Getting to Cat 1 with 8 hours/week?
10-03-17, 02:19 PM
#101
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10-03-17, 02:59 PM
#103
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When I upgraded to a 1 I had to go through the regional coordinator, but that was a decade plus ago.
10-03-17, 03:32 PM
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Yeah Cat 1 upgrades go through CO.
As a side-note, for the record, yes @Ygduf & I got to cat 1 in the "easy" era where points didn't expire as quickly; but we both made it with points that were only about 6 months old.
As a side-note, for the record, yes @Ygduf & I got to cat 1 in the "easy" era where points didn't expire as quickly; but we both made it with points that were only about 6 months old.
10-03-17, 04:52 PM
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Yeah Cat 1 upgrades go through CO.
As a side-note, for the record, yes @Ygduf & I got to cat 1 in the "easy" era where points didn't expire as quickly; but we both made it with points that were only about 6 months old.
As a side-note, for the record, yes @Ygduf & I got to cat 1 in the "easy" era where points didn't expire as quickly; but we both made it with points that were only about 6 months old.
And, I did it during the first year of non-expiring points, but when they did the change to non-expiring they also increased the amount by 50% from 20-30 to upgrade. So I did <1 year on the increased number. I just had to race like 700 times.
10-03-17, 05:08 PM
#111
out walking the earth
RacerEx did. I got my 1 at 45 (I think), but admittedly I had started racing BMX as a kid, and road in 89 or 90. I took a pretty long layoff and came back at 37 or 38.
10-03-17, 05:51 PM
#112
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I know 60+ year olds that can hold their own in Cat 1 and if they decided to race a RR, or SR I'd have the money on them. They are not regular joes.
Most that can, do, long before that. Could they have is speculation, but I have little doubt, they just did before.
My mechanic - was a Cat 1 in his 20s, raced against Lance. Came out and did a TT at 45 in a way too small skin suit and it was stupid. Enough to make me sure my choice not to race was a good one.
On a similar, but different note riders can start mid 20s and make it to the top, but that is rare as most that can, did way before. But you have a few that are WC in another sport and switch and seem to make it to World Tour level in a few years.
Cat 1 is a somewhat recent common designation. It used to be (80s) more closely associated with the National pool. I would meet a Cat 1 very rarely. There were Cat 2s that became pros. Actually I think there still may be. The juniors typically do Cat 1 to get into a race, and until LUX decided to have an all Cat 1 team, I saw a lot of juniors just do the junior whatever thing, and then get on a devo team, or go to college. You need a Cat 3 to do junior nats, and they can grab more cash sandbagging. Most now are Cat 1, but that seems very recent. I was looking and could not verify Lance was ever a Cat 1. I got tired of looking, so someone can show I'm wrong.
10-03-17, 06:15 PM
#113
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There's a local master's racer here, mid to late 40s, just started racing again after a 25 year layoff. Started to race again this season. Part way through the year, he was #1 ranked Cat 3 in the nation on USAC (for what that's worth). Upgraded to 2. I bet he has enough points to be a cat 1. And yes, he too raced against Lance when he was a youngster.
10-03-17, 08:04 PM
#114
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You can always just yell at people and occasionally tell the guy next to you 'In Europe... (insert cycling elitist comment here)' and if they ask you if you raced in Europe just say, '****ing dopers, man'. They'll all just assume you're a 1.
They're also not going to have much sympathy if you're over 40. Half this forum is over 40 and many do well in open aged races. Age isn't really considered a disadvantage until like 50, and even then there are some fast 50 year olds. If there aren't a lot of Masters races in your area its going to be hard to cat up via p12 races though.
10-03-17, 08:34 PM
#115
Senior Member
Just remember, outside a small circle of riders no one really cares what category you are. Hell, we had a guy win Nats a few years ago and hardly anyone cared about that. If you're looking for prestige or attention do an Ironman. People eat that stuff up, even you suck at it.
You can always just yell at people and occasionally tell the guy next to you 'In Europe... (insert cycling elitist comment here)' and if they ask you if you raced in Europe just say, '****ing dopers, man'. They'll all just assume you're a 1.
They're also not going to have much sympathy if you're over 40. Half this forum is over 40 and many do well in open aged races. Age isn't really considered a disadvantage until like 50, and even then there are some fast 50 year olds. If there aren't a lot of Masters races in your area its going to be hard to cat up via p12 races though.
You can always just yell at people and occasionally tell the guy next to you 'In Europe... (insert cycling elitist comment here)' and if they ask you if you raced in Europe just say, '****ing dopers, man'. They'll all just assume you're a 1.
They're also not going to have much sympathy if you're over 40. Half this forum is over 40 and many do well in open aged races. Age isn't really considered a disadvantage until like 50, and even then there are some fast 50 year olds. If there aren't a lot of Masters races in your area its going to be hard to cat up via p12 races though.
10-04-17, 10:35 AM
#116
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I got there at 48. And I raced Lance as an old guy. Still waiting for them to move me up from 4th to 3rd at the 2010 Tour de Gruene.🤣
At that point I could hang in NRC crits. Which meant not getting dropped and perhaps moving up one position a lap.
I could win and be a factor in Local 1/2 crits. During that time most of my numbers squabbled between Cat 2 & Cat 3 on the E Wang chart. Which should tell you what being sneaky is worth.
I was no Steve Tilford. I raced against Michael Carter and Jamie Carney at the tour of Gila in the 40/50 and those guys were completely different animals. I had a great seat to watch real talent.
At 57 I can still hang in the local 1/2 crits, by hang I mean sit in the field and yell at people to chase the breaks harder...
At that point I could hang in NRC crits. Which meant not getting dropped and perhaps moving up one position a lap.
