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NYC Bike Ticket worth fighting?

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NYC Bike Ticket worth fighting?

Old 01-29-19, 10:46 AM
  #26  
Ferdinand NYC
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Originally Posted by Oso Polar
This is so funny. My experience is very different - by and large pedestrians are the biggest problem in NYC and make driving a complete pain. They don't give a s..t about traffic lights, signs and rules, routinely cross streets on red lights and outside of crosswalks. I'd LOVE to see pedestrians get ticketed for their offenses - this will probably solve like 80% of traffic jams in Manhattan.

PS. In Bronx both pedestrians and drivers are crazy.
The vast majority of New Yorkers are pedestrians. Only a small fraction drive. If pedestrians make driving a pain, that is good thing. Driving in a city should be a pain, because city streets are for people. Cities came before cars, and are fundamentally unsuited to them. Drivers in a city must accommodate pedestrians, not the other way around.

The alarming regularity with which drivers break the law is downright scandalous. All drivers speed, turn without signalling, open their doors without looking, and blow stop signs; and when they deign to stop at red lights, they do so well ahead of the stopping line, sometimes within the crosswalk. They do all of this because lax enforcement has resulted in there being almost no chance of their getting caught.

What's more, even if a driver hits someone — even if a driver kills someone — that driver will face virtually no punishment. This is why a drastic reording of enforcement priorities is needed, so as to impress upon drivers their responsibility to behave according to the law and to exercise due care when operating their deadly machines around pedestrians.

We should have a national urban speed limit of 20 miles per hour, with blanket enforcement by means of cameras and sensors. (Ideally we should have automatic speed governors in cars that won't allow the vehicle to go any faster than the speed limit in the area where it is operating.) And we need police forces that understand the menace created by speeding and other driver misconduct, forces whose officers comprehend the vital importance of traffic enforcement and do not consider it low-status grunt work.

Most important, we need urban leadership that is prepared to hold drivers accountable, leadership that is willing to look these dangerous sociopaths squarely in the eye and say to them: you are the problem.
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Old 01-29-19, 11:52 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Oso Polar
this will probably solve like 80% of traffic jams in Manhattan.
93.2% of statistics you read on the Interwebs are made up.
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Old 01-29-19, 12:17 PM
  #28  
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I got a ticket for running a red light a couple years ago. I just paid it.
I was guilty, after all, and I actually stopped running red lights for a couple days after that. I wouldn't mind a serious crackdown on cyclist scoffllaws like myself, though it would be painful (and expensive in terms of time and money).
Unfortunately it often seems the police just give out a ticket here and there, and it doesn't make much difference to the cycling culture.

Originally Posted by Ferdinand NYC
The vast majority of New Yorkers are pedestrians. Only a small fraction drive. If pedestrians make driving a pain, that is good thing. Driving in a city should be a pain, because city streets are for people. Cities came before cars, and are fundamentally unsuited to them. Drivers in a city must accommodate pedestrians, not the other way around.

The alarming regularity with which drivers break the law is downright scandalous. All drivers speed, turn without signalling, open their doors without looking, and blow stop signs; and when they deign to stop at red lights, they do so well ahead of the stopping line, sometimes within the crosswalk. They do all of this because lax enforcement has resulted in there being almost no chance of their getting caught.

What's more, even if a driver hits someone — even if a driver kills someone — that driver will face virtually no punishment. This is why a drastic reording of enforcement priorities is needed, so as to impress upon drivers their responsibility to behave according to the law and to exercise due care when operating their deadly machines around pedestrians.

We should have a national urban speed limit of 20 miles per hour, with blanket enforcement by means of cameras and sensors. (Ideally we should have automatic speed governors in cars that won't allow the vehicle to go any faster than the speed limit in the area where it is operating.) And we need police forces that understand the menace created by speeding and other driver misconduct, forces whose officers comprehend the vital importance of traffic enforcement and do not consider it low-status grunt work.

Most important, we need urban leadership that is prepared to hold drivers accountable, leadership that is willing to look these dangerous sociopaths squarely in the eye and say to them: you are the problem.
Yup.
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Old 01-29-19, 01:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
+1. That sort of thing can set up a dangerous situation for pedestrians. I cannot tell you how many times in Philly I have choose between walking in front of a car blocking a crosswalk and risk exposing myself to cross traffic and walking behind the offending car, exposing myself to getting sandwiched between the two cars by an approaching, inattentive driver.
I too have taken to walking recently. Although I have noticed much the same as you from my automobile & my bicycle, as a pedestrian I find myself in a position to be combative about it.

