride with ride heavy bikes. There are a few LHT's, but I think that's just what people have. There is no reason for a heavy bike, especially for a small person. Sometimes I wish I had a little more carrying capacity than my large Ortlieb seat bag, but that's only when there is a huge temperature swing. I've never been on a 1000k or 1200k that didn't have drop bag service, but if I did I probably would finally mount my handlebar bag or get a Revelate expandable seat bag. There is no call for more than that. On PBP, a lot of people find that Loudiac isn't the best place to sleep, and would like to go further. Unfortunately, the drop bags are all at Loudiac. So it might make sense to have enough capacity to take clean clothes further down the road. But in the summer, that doesn't require much.