Paul Barnard

Louisiana allows a left turn on red onto a one way street. Take a look at this intersection. Would a rider be allowed by law to take a left on red onto Veterans at the red light where the two red vehicles are stopped? Veterans is a two way street, but at that location the lanes only flow one way, so the rider wouldn't have to cross a lane of traffic to turn onto Vets.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Veterans+Blvd,+Louisiana/@30.002946,-90.1507824,124m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8620afa2de514b21:0x1d15631b7fb14e14!8m2!3d30.0056752!4d-90.1972718!16s%2Fg%2F1hhkczphn?entry=ttu

bikelif3

Based on this I would say no:
https://axleaddict.com/safety/Obscur...e-is-no-excuse

Seems like the spirit of that law is more for "downtown" where you're traveling on a one-way street, come to a stop, and make a left onto a one-way street if it's clear.

The REAL reason I posted...I used to deliver pizza in that area, LOL. Did a quick street view, didn't recognize anything....

njkayaker

You have to provide a link to the actual text of the law that allows it.

https://lawyerdon.com/louisiana-traf...2Dway%20street.

https://wwwsp.dotd.la.gov/Inside_LaDO...ycle_Laws.aspx

Based on the above, yes, it's legal in LA. The basic principle is: if a driver is allowed to do it, a bicyclist is allowed to do it.

mr_bill

Wrong question. U-turn on Red permitted in Louisiana?

Why yes, yes it is.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

p.s. Only truck traffic and emergency vehicles are allowed on Veterans some of Mardi Gras day.

-mr. bill

GamblerGORD53

That is not a plain square intersection, so there's NO way it's go when you feel like it. Besides I see NO reason to be in the middle of those merge lanes to the left of cars. Those crosswalks are there for YOU. Even then it must be hell to ride between the thru lane and those never ending turn right lanes.
That's the craziest whackadoodle road design ever. LOL. I don't see how it can be anything but a demolition derby in heavy traffic. They have to angle across 3 lanes TWICE?? WTF.

work4bike

If a motor vehicle can lawfully make a left on red, then any cyclists, following the rules of the road, can make a left on red.



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Iride01 

Being at a sharp angle instead of 90° to the road you want to get on sort of makes it a pain to look back over your shoulder and assess the traffic conditions. But I'd think a cyclist would have a better view of things than those drivers in the red car.

So what's the beef? I'm assuming you already know the answer as to what the law says and are merely posing a situation and wanting to know what others think about it. The double right turn lanes whether 90° or the reverse of what you show are allowed to turn right after stopping and their traffic clear for entry.

Or perhaps I'm just not understanding the situation you set up.

work4bike

My city is starting to allow left turns on "Red" at traditional intersections. How they do this is to change all the Red Arrows to blinking Yellow Arrows at many of the intersections.



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FBinNY 

If I understand the question, I'd say no.

Left on red is about a typical crossroad situation.

This is more like a merge, with a traffic signal specifically to regulate flow. Since it's not a left turn, the law wouldn't apply.

work4bike

I think someone already mentioned the perfect way to characterize the turn in the OP's picture as not a typical left turn, but rather a U-turn, since these two roads are one way routes.

Schweinhund

I city ride, trails and streets are my element. I see that as a "dead right" intersection. You may be right, but you'll end up dead using that right.

Garthr

Looking at the street view I'd say it depends on what lane I'm in the U-turn area. If I'm in the left lane and stick to entering the left lane on Veteran's, AND there is no traffic from Vets that I'd be impeding or be in danger from, then I'd cautiously proceed. As always, head/eyes/ears on a swivel, so to speak. If I was in the right lane of the U-Turn area, then no, I'd have to wait. Or if I'm in the left lane and think I'm going to jump across both lanes on Vets to the far right, no. If there was no other traffic, then I would. It's really about using some intelligence here. Also, I don't know about the Police down there, but where I live they're quite approachable, but I live more in the country. If I have a road rule question and see a patrol car I'll waive and and raise my hand as if to ask a question. Or I've called the Highway Patrol many times asking about road situations.

Troul 

I'd be curious to know what a traffic enforcer in that area would state?

Can you forward your question to the city officials?

njkayaker

A left turn on red is explicitly allowed in LA at these kinds of intersections.

https://www.bikeforums.net/22965282-post4.html

Iride01 

Weird that they had to use the word "lawfully". So in Louisiana it's open season on anyone I want to run over if they aren't acting lawfully?

Calsun

What is legal and what is safe are by no means the same. Often I have gone across an intersection and then waited for the light to change to cross rather than being in the left turn lane and trying my luck. Getting a ticket is the least of my worries.

bikelif3

I still say no. I don't think this is a "uturn" or a "left turn". It is a front facing red light at the end of a very large median that should in itself be considered a street. You're basically going straight, not left, not a uturn. I used to drive in the area and can't remember anyone driving legally going through those red lights.

FBinNY 

As I said, I don't see a turn here, so any law referencing a turn wouldn't apply.

The whole question turns (no pun) whether this is a turn or a light controlling a straight flow into a merge. So, rather than argue the left on red law, let's focus on whether this is a turn or not.

I don't have a problem with disagreement on that point, and am happy to let judges in that jurisdiction decide.

FWIW there is only one possible direction to move at the light, so one may find guidance by wondering why it's there in the first place.

njkayaker

It's a "signalized U-turn". Post 4 quotes the LA law and highlights it in red.

There's a light on the straight road before merge. When that light is green, the U-turn light is red. It doesn't seem like anything to "wonder" about. The light also makes it "safe" to move to the right lane immediately (and to be able to make the right turn on the next street).

bikelif3

If it was a "signalized u-turn" cars would be stopped at the beginning of the median, not the end. The median should be considered a street. Let's say that curved median was a mile long. When at the end of the median are you still making a left or a u-turn? You're going straight....

njkayaker

Why? There's no reason not to allow cars to wait in the turn.

It's a U-turn and there's a signal on it. There's like even a sign:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.0028...8192?entry=ttu

??? The way that crosses the median is U shaped. You go that way, and you change directions. And there's a sign.

FBinNY 

I agree with the above. But what's the point of a green when the U light is red if folks are free to ignore that red.

As I said, the placement of the light and stop line where the ONLY option is straight implies (to me) that left on red doesn't apply.

But this is easy. We disagree, and both have made our opinions abundantly clear, so there's no point in argueing about it any farther. Folks are free to draw their conclusions with the understanding that those in certain areas may, one day, have to justify their interpretation to a judge.

In any case this is a bike forum, not a auto forum, so the real issue relates to safety and the question of merging across to the right lane after the merge. FWIW, while I believe that it wouldn't be legal, I'd proceed against the red (on a bike) if/ when I thought it safe to do so. But then, I have a very casual attitude about traffic lights.

bikelif3

Haha...didn't know there was a "U-turn" sign there. Anyway, traffic is confusing, that's why we don't have fully self-autonomous.

However, I still consider this a front-facing red.

njkayaker

It's illegal to "ignore the red".

The green light indicates that it's "safe" to go (you have the right of way).
The red light means you have to stop and you can go if there is no crossing traffic.

It's no different than a right on red.

It's a "signalized U-turn" and the LA law explicitly mentions it. It's not straight either. The stop bar is at a 45 degree angle. That is, you have to turn left after the light.

The quoted law isn't unclear. That's what I'm basing what I said on.