When people "block the box" They find themselves unable to proceed on account of "some crazy guy with his dog." Who went when the walk signal said so. I don't generally do this when someone is activly running a red light. Neverthe less, the question: "Entitled, much?" seems to fall out of my mouth with startling regularity.

Last week while crossing an intersection, I knocked on the passenger side glass of an SUV and yelled "You're parked in the crosswalk!" to some very startled occupants.

Yesterday, I kicked a car that saw me in the crosswalk and went anyway. That lady wanted to fight. Old bag, I'm young (40), in the right, & smart enough to not actually get injured. Right makes might. Or, so says Abe Lincoln.

People get really mad when you slap their hood or their mirrors.

Sometimes, I yell, "Person!" directly at the driver when I have to stop because they are too busy not to pilot their vehicle through a group of people.

On company property a few weeks ago I stopped half-way through the crosswalk, made eye contact and made like I was going to use my umbrella to beat the windshield of a company vehicle that was driving clearly too fast (company property speed limit is 15.) I was in the right & wasn't going to get hit with out a fight.

Maybe a warning shot to an inattentive or entitled driver will instill fear of running over a pedestrian and change their behavior, but I doubt it. In any case, it would be hard for them to explain to a cop how they were wronged by a pedestrian acting in self defense. Don't get the wrong idea. I don't go looking for trouble & I am engaged with my surroundings enough to not get hit. I just refuse to cower to inconsiderate behavior by the entitled, inattentive & disconnected. No wrong should go unanswered and all that.

I DO NOT ride my bicycle in this manner.
Laws apply to us all. Pay the ticket.

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Old 01-29-19, 08:26 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Ferdinand NYC
We should have a national urban speed limit of 20 miles per hour, with blanket enforcement by means of cameras and sensors. (Ideally we should have automatic speed governors in cars that won't allow the vehicle to go any faster than the speed limit in the area where it is operating.) And we need police forces that understand the menace created by speeding and other driver misconduct, forces whose officers comprehend the vital importance of traffic enforcement and do not consider it low-status grunt work.

Most important, we need urban leadership that is prepared to hold drivers accountable, leadership that is willing to look these dangerous sociopaths squarely in the eye and say to them: you are the problem.
Shanghai has this utopian (dystopian) system of speed limits (30kph on most roads) and traffic cameras everywhere.

Nobody cares!

Violations will soon be linked to your social credit score.

Be careful what you wish for, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Old 01-29-19, 09:22 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Be careful what you wish for, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I know exactly what I'm wishing for: meaningful consequences for traffic violations, commensurate with the harm that they do. It's time to give a coddled privileged class a real incentive to follow the law.


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Old 01-30-19, 08:26 AM
  #32  
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I get NYC traffic law updates from a NYC traffic attorney I hired a few years back to help with an outrageous ticket. His firm was great & it was dismissed.

FYI: Vision Zero and You!

In 2014 Mayor DeBlasio instituted his “Vision Zero” initiative. The overall aim of the program is to eliminate all traffic deaths and serious injuries on NYC streets by 2024.
Today in NYC, approximately 4000 people are injured and more than 250 are killed each year in traffic crashes. On average, vehicles serious injure or kill a person in NYC every two hours according to the official Vision Zero website.
There have been many different policies enacted as part of Vision Zero, including the reduction of the unposted speed limit from 30mph to 25mph, and the implementation of speed cameras in many of the boroughs.
Perhaps one of the most noticeable Vision Zero policy has been the increased enforcement of offenses for failure to yield to pedestrians.
Failure to yield to pedestrian offenses are sometimes charged as “Failure to yield right of way” or “Failure to yield at turn” tickets. These are all being treated very seriously by both the NYPD and the NYS DMV traffic courts. Any motorist involved in a pedestrian knock-down incident will also have to attend a civil OATH (Office of Administrative Trials and Hearings) hearing in addition to possible traffic violations summons.
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Old 01-30-19, 06:04 PM
  #33  
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Which way were you traveling?
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Old 01-30-19, 07:41 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Ferdinand NYC
I know exactly what I'm wishing for: meaningful consequences for traffic violations, commensurate with the harm that they do. It's time to give a coddled privileged class a real incentive to follow the law.
Keep dreaming.

Most laws are a reaction by the state to a problem they can't solve. (often times these laws benefit the state more than the citizens)

The best solution for crowded cities is to ban private vehicles, it will happen eventually, until then we have useless laws.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts completely.
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Old 02-03-19, 11:52 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6
I get NYC traffic law updates from a NYC traffic attorney I hired a few years back to help with an outrageous ticket. His firm was great & it was dismissed.

FYI: Vision Zero and You!

In 2014 Mayor DeBlasio instituted his “Vision Zero” initiative. The overall aim of the program is to eliminate all traffic deaths and serious injuries on NYC streets by 2024.
Today in NYC, approximately 4000 people are injured and more than 250 are killed each year in traffic crashes. On average, vehicles serious injure or kill a person in NYC every two hours according to the official Vision Zero website.
There have been many different policies enacted as part of Vision Zero, including the reduction of the unposted speed limit from 30mph to 25mph, and the implementation of speed cameras in many of the boroughs.
Perhaps one of the most noticeable Vision Zero policy has been the increased enforcement of offenses for failure to yield to pedestrians.
Failure to yield to pedestrian offenses are sometimes charged as “Failure to yield right of way” or “Failure to yield at turn” tickets. These are all being treated very seriously by both the NYPD and the NYS DMV traffic courts. Any motorist involved in a pedestrian knock-down incident will also have to attend a civil OATH (Office of Administrative Trials and Hearings) hearing in addition to possible traffic violations summons.
I feel like in my case, Vision Zero just meant the police will try to play down the incidence. Last year, A commercial van opened the door in front of me while I was riding, causing my left shoulder to hit the door and my helmeted head to ram into the back of a USPS truck that was driving by. Ambulance and police came, where they asked me a few questions before I was taken away to the ER where they gave me the whole ER treatment along with scans everywhere. After countless attempt to retrieve the police report so I can go claim against the driver who door'd me, it turned out that none were filed. All that was filed was some sort of incidence report in which it specified that I swerved to avoid the door and flipped myself over... on a 45LB citibike. The driver's license wasn't even taken down, so I was stuck with this big medical bill.

I feel like maybe this is how all precincts tries to downplay incidences in order to bring down the statistics. I had a phone that disappeared from me, where I locked it, got a call, was to meet for it to be returned, tracked it and had it powered off with plenty of battery left "on his way to meet me", saw subsequent failed attempts at powering on due passcode requirement. Report it to the cops, where they insists it is a lost item instead of stolen item. Another time was when the basement window was kicked in twice within 10min of each other, only being saved by the 2nd pane of the dual pane window. Reported it to the cops, where they kept saying it looks like criminal mischief instead of attempted breaking and entering. Read some neighborhood forum later where many mentioned a spate of break-ins. Cops knew there were break-ins, but still trying to downplay it.
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Old 02-04-19, 08:33 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by tubesocksFred
police will try to ...
say no more, lawyer up! in my case, I paid a lawyer fee equal to the ticket but in the end, my record is clean & no ongoing fees from the insurance company. my cop was the nicest, my professional *-**** I ever met. he could have given me a break on the speedo but intentionally nailed me 21 mph over the posted speed limit intentionally causing a situation where I couldn't just pay from out of state, It required a mandatory driving competency hearing to see if I was capable of driving - forget what they call it. I think the Red Sox Stickers were the nails in the coffin ... they absolutely game the system to their favor & individual civilians don't stand a chance without informed, professional representation. in the end, 16 months later, no hearing, no court appearance(s) by me, ticket dismissed
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Old 02-12-19, 06:42 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by LPA
What happens if you just ignore the ticket and throw it out?
I'll tell you exactly.. not that I threw out my ticket, I just forgot about it. Got a letter in the mail that my drivers license had been suspended, and to reinstate, I had to pay the ticket, plus of course some hefty late penalty.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:19 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I'll tell you exactly.. not that I threw out my ticket, I just forgot about it. Got a letter in the mail that my drivers license had been suspended, and to reinstate, I had to pay the ticket, plus of course some hefty late penalty.
Thank you. And what if I don’t care that my drivers license is suspended because I do not drive? The next time my ID is due for renewal, would I be able to just get a regular resident ID?

I pleaded not guilty and the court date isn’t scheduled until 2020, which is crazy. Debating just not attending. Or if I do attend and have to pay a ridiculous fine, I might just not pay it. I really don’t see this process as legitimate or ethical, and if possible I would rather not participate in it. If the only hurt I will accrue consists of mail notifications and a suspended drivers license (which again, has no practical effect because I never drive anyway), then I will have no qualms about disregarding this entirely and living my life.
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Old 02-18-19, 02:33 PM
  #39  
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You could end up with a misdemeanor conviction. That might cause you trouble down the line, job search, bank loan, etc...