I could win and be a factor in Local 1/2 crits. During that time most of my numbers squabbled between Cat 2 & Cat 3 on the E Wang chart. Which should tell you what being sneaky is worth.
I was no Steve Tilford. I raced against Michael Carter and Jamie Carney at the tour of Gila in the 40/50 and those guys were completely different animals. I had a great seat to watch real talent.
At 57 I can still hang in the local 1/2 crits, by hang I mean sit in the field and yell at people to chase the breaks harder...
10-04-17, 11:53 AM
#117
fuggitivo solitario
I got there at 48. And I raced Lance as an old guy. Still waiting for them to move me up from 4th to 3rd at the 2010 Tour de Gruene.🤣
At that point I could hang in NRC crits. Which meant not getting dropped and perhaps moving up one position a lap.
I could win and be a factor in Local 1/2 crits. During that time most of my numbers squabbled between Cat 2 & Cat 3 on the E Wang chart. Which should tell you what being sneaky is worth.
I was no Steve Tilford. I raced against Michael Carter and Jamie Carney at the tour of Gila in the 40/50 and those guys were completely different animals. I had a great seat to watch real talent.
At 57 I can still hang in the local 1/2 crits, by hang I mean sit in the field and yell at people to chase the breaks harder...
At that point I could hang in NRC crits. Which meant not getting dropped and perhaps moving up one position a lap.
I could win and be a factor in Local 1/2 crits. During that time most of my numbers squabbled between Cat 2 & Cat 3 on the E Wang chart. Which should tell you what being sneaky is worth.
I was no Steve Tilford. I raced against Michael Carter and Jamie Carney at the tour of Gila in the 40/50 and those guys were completely different animals. I had a great seat to watch real talent.
At 57 I can still hang in the local 1/2 crits, by hang I mean sit in the field and yell at people to chase the breaks harder...
Young man, you have transcended the bounds of amateur category racing and reached bike racing nirvana. Your are now cat: herder.
Namaste
11-06-17, 11:40 AM
#118
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11-06-17, 02:36 PM
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Chris just wrote this. The audience is pretty broad. I do not agree his advice applies at the national championship level. He does not say who he is writing for, but for becoming a Cat 1 speed is thing that matters most.
https://trainright.com/how-long-shou...ining-ride-be/
https://trainright.com/how-long-shou...ining-ride-be/
11-07-17, 08:47 AM
#120
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Just depends on why you like to ride. About half of the time I head to Fiesta Island for a controlled, safe workout. Doing 6+ laps on a 4 mile track can get a bit monotonous. Still, when I head there I'm not thinking about riding for fun, I'm thinking about working out. I'm the kind of guy that likes to rep sets at the gym or swim laps at the pool or otherwise 'work out'. Does it offer a fun, recreational outlet? Maybe, in a sick kind of way 
Other times I ride for recreation, particularly in the form of weekend group rides and mountain biking. Does it offer a training benefit? Of course.
There isn't a black and white line here dividing riding for pleasure and fitness. Personally I've become more safety-oriented over the years and see myself slowly shying away from road racing and training in general. The trainer offers a logical alternative. I know of a few older racers that stick to TT only and drive to Fiesta Island and do 100% of their riding there. They're fast.
Other times I ride for recreation, particularly in the form of weekend group rides and mountain biking. Does it offer a training benefit? Of course.
There isn't a black and white line here dividing riding for pleasure and fitness. Personally I've become more safety-oriented over the years and see myself slowly shying away from road racing and training in general. The trainer offers a logical alternative. I know of a few older racers that stick to TT only and drive to Fiesta Island and do 100% of their riding there. They're fast.
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12-06-17, 12:46 PM
#121
commu*ist spy
Thread Starter
ok question:
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
12-06-17, 01:09 PM
#122
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ok question:
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
in before the "it's not the same"...
essentially, yes. it's not the same but outlined above is what I do. If I'm looking for a less taxing day or to work on just supermax efforts I will wait and contest sprints. If I want more threshold I will make a break happen and work in that. If I just want to "win" that day, or practice my own best-case race scenario I will make a break happen and then not work, to sprint from the break.
the group rides out here often have more bodies and wider range of ability than races, but the sharp end is still sharp and the above approach has worked for me. I'm probably sacrificing a little bit of pure training for a lot of fun, but without the fun I wouldn't be training or racing at all.
12-06-17, 01:43 PM
#123
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ok question:
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
how does introducing structure to a group ride work? do you have a set plan going into the ride like "ok, I'm going to put in a hard 5 minute effort in z4-5 and try to get in a breakaway. if someone follows, I'll switch between z3-4." or something? How would something like this differ from just doing 5 minute z4-5 intervals and ftp tests? aren't you tackling the same zones, just in different fashions?
what counts as having a structured schedule? are you basically finding out what needs to be worked on, whether it's the sprint, anaerobic, vo2, threshold, or endurance, and basically making a checklist of the things that needs to be done every week? Because if that's the case, it should be easy to gauge for yourself what needs to be worked on, and what's lacking.
If you are riding with specific goals, that may not work with what the rest of the group is trying to do. If your goal is to do 5 min at Z4-5, then do that. Don't just change to Z3-4 just cause someone else is there.
Yes, there are ways to use group rides to address your training needs, but if you have a specific training plan in mind, then the group ride is probably not the best avenue to achieve it.
12-06-17, 02:59 PM
#124
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Pretty much agree. You need to be cool with not having the optimal workout or you're gonna have a bad time and spoil the collective chi.
12-06-17, 03:35 PM
#125
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Group rides are largely reactive training (your power output is determined by other riders). I still think unless you have hundreds of races under your belt, pack riding is important and you can meet some goals by being the aggressor.