And as you are not the original poster, not sure what ticket you are referring to. So it’s hard to suggest paying as I’ve no idea what the fine is.



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Old 02-19-19, 03:29 PM
  #40  
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NYC folk: if you do get a ticket, look carefully at the fine. If you see a surcharge, you should go to court. Under the law, the $88 surcharge for traffic violations only applies to motorists, not cyclists.
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Old 02-19-19, 06:35 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Ferdinand NYC
I know exactly what I'm wishing for: meaningful consequences for traffic violations, commensurate with the harm that they do. It's time to give a coddled privileged class a real incentive to follow the law.
At first I thought you were coming on a little strong, but really I agree with just about everything you said.

The driving situation in the city has become insane, and one of the biggest factors has to be Uber (and similar "ride sharing" services). I drive in the outer-boroughs, and mostly ride in Manhattan, and in both circumstances the large majority of dangerous driving comes from the Uber guys. I never thought anyone could make the yellow cab drivers seem somewhat reasonable (they are still really bad, after all), but the Uber guys have managed to take it to the next level.

And, as Ferdinand mentioned, there is basically no recourse. There have actually been situations where I have to yell at passengers (staring at their phones, always) to say or do something about their driver's driving and behavior (because they are almost always confrontational, despite being 100% in the wrong in a situation). Of course nothing happens.

The state of affairs is truly appalling, and indeed if there were some real consequences we could possibly see some real change.

Also yes, the Cops leave a lot to be desired. As do many Citibike riders, who seem to think they are on their own little bike planet (many of whom look like tourists with the "It doesn't matter, since I'm not in my country" attitude).

Lastly, there are a lot of bad pedestrians as well. Just about every single day I have one walk out in front of me (on my bike) while I have the light. They will look right at you, and keep walking into your path, expecting you to alter corse. Needless to say, I usually don't hesitate to remind them who "has the light" in those situations.
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Old 09-20-19, 12:01 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
At first I thought you were coming on a little strong, but really I agree with just about everything you said.

The driving situation in the city has become insane, and one of the biggest factors has to be Uber (and similar "ride sharing" services). I drive in the outer-boroughs, and mostly ride in Manhattan, and in both circumstances the large majority of dangerous driving comes from the Uber guys. I never thought anyone could make the yellow cab drivers seem somewhat reasonable (they are still really bad, after all), but the Uber guys have managed to take it to the next level.

And, as Ferdinand mentioned, there is basically no recourse. There have actually been situations where I have to yell at passengers (staring at their phones, always) to say or do something about their driver's driving and behavior (because they are almost always confrontational, despite being 100% in the wrong in a situation). Of course nothing happens.

The state of affairs is truly appalling, and indeed if there were some real consequences we could possibly see some real change.

Also yes, the Cops leave a lot to be desired. As do many Citibike riders, who seem to think they are on their own little bike planet (many of whom look like tourists with the "It doesn't matter, since I'm not in my country" attitude).

Lastly, there are a lot of bad pedestrians as well. Just about every single day I have one walk out in front of me (on my bike) while I have the light. They will look right at you, and keep walking into your path, expecting you to alter corse. Needless to say, I usually don't hesitate to remind them who "has the light" in those situations.
Most pedestrians who absentmindedly wander into bike lanes probably don't live here or are new, since they could be severely injured - those who deliberately do so while looking right at you assuming you will go around are a different story
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Old 09-20-19, 10:30 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo
At first I thought you were coming on a little strong, but really I agree with just about everything you said.


The driving situation in the city has become insane, and one of the biggest factors has to be Uber (and similar "ride sharing" services). I drive in the outer-boroughs, and mostly ride in Manhattan, and in both circumstances the large majority of dangerous driving comes from the Uber guys. I never thought anyone could make the yellow cab drivers seem somewhat reasonable (they are still really bad, after all), but the Uber guys have managed to take it to the next level.


And, as Ferdinand mentioned, there is basically no recourse. There have actually been situations where I have to yell at passengers (staring at their phones, always) to say or do something about their driver's driving and behavior (because they are almost always confrontational, despite being 100% in the wrong in a situation). Of course nothing happens.


The state of affairs is truly appalling, and indeed if there were some real consequences we could possibly see some real change.


Also yes, the Cops leave a lot to be desired. As do many Citibike riders, who seem to think they are on their own little bike planet (many of whom look like tourists with the "It doesn't matter, since I'm not in my country" attitude).


Lastly, there are a lot of bad pedestrians as well. Just about every single day I have one walk out in front of me (on my bike) while I have the light. They will look right at you, and keep walking into your path, expecting you to alter corse. Needless to say, I usually don't hesitate to remind them who "has the light" in those situations.

I've had Uber driver do a sudden change of two lanes, from a driving lane, to a bus lane (which I was riding on), then onto a non-stopping lane, sideswiping my rear wheel from under me, causing me to tumble forward. Good thing it was a citibike and I was in a hurry, so I just picked up the bike and rode off to catch my train. Or when I usually go 50 or so feet down the wrong way in a one way street, in a cars off limit section with double white line so I can reach the bike dock, but these Uber SUVs deliberately crossing that double white line so they can get to the front of the light, and when I have to squeeze in that gap that is barely wider than the width of the handlebar and use my shoulder to straighten myself out against the truck opposite the SUV, the uber driver gives me the look of I don't doing something wrong.


As for pedestrians, I accept that they walk all over the place without seeing us, but the biggest grip is when I am crossing an intersection where the light is starting to turn red and the street has been cleared of vehicles, the flood of pedestrians will start crossing in front of me, looking like the closing of the red sea. I usually speed up to let them know I am not stopping for them, but there are always a few that will think I will, and I usually have to head more the center of the road, sometimes crossing the double yellow line in order to avoid those right to walkers.
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Old 09-26-19, 02:51 PM
  #44  
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Maybe drivers are a privileged class (in NYC anyway - though I don't know if you consider a guy driving a bread truck or a taxi privileged.)

But this class largely came into existence as a larger cultural project pushed by government and industry, and the same interests still exist - I don't know if car companies would sit on their hands while laws were modified to discourage driving

According to Gallup, over 83% of American adults drive "frequently", so US drivers are an absolutely massive "class"

On the other hand... according to a People for Bikes sponsored survey, less than 14% of Americans ride a bicycle 2 or more times a week, but over 50% would do so more often if they didn't fear cars & trucks

Last edited by bipedalconsumer; 09-26-19 at 02:52 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 09-27-19, 08:18 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bipedalconsumer
I don't know if car companies would sit on their hands while laws were modified to discourage driving

For this, and many other reasons, you're right; its an absurdity to think that driving will be made illegal in a mechanized society such as ours. In @Ferdinand NYC@'s defense, however, I think he was using hyperbole to make a serious point about motorists needing to be held to account for their driving habits.
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Old 09-27-19, 08:28 AM
  #46  
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Perhaps, although his point is well taken - drivers could indeed be criminalized for recklessness at much lower thresholds and far more often if there were a political impetus to actually rework the priority of streets for non-motorized use.

The problem is that there is not likely to be any such critical mass of political impetus any time soon, (other than at the margins, where a real impact often can be made)
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Old 09-27-19, 09:03 AM
  #47  
ChiroVette
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Originally Posted by bipedalconsumer
if there were a political impetus to actually rework the priority of streets for non-motorized use.
Well, lawmakers need to be aware of all factors, including the fact that motorists are, by far, the largest majority class of people who travel using a myriad of modes of transportation. That said, its a great time to be alive for cyclists and more green travelers. The streets are already evolving. An infrastructure of MUTs and bike paths have been increasing by incredibly prodigious rates. I live in Brooklyn, and I am blown away by how NY City has really made meaningful strides in this area for us. As a motorist also, I can really appreciate this, combined with the gradually lowered city speed limits. It used to be 35 MPH, then it was lowered to 30, and now its 25 MPH, augmented by a lot of the Vision Zero changes to the various roadways. I love that I can create cycling courses of 50, 60, even 80 miles in The Big Apple and there's a good chance that I can be on bike lanes, MUT's, and Greenways through well over 90% of the ride, in many cases.

A lot of what you guys are asking for is actually happening already. It just takes time. Its also necessary, given the many-fold increase in motorist traffic in the past few decades. I remember when I was a kid in the Seventies, it was comparatively rare for cyclists to be struck down. Part of it was because back then there was a fraction of the motorized vehicles on the roads compared to today. But, I think we are making amazing progress, both on the legislative level and on the infrastructure level, with massive projects such as BGI, and the various equivalent agencies the world over.
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Old 09-28-19, 01:45 PM
  #48  
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On the other hand, I was almost run into in the crosswalk by a CitiBike running a red yesterday